[RD] JK Rowling and Explicit Transphobia

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Yes, I'm sure it will take some getting used to. You know what would make that process easier? Practicing. Like, say, with us.

OK. If it will make everyone happy I'll refer to him as him. I would hate to trigger Synsensa again. He/she/it or they might have a seizure.

Moderator Action: This is a Red Diamond thread. Any more snark like that and infractions will be forthcoming. ~ Arakhor
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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While it is reasonable to say that JKR cannot be held solely responsible for Trump's actions, it is also unreasonable to suggest that Trump is not largely guided by public opinion and media narrative. If all the discussion on the telly and online (including here) was about how we could ensure access for everyone, rather about who can be excluded, it is likely that Trump's actions would be different. As a prominent member of the twitterati JKR has to take some responsibility for this.

A large proportion of media narrative is anti-Trump. Sometimes for good reason, other times because they are also dishonest sensationalists. Trump hasn't demonstrated any pattern along the lines of "enact the policy of people who say they don't like him". Based on past behavior we should expect it's more likely he would spite such media than agree with their opinions and form policy they like.

When it comes to JKR, she called Trump a "giant orange twitter egg". It stretches past plausibility that he would hold her opinion on this or any other matter in any meaningful regard, given his ego. Like roughly as likely as him calling one of us up personally to ask for advice levels of implausible.
 
I'm the parent of a trans woman and as you might imagine I have pretty strong opinions on this topic. My daughter has told me she did not notice any gender dysphoria until her early teens, and it was many years before she was able to connect the dots and seek treatment. She finally felt safe enough to come out to us a little over a year ago. And though it took me a couple days to work through my own emotions about it there was never any question in my mind about either her sincerity, or my commitment to continue loving and supporting her.

Naturally, there were times in the ensuing weeks where I deadnamed or misgendered her. This was particularly tricky at the time because she was still in the early stages of hormone treatment and still appeared mostly male to me. But she has been very patient with me.

The results of her ongoing transition have been nothing short of astounding. She seems much happier. Definitely more open and communicative. Once struggling in school, she is now pulling straight As. It's been a very small price for me to pay to train myself to affirm her for who she is.
 
And you may think it is "hate speech" that is not harmless. I disagree. She's exercising free speech on her opinions and not calling for violence against anyone. But that is besides the point. The point is: what is the point of this thread? What do you want?

I really can't even begin to get into this with someone who introduced themselves to this thread pissing on the concept of trans outrage, but what I want is for people to shut their goddamn mouths about issues they have zero empathy for or understanding of. Maybe just shut the hell up, and listen. It wouldn't kill you.

If you must defend Rowling unpersoning people as "free speech," maybe free speech is a stupid illusion that only benefits privileged people.

Enough. I have seen enough, here and elsewhere, to conclude that this is the old prosecuted attempting to do their own campaign of prosecution. I cannot respect that, much less ever fall along with it. You lose an ally over these things. In fact I'm sure you lost many.

You aren't an "ally" if you revoke your allegiance over hurt feelings and a septic sense of propriety. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out: we don't need you, we've never needed you, and we shall prevail.
 
Because others are trying to intimidate me into doing something I don't entirely agree with.

People are literally only asking you to use the pronouns that your friend prefers.

You aren't being victimized and if you think you are you need to take a step back and reflect on why you feel that way.

It's not about agreeing with your friends decision, it's about supporting them. Its about putting aside your own beliefs.
 
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Oh, please... are you wishing her books forbidden? Perhaps big bonfires for all her books? Do you wish her imprisoned also? Without pen and paper, lest she write some more. Or just forbidden from speaking in public? Interned in an insane asylum? What?

Must I Goodwin the thread also to point out that this proclaiming "this author is harmful" is an imitation of those who said: these authors are "degenerated"?

