JFC-3: Ping Pong
- Thread starter Jet
- Start date
Really sorry guys, but my weekend turned out a lot busier than I expected. To top it off my internet has inexplicably borked, so I wouldn't be able to post the save anyway. I think I am regretfully going to have to ask for a skip.
Jet, if you have time today I'd go for it, and I'll try to pick it up later in the week.
Jet, if you have time today I'd go for it, and I'll try to pick it up later in the week.
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,431
1100
Adjusted tiles to work only improved tiles or at least forests. At risk to economic stability.
Momentarily hired max scientists (no tiles) in Macau to starve off the 1 unhappy pop there.
Turned up slider to finish CS in 1 turn.
Our spy disappeared last turnset, so we have no contacts.
1110
CS -> Paper
Mandalay Barracks -> LB
Scout hits the hut in NE Australia. We get a Warrior, which I delete.
Hancheng has built an Archer, apparently whipped.
1120
Scouts exploring the ruins of Pagan discover a cache of knowledge - 404
towards Machinery. We don't have the 138 
to go double or nothing.
Stability is -32 v (3 =, -7 =, -45 v, 4 v, -1 =)
Great Artist in Hangzhou. Revolt to Vassalage and start the emergency golden age, since we seem to have no choice.
Macau starves down and I restore its tiles.
1130
-24 (3, -7, -37, 4, -1)
Beijing LB - LB
1140
-13 (7, -1, -35, 4, -1)
Scout pops the hut on Java for another Warrior which I also delete.
There's a Combat I Japanese Trireme nearby. This turn I'm able to evade it, but it will be dicey. We have one more hut, in New Zealand.
Hangzhou Courthouse -> Trireme (1 of 2 for Beijing's Fish)
Hancheng has whipped a Worker.
1150
-12 (7, -1, -35, 4, -1)
Fushun Granary -> Courthouse
Beijing LB -> Trireme (2 of 2 for Beijing's Fish)
Macau LB -> LB
1160
-9 (7, -1, -32, 4, -1)
Surya has captured Lhasa!
Mandalay LB -> Catapult
IBT the Japanese Trireme comes out from behind a rock and bags our Galley, with the Scout in it.
1170
-8 (7, -1, -32, 5, -1)
Beijing Trireme -> WB
1180
-10 (7, -1, -32, 3, -1)
Macau LB -> LB
Hangzhou Trireme -> LB
1190
-11 (7, -1, -33, 5, -1)
Beijing WB -> resume Temple. I don't really want the Temple, but I don't want to lose the hammers.
Mandalay Catapult -> LB. I'm realizing we should leave Longbows in the southern cities and move their Axemen garrisons up North to use retaking Hancheng.
1200
-11 (7, -1, -33, 5, -1)
The barbs have retaken Lhasa.
Surya will now trade Machinery for Feudalism + Civil Service + Currency + 15.
A Chinese revolt takes place in Hancheng, injuring its garrison. Fushun is not under immediate threat, so I move all our units up to it.
I'm not sure whether the garrison will heal next turn, so I declare war on Hancheng and attack with the Longbow that still has a movement point. I give him Combat I to bump it from 98.7 to 99.7, and he takes out an Axeman.
And the real cliffhanger:
Our Machinery is at 414/2763 and he still won't take Alpha + Sailing + Aesthetics + Civil Service + Monotheism for it. He WILL declare on Surya for Alpha + Sailing + Aesthetics + Monotheism + 145. Since I want to leave this open (without also trading CS), and since I don't think a first contact gift by itself would really deter Genghis from attacking us, I don't give him one.
I don't know what we should do, but we have interesting options. No matter what, we should probably trade to Surya for Machinery. I do think we can fight off Genghis, with difficulty, but we could also bribe him to attack Surya. By itself, I'm not sure that would do much. It's hard to say how long the war would last. But if we declare too, we could get OB and mutual military with Genghis. That might be enough to deter an attack for a while.
We could conceivably take it a step farther by hitting Genghis with Confucian missionaries and revolting back to Paganism (or Pacifism; we have 87% Scientist in 1 turn in Macau). Apart from the anarchy and the various long term consequences, it would in the short term hit Macau, which is relying on FR for 2 happy. I think I'm leaning away from this, but it's worth considering.
Surya is also Tokugawa's worst enemy, but right now Tokugawa will still not talk to us, and declaring on Surya would give him and Surya a mutual military bonus. Right now they have -8 and -12 from heathen religion.
mushyman - skip
Jet - played
Quotey - up
pigswill - on deck
mushyman - hopefully back
Adjusted tiles to work only improved tiles or at least forests. At risk to economic stability.
Momentarily hired max scientists (no tiles) in Macau to starve off the 1 unhappy pop there.
Turned up slider to finish CS in 1 turn.
Our spy disappeared last turnset, so we have no contacts.
1110
CS -> Paper
Mandalay Barracks -> LB
Scout hits the hut in NE Australia. We get a Warrior, which I delete.
Hancheng has built an Archer, apparently whipped.
1120
Scouts exploring the ruins of Pagan discover a cache of knowledge - 404
towards Machinery. We don't have the 138 to go double or nothing.Stability is -32 v (3 =, -7 =, -45 v, 4 v, -1 =)
Great Artist in Hangzhou. Revolt to Vassalage and start the emergency golden age, since we seem to have no choice.
Macau starves down and I restore its tiles.
1130
-24 (3, -7, -37, 4, -1)
Beijing LB - LB
1140
-13 (7, -1, -35, 4, -1)
Scout pops the hut on Java for another Warrior which I also delete.
There's a Combat I Japanese Trireme nearby. This turn I'm able to evade it, but it will be dicey. We have one more hut, in New Zealand.Hangzhou Courthouse -> Trireme (1 of 2 for Beijing's Fish)
Hancheng has whipped a Worker.
1150
-12 (7, -1, -35, 4, -1)
Fushun Granary -> Courthouse
Beijing LB -> Trireme (2 of 2 for Beijing's Fish)
Macau LB -> LB
1160
-9 (7, -1, -32, 4, -1)
Surya has captured Lhasa!
Mandalay LB -> Catapult
IBT the Japanese Trireme comes out from behind a rock and bags our Galley, with the Scout in it.
1170
-8 (7, -1, -32, 5, -1)
Beijing Trireme -> WB
1180
-10 (7, -1, -32, 3, -1)
Macau LB -> LB
Hangzhou Trireme -> LB
1190
-11 (7, -1, -33, 5, -1)
Beijing WB -> resume Temple. I don't really want the Temple, but I don't want to lose the hammers.
Mandalay Catapult -> LB. I'm realizing we should leave Longbows in the southern cities and move their Axemen garrisons up North to use retaking Hancheng.
1200
-11 (7, -1, -33, 5, -1)
The barbs have retaken Lhasa.
Surya will now trade Machinery for Feudalism + Civil Service + Currency + 15.
A Chinese revolt takes place in Hancheng, injuring its garrison. Fushun is not under immediate threat, so I move all our units up to it.
I'm not sure whether the garrison will heal next turn, so I declare war on Hancheng and attack with the Longbow that still has a movement point. I give him Combat I to bump it from 98.7 to 99.7, and he takes out an Axeman.
And the real cliffhanger:
Our Machinery is at 414/2763 and he still won't take Alpha + Sailing + Aesthetics + Civil Service + Monotheism for it. He WILL declare on Surya for Alpha + Sailing + Aesthetics + Monotheism + 145. Since I want to leave this open (without also trading CS), and since I don't think a first contact gift by itself would really deter Genghis from attacking us, I don't give him one.
I don't know what we should do, but we have interesting options. No matter what, we should probably trade to Surya for Machinery. I do think we can fight off Genghis, with difficulty, but we could also bribe him to attack Surya. By itself, I'm not sure that would do much. It's hard to say how long the war would last. But if we declare too, we could get OB and mutual military with Genghis. That might be enough to deter an attack for a while.
We could conceivably take it a step farther by hitting Genghis with Confucian missionaries and revolting back to Paganism (or Pacifism; we have 87% Scientist in 1 turn in Macau). Apart from the anarchy and the various long term consequences, it would in the short term hit Macau, which is relying on FR for 2 happy. I think I'm leaning away from this, but it's worth considering.
Surya is also Tokugawa's worst enemy, but right now Tokugawa will still not talk to us, and declaring on Surya would give him and Surya a mutual military bonus. Right now they have -8 and -12 from heathen religion.
mushyman - skip
Jet - played
Quotey - up
pigswill - on deck
mushyman - hopefully back
pigswill
fly (one day)
I should be able to play the weekend but if Mushyman's available earlier (or Quotey appears) that's fine by me.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Got it.
Retake Hangcheng. Reinforce Beijing and Fushan.
Go for machinery trade with Sury.
Build units.
See what happens.
Retake Hangcheng. Reinforce Beijing and Fushan.
Go for machinery trade with Sury.
Build units.