Enough. I have seen enough, here and elsewhere, to conclude that this is the old prosecuted attempting to do their own campaign of prosecution. I cannot respect that, much less ever fall along with it. You lose an ally over these things. In fact I'm sure you lost many. Keep playing in your social media playground. The world will move on without you. If it doesn't move outright against you. You're playing with fire: the collapse of tolerance is bad for everyone and can be turned on anyone.

You must be more of an idiot than I thought. Who said anything about banning or burning her books? This thread is expressing concern about what she says online as an influential author. FFS.

And I think this thread conclusively proves that boomers and older Gen X just can't get it. Just ask them to bugger off and wait for them to die :dunno:

Moderator Action: Make your point without resorting to name calling please. This is an RD thread. Act accordingly. --LM
 
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You must be more of an idiot than I thought. Who said anything about banning or burning her books? This thread is expressing concern about what she says online as an influential author. FFS.

And I think this thread conclusively proves that boomers and older Gen X just can't get it. Just ask them to bugger off and wait for them to die :dunno:

Don't forget tactfully comparing us to the Nazis. Seriously.
 
This remeinds me, how people here were angry on Rowling when she criticised our politics with gypsies and mental disturbed.
I have hear that people were also angry on Navratilova when she said that trans competing in women’s sports would be cheating.
And I didnt like Innonimatu opinions because they were too leftist.
The evolution eats its own children:)
 
It appears so to you because you're a right-wing authoritarian and that's your perspective looking through as big a peephole as your mind can manage. Innonimatu has never been an ally of the modern left. He's for old-school class struggle (if even that) and, above all, parochialism. He doesn't understand concepts like intersectionality or how personal identity comes into play in class struggle.
 
People are literally only asking you to use the pronouns that your friend prefers.

You aren't being victimized and if you think you are you need to take a step back and reflect on why you feel that way.

It's not about agreeing with your friends decision, it's about supporting them. Its about putting aside your own beliefs.

Maybe you missed Synsensa's post, then.

Anyhow, it's not that big of a deal. It's just naturally going to elicit a less than favorable response from me.
 
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Maybe you missed Synsensa's post, then.

Would you prefer it if Synsensa coddled you? Perhaps if they didn't point out how your stance is potentially dehumanizing and problematic?

Would you prefer it if they didn't call you out?

The above might make you uncomfortable, but nowhere did he threaten or intimidate you, I just think you're not used to having your base assumptions challenged hence your little outburst earlier, well welcome to the real world buddy.

If your friend decides to decision, there's going to be a point where they'd be in the situation below:

P6Ou5zW.jpg


You can't possibly think is tenable, sensible or even safe.
 
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Well, the whole dysphoria thing came up suddenly a few months ago. I've known her for a couple of years and there was no mention, no inkling of it until recently. She says she "finally came to a realization" or something like that. However, it doesn't sound all that convincing to me. I'm still of the mind that I could possibly talk her out of it.

yes, great idea! why don't you also try talking people out of their depression, or out of their PTSD, or out of their phobias? Or out of their homosexuality! You could cure the gays, all of them!

after all, these people only need a brilliant, rational man like you to set their lives straight!

if you have some leftover time, do you think you could talk me out of my ADHD, maybe via PM?

looking forward to hearing from you!

Enough. I have seen enough, here and elsewhere, to conclude that this is the old prosecuted attempting to do their own campaign of prosecution. I cannot respect that, much less ever fall along with it. You lose an ally over these things. In fact I'm sure you lost many. Keep playing in your social media playground. The world will move on without you. If it doesn't move outright against you. You're playing with fire: the collapse of tolerance is bad for everyone and can be turned on anyone.

These are some talking points I expected from anyone but you. Rowling is obviously a hateful, malevolent hag who has made it her platform to **** on transpeoples entire existance.

Why is that worth your time to defend? You are talking about free speech, but has she faced legal consequences yet? Is she able to speak freely? That's what I thought.