See what happens.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Plan B:
Move everything into Beijing.
Collapse!
Survive Mongols.
Rebuild??
Move everything into Beijing.
Collapse!
Survive Mongols.
Rebuild??
pigswill
fly (one day)
In the end it was Plan A.
T0. Machinery trade with Sury. Upgrade some axes to maces.
T1.
GE pops in Macau.No idea what to do with him so send him to Beijing for later consideration.
Recapture Hancheng.
Beijing temple>CKN.
Macau >CKN.
T2.
Fushun CH>spear.
Stability improves to -4 (-32 econ).
T3.
Beijing CKN>cat.
Hangchou LB>cat.
Fushun spear>rax.
Give Toku CoL for peace treaty.
T4.
Paper>CS.
Last turn of Golden Age.
T5.
UoSankore bidl.
Gift mono to GK to try to improve his disposition to get open borders. Fails.
Beijing cat>forge (probably aqueduct next for health).
Mandalay cat> contemp.
Stability deteriorates to -24 (-45 econ).
T6
Fushun rax>contemp.
T7.
Hancheng cat>harbour.
T8.
Macau CKN>harbour.
T9.
Mongolia is annoyed.
T10.
Not much happening.
We've got a dozen units in Beijing and paying unit costs.
GK doesn't have enough on his hands (yet).
Demographics look ok:
Ahead in GNP and land.
So its a bit of a mystery that our economy officially sucks and we're heading rapidly towards collapse.
Good luck!
T0. Machinery trade with Sury. Upgrade some axes to maces.
T1.
GE pops in Macau.No idea what to do with him so send him to Beijing for later consideration.
Recapture Hancheng.
Beijing temple>CKN.
Macau >CKN.
T2.
Fushun CH>spear.
Stability improves to -4 (-32 econ).
T3.
Beijing CKN>cat.
Hangchou LB>cat.
Fushun spear>rax.
Give Toku CoL for peace treaty.
T4.
Paper>CS.
Last turn of Golden Age.
T5.
UoSankore bidl.
Gift mono to GK to try to improve his disposition to get open borders. Fails.
Beijing cat>forge (probably aqueduct next for health).
Mandalay cat> contemp.
Stability deteriorates to -24 (-45 econ).
T6
Fushun rax>contemp.
T7.
Hancheng cat>harbour.
T8.
Macau CKN>harbour.
T9.
Mongolia is annoyed.
T10.
Not much happening.
We've got a dozen units in Beijing and paying unit costs.
GK doesn't have enough on his hands (yet).
Demographics look ok:
Ahead in GNP and land.
So its a bit of a mystery that our economy officially sucks and we're heading rapidly towards collapse.
Good luck!
Lurker Comments
Your destabilization may be tied with your maitnence. Check your costs, build some Courts. That may help improve
As far as Mongolia is concerned, try to get them into a war with Tok. That may be enough to take some load off of you while you restabilize yourself.
Your destabilization may be tied with your maitnence. Check your costs, build some Courts. That may help improve
As far as Mongolia is concerned, try to get them into a war with Tok. That may be enough to take some load off of you while you restabilize yourself.
LukeUeda-Sarson
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2007
- Messages
- 341
You're quite a bit under the 60% barrier for approval rating as well, which can't be helping. So happiness generators might pay off well.
Cheers, Luke
Cheers, Luke
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
Economic collapse: I staved it off as India for 1000 years with shrines and religion until I can get my domination victory. That was monarch though. 
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,431
1300 toku is in war prep. No trade opportunities. We have 330 wealth but Education is a ways away. I suppose I'll keep a reserve for bribes or events, and we can spend it at the end if desired. Still going 0/100 although we're large enough for the benefit to be very small, I think. -34 v (5=, -1=, -53v, 6=, -4=)
1310 nothing (didn't check stability)
1320 Beijing Forge -> Walls
Fushun Temple -> Walls
-33= (6=, -1=, -53=, 6=, -4=)
Toku still in war prep but will take our Bananas for 6 GPT.
1330 Hangcheng Barracks -> resume Spearman
Mandalay Temple -> Worker
Toku has 400 wealth from somewhere and offers 365 for Machinery, 290 for Construction, 390 for Currency. Currency is already known by Surya and Genghis, so I sell it, for the full 390.
Check EPs. We can see everyone's demographics. We could go 100% on someone for a theft, but I leave it balanced, for defense. The power graph says: Japan 120%, us 100%, Surya and Genghis 60%.
-32 (7, -1, -53, 6, -4)
1340 Macau Harbor -> Hindu Monastery. Macau is our only Hindu city.
Hangcheng finish Spearman -> Walls.