I just really don't get why you'd choose this hill to die on. Is this some advanced whiteknighting? Do you personally have a problem with transpeople existing? I'm really genuinely curious, I've always known you as a smart, almost wise man, so this threw me off the rails.

so, in short: what are you trying to say, and why are you defending jk?
 
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What an absurd level of narcissistic arrogance you adhere to. Why would he have to prove himself to you before you give him the bare minimum of respect? He didn't tell you about it, therefore it's all a sham? He wants a partner, so why would he make his life more difficult by transitioning? (lmao) If he wants you to respect his identity, you say "Good riddance, now I don't have to go to the grocery store with you anymore"? What an ass thing to say. Everything in these posts just demonstrates how awful you are to people who don't fit your self-centered idea of what it is to be human.

"Talk her out of it"? Ridiculous.

I don't go "with" him to the grocery store. I drive across town when he calls asking for a favor and don't get any gas money for it. And that's probably doing a lot more tangible and measurable good for him than changing a pronoun will ever do.

Would you prefer it if Synsensa coddled you? Perhaps if they didn't point out how your stance is potentially dehumanizing and problematic?

Would you prefer it if they didn't call you out?

The above might make you uncomfortable, but nowhere did he threaten or intimidate you, I just think you're not used to having your base assumptions challenged, well welcome to the real world buddy.

Funny you should mention coddling. Coddle the deviant and chastise the normal I guess.
 
Oh lordy, I go away for a year and come check what's up with CivFanatics, where I used to go for nuanced takes on world politics etc., only to find that it's gone even deeper into tumblrification and become yet another Internet community that's become just a chapter of the cult of the woke, sporting their own little two minutes of hates and struggle sessions. Everyone must agree, disagreement is violence on BIPoC bodies in diverse spaces or some other dense jargon. The pathologising of opposing political views and cynical use of human rights speech to silence opposing viewpoints is truly sickening. It makes my stomach turn! To think that 10 years ago all of you were perfectly sane is truly heartbreaking. J.K Rowling being consumed by the woke crowd is just too good to be true, after all of her retconning her books to appease the contemporary mores of very Internet millenials, who interpret the world through ficticious worlds where the perpetually morally righteous good people do battle with the existential evil that does evil things as evil does.

Re-reading Timothy Snyder's On Tyranny, the woke hit almost all of the things Snyder says to avoid, lest your society succumbs into an authoritarian regime. The Internet is becoming a panopticon where the woke Stasi with their network of informants and useful idiots out people for supposed thought crimes that hurt the sensibilities of the current fancies, only to be cancelled themselves later when the tides of wokenomics changes at any give moment. And for what? Virtual virtue, Internet clout and the appearance of being on the "right side of history"™. The blatant whiggism of wokeism is hilarious, really. Any leftist should be very wary of how corporations are so eager to jump in on the aesthetics of woke protest. Why? Because they literally benefit from this divisive identity politics that just puts class analysis further away, and actively discourages coalition building where the base of political power potentially is: in the majority, and not the ever fine grained indentities the wokes sport, and their pet grievances. The working class is running away from the old left parties that have been assimilated into these new left sensibilities. Cui bono? Jeff Bezos! Bill Gates! All the neoliberal ghouls that suck the lifeblood of our societies benefit as long as the "left" wastes their time arguing about white man bad, or "you can't say *some of many words that would get me banned* because it hurts my feelings", from an ideological position that frequently asks the listener to shut up and suspend their disbelief and save the phenomenon like medieval scholastics. The language policing bit is perhaps the most hilarious part, as the woke position themselves as the perpetual victim, while they apparently have to power to create ersatz words and enforce their usage through corporate HR departments and Twitter cancellations or what ever. It's a purely non-revolutionary force growing on the side of neoliberal coprorations. It's in effect a neoliberal redemption cult, hiding the true origins of inequality and in a populist manner conjuring up scapegoats that are held up as the cause of societal ills, only tentatively pointing to the structure of our economy that creates these inequalities. Perhaps because many of the left liberal allies benefit from the status que, I don't know. Post something on Twitter about trans rights, and you know you're standing with Che Guevara or something, walking toward that city on a hill. While sipping tax-evading Starbuck's coffee and surfing the cyberspace with slave mined materials. And I'm a hypocrite too, I know I know, I have a cell phone too.