9 Workers have improved all the Korean resources and are getting distributed: 3 to chop in the north, 5 around Beijing. 1 being built in Mandalay.
Same stability.
1350 Beijing Walls -> Settler. I want to put a production city in the mountains. It would be good for building Missionaries.
Hangzhou Harbor -> Walls (just in case, and reinforcements are a couple turns away.)
Same stability
1360 Fushun Walls -> Monastery (culture, stability)
Same stability.
1370 Macau goes independent. Send units from Beijing to retake it.
-36 (7, -1, -53, 1, -5)
1380 Mandalay Worker -> Maceman
Same stability.
1390 Japan asks us to cancel with Surya. We have OB and Pig for 1 GPT. I refuse. We can't afford to lose the OB. Toku goes from Cautious to Annoyed.
Hangcheng Walls -> Work Boat
Incense is hooked up.
Same stability.
1400 Macau has whipped a Worker.
-43 (7, -1, -60, 1, -5). The city loss gets you coming and going.
Japan has gotten Construction and Machinery.
1405 Beijing Settler -> Taoist Missionary.
Fushun Monastery -> Market
Macau has whipped an Archer. Bombard it from 60 to 28%
-42 (8, -1, -60, 1, -5)
1410 Hangzhou Walls -> Market
Settle Luoyang in the mountains. It's settled to get fewer hills, but the two cottageable flats in the middle. Courthouse first.
Retake Macau at a loss of one Catapult. Macau has Granary, Harbor, Market, Courthouse, but has lost Barracks, Monument, Library, Hindu Temple, Confucian Monastery, and in a cornucopia of suck, the Colosseum.
-39 (8, -1, -60, 4, -5)
1415 Beijing Taoist Missionary -> Taoist Missionary
Hangcheng Work Boat -> Monastery
Macau Maceman -> Monastery
Same stability.
1420 Fail to spread Taoism to Fushun.
Surya takes Lhasa again.
-40 (6, -1, -59, 4, -5).
1425 Beijing Taoist Missionary -> same.
Renegotiate Bananas to Toku from 6 GPT to 7. He's still in war prep. The other two are not.
-34 (6, -1, -59, 4, -5)
We're 15-20 turns from Education and we might as well finish it, but I think think we'll miss Liberalism. I think on Emperor it goes around the 1400s, give or take. After Education, I don't know.
pigswill, you're up if you'd like to keep playing. Might as well take as many turns as you feel like.
1310 nothing (didn't check stability)
1320 Beijing Forge -> Walls
Fushun Temple -> Walls
-33= (6=, -1=, -53=, 6=, -4=)
Toku still in war prep but will take our Bananas for 6 GPT.
1330 Hangcheng Barracks -> resume Spearman
Mandalay Temple -> Worker
Toku has 400 wealth from somewhere and offers 365 for Machinery, 290 for Construction, 390 for Currency. Currency is already known by Surya and Genghis, so I sell it, for the full 390.
Check EPs. We can see everyone's demographics. We could go 100% on someone for a theft, but I leave it balanced, for defense. The power graph says: Japan 120%, us 100%, Surya and Genghis 60%.
-32 (7, -1, -53, 6, -4)
1340 Macau Harbor -> Hindu Monastery. Macau is our only Hindu city.
Hangcheng finish Spearman -> Walls.
9 Workers have improved all the Korean resources and are getting distributed: 3 to chop in the north, 5 around Beijing. 1 being built in Mandalay.
Same stability.
1350 Beijing Walls -> Settler. I want to put a production city in the mountains. It would be good for building Missionaries.
Hangzhou Harbor -> Walls (just in case, and reinforcements are a couple turns away.)
Same stability
1360 Fushun Walls -> Monastery (culture, stability)
Same stability.
1370 Macau goes independent. Send units from Beijing to retake it.
-36 (7, -1, -53, 1, -5)
1380 Mandalay Worker -> Maceman
Same stability.
1390 Japan asks us to cancel with Surya. We have OB and Pig for 1 GPT. I refuse. We can't afford to lose the OB. Toku goes from Cautious to Annoyed.
Hangcheng Walls -> Work Boat
Incense is hooked up.
Same stability.
1400 Macau has whipped a Worker.
-43 (7, -1, -60, 1, -5). The city loss gets you coming and going.
Japan has gotten Construction and Machinery.