Not being able to disagree, not being able to ask the uncomfortable questions is where public discourse and indeed science goes to die. The woke with their moral certitude and scare tactics are killing the dynamism that once existed in society and in science. What are the questions and answers left unformulated that could lead to the next Copernican revolution, because to ask them offends the present day Catholic church of the woke? You know, the assertion that the Earth goes around the Sun was not only a factual repudiation of the Church's position, but also an assault on the morals of the Church. But of course, the woke have the true gnostic knowledge, they know they are right, because someone in a women's studies, or any other -studies department said so. To disagree is to be a Nazi. A weird sort of scientism. I thought postmodernism was about questioning knowledge creation itself? But I guess the woke have that taken care of too, they have the moral certitude of the truth of their positions, anyway. We are entering a period of woke Lysenkoism, where you can only provide answers that implicate the usual suspects: racism, white supremacy, misogyny, toxic masculinity etc. etc. To top it all off, many of the woke ask for multinational corporations to step in and police the language that is used online. Yeah, and they say they are "on the left". Excuse me!? You are literally secceeding political power to some unaccountable company, and you call yourself a "leftist". Yeah, your "leftism" is an aesthetic, because you want to be "on the right side of history", and Che Guevara t-shirts from GAP are hot A*! It's pretty hilarious to look at this row about J.K Rowling with a blackpilled detachment of as an able bodied privileged neurotypical white cis male body, because it's just playing out the ousting of the girondists. History truly repeats itself first as a tragedy and then as a farce.

If you want to cleanse yourself, here's some reading for you:


I think I'll check in a year how you people are doing, maybe. Maybe I'll ask: "are you ok? Are you well?"

Moderator Action: No one is required to participate in (or even read) threads that they find distasteful. They are however required to maintain common decency in them, particularly those flagged as RD threads. As such, you won't be asking anything in this thread again. ~ Arakhor
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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Would be nice if people here weren't reduced to enemies, without knowing the first thing about them. Gary is known as a very friendly person and long time member of the C&C community. Not everyone is your enemy just cause you want to project your own fears...

People can be very friendly and long time members and still hold some opinions that are ****** awful and dehumanizing. I think anyone who actively refuses to use proper pronouns is already being a major ***clown, on purpose, which makes it that much worse.

I think your "we should coddle people" approach doesn't really fly, at least not for me.

if someone I like, or someone I love, has some backwards ******* opinions, I set them straight. if I didn't, I would be a bad friend. always being honest is a duty, not an option. yes, you will often get a backlash from that. but if we stop being sincere, what are our friendships worth, then?

Not being able to disagree, not being able to ask the uncomfortable questions is where public discourse and indeed science goes to die.

who, pray tell, is being actively stopped from disagreeing or from asking questions?

by the way, I have read almost all of the links you posted. I have read every single thing Mark Fisher has published, I think. and now what?

should we just go back to saying "well, fudge IDpol, let's just act like transpeople aren't real?"

what is your actual, proposed solution?

throughout this entire thread, the only thing @Cloud_Strife and others have repedeatly advocated for is that people acknowledge their fudging existance, and let them use the shitter and refer to them by their correct pronouns. if that's too much for you, then I don't even know what to tell you. that is literally the bare minimum requirement for living a dignified life. if that is "IDPOL SJW CANCER" for you, then I think maybe, just maybe, it is YOU who is jaded, blackpilled, or whatever buzzword you currently prefer.

Because others are trying to intimidate me into doing something I don't entirely agree with.

you explicitly came into a thread about trans issues only to openly call someone by their wrong pronouns. stop playing this dumb ******* sharade, my man.
 
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