1405 Beijing Settler -> Taoist Missionary.
Fushun Monastery -> Market
Macau has whipped an Archer. Bombard it from 60 to 28%
-42 (8, -1, -60, 1, -5)
1410 Hangzhou Walls -> Market
Settle Luoyang in the mountains. It's settled to get fewer hills, but the two cottageable flats in the middle. Courthouse first.
Retake Macau at a loss of one Catapult. Macau has Granary, Harbor, Market, Courthouse, but has lost Barracks, Monument, Library, Hindu Temple, Confucian Monastery, and in a cornucopia of suck, the Colosseum.
-39 (8, -1, -60, 4, -5)
1415 Beijing Taoist Missionary -> Taoist Missionary
Hangcheng Work Boat -> Monastery
Macau Maceman -> Monastery
Same stability.
1420 Fail to spread Taoism to Fushun.
Surya takes Lhasa again.
-40 (6, -1, -59, 4, -5).
1425 Beijing Taoist Missionary -> same.
Renegotiate Bananas to Toku from 6 GPT to 7. He's still in war prep. The other two are not.
-34 (6, -1, -59, 4, -5)
We're 15-20 turns from Education and we might as well finish it, but I think think we'll miss Liberalism. I think on Emperor it goes around the 1400s, give or take. After Education, I don't know.
pigswill, you're up if you'd like to keep playing. Might as well take as many turns as you feel like.
LukeUeda-Sarson
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2007
- Messages
- 341
I must say the settler map is a bit hard on the Chinese, encouraging city revolts as it does in places that one would normayly regard as very much in the Chinese sphere of influence.
Cheers, Luke
Cheers, Luke
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
It's a pity that you lost the Colosseum. I think that "national" wonders that are converted into world wonders in RFC are lost that way sometimes, but the good thing is that when you conquer a city with the Colosseum, it counts as yours, and you get culture from it (like Rome in 600 AD). I can't say the same for Mt. Rushmore and Leaning Tower, but I've conquered the former which also gave culture, so i assume it's because there is a Mt. Rushmore as a national wonder in normal Civ4.
In general, my rule is: don't build wonders that you absolutely need in any city other than your capital and ones that you should not lose to instability or respawns. In emperor this counts especially.
In general, my rule is: don't build wonders that you absolutely need in any city other than your capital and ones that you should not lose to instability or respawns. In emperor this counts especially.
pigswill
fly (one day)
..we are likely to encounter some turbulence.
The Middle Kingdom in 1425.
The Middle Kingdom in 1510.
What happened? Read on.
1425.
Settle GE in Beijing.
1440.
Barbarians capture Lhasa (Khmer).
1455.
Mandalay declares independence.
1470.
GK demands CS. Agree (he was researching it anyway). We're collapsing.
1475.
Now we've collapsed
. Civil war breaks out 
. Lose all units in cities. Keep units between cities and in Beijing.
1480.
Khmer captures Luoyang (independent).
1490.
Capture Macau (independent). Lose cat and 2 maces.
1495.
Sury gives us Luoyang.
Trade paper to Sury for lit+70g.
Complete education. Notice we don't have philosophy. Decide that liberalism is a long way away at the moment. Decide we could probably do with some gunpowder units so start on gunpowder.
1510.
Recapture Hangzhou. Lose 2 ckns.
I didn't bother recording all our various builds and the slow improvement in our economy.
Our stability is decidedly odd:
And we had some power cuts:
So its a bit of a shame that GK and Tok both have enough on their hands
.
We need a hero. We're holding out for a hero. Who's up?
The Middle Kingdom in 1425.
The Middle Kingdom in 1510.
What happened? Read on.
1425.
Settle GE in Beijing.
1440.
Barbarians capture Lhasa (Khmer).
1455.
Mandalay declares independence.
1470.
GK demands CS. Agree (he was researching it anyway). We're collapsing.
1475.
Now we've collapsed
. Civil war breaks out . Lose all units in cities. Keep units between cities and in Beijing.1480.
Khmer captures Luoyang (independent).
1490.
Capture Macau (independent). Lose cat and 2 maces.
1495.
Sury gives us Luoyang.
Trade paper to Sury for lit+70g.
Complete education. Notice we don't have philosophy. Decide that liberalism is a long way away at the moment. Decide we could probably do with some gunpowder units so start on gunpowder.
1510.
Recapture Hangzhou. Lose 2 ckns.
I didn't bother recording all our various builds and the slow improvement in our economy.
Our stability is decidedly odd:
And we had some power cuts:
So its a bit of a shame that GK and Tok both have enough on their hands
.We need a hero. We're holding out for a hero. Who's up?
