[RD] JK Rowling and Explicit Transphobia

[Samson]

Going from that to asserting a causal link is a pretty big leap though. It implies Trump would listen to/take advice from JKR's opinion to inform policy, and we certainly haven't seen much to make us believe that.

While it is reasonable to say that JKR cannot be held solely responsible for Trump's actions, it is also unreasonable to suggest that Trump is not largely guided by public opinion and media narrative. If all the discussion on the telly and online (including here) was about how we could ensure access for everyone, rather about who can be excluded, it is likely that Trump's actions would be different. As a prominent member of the twitterati JKR has to take some responsibility for this.

 

[Gorbles]

At the risk of sounding incredibly tactless, does Rowling have any actual influence on this topic beyond that of an internet ****posters retweeting some almost troll-grade comments?
In other words, famous person says something stupid. Is Kanye West waving around a MAGA hat claiming it gives him dragon powers mainstreaming Trumpism?
The only people I know who might care what Rowling has to say on a topic are already part of the super-woke/progressive crowd; or they already have their set beliefs and go searching for anything they can use for after the fact justification.

. . . yes? Of course she does. She's a well-known British author who's recently had multiple mainstream newspaper articles about how trans activists made her sad (for being transphobic, but that's not in the headlines). People talk about her here in the UK. This isn't some random minor thing.

That last line is really anecdotal, and almost sounds like a strawman. Maybe you just need to listen to more people, like some of the posters in this thread?

Edited for tone.

 

[Robo-Star]

While it is reasonable to say that JKR cannot be held solely responsible for Trump's actions, it is also unreasonable to suggest that Trump is not largely guided by public opinion and media narrative.

More or less reasonable than suggesting a man known for endlessly saying "fake news!" might largely not care for any media narrative beyond those he already agrees with, d'you think?

 

[Samson]

More or less reasonable than suggesting a man known for endlessly saying "fake news!" might largely not care for any media narrative beyond those he already agrees with, d'you think?

I think he has no real convictions of his own, and is just interested in giving some people what they want so that he gets in next time. Do you think he would be doing the choke hold thing without the media narrative that he does not like going on at the moment?

 

[Robo-Star]

I think he has no real convictions of his own, and is just interested in giving some people what they want so that he gets in next time.

Those people being rich white middle-aged British women? Public opinion hasn't exactly been on her side over this...

Do you think he would be doing the choke hold thing without the media narrative that he does not like going on at the moment?

He was bunkered in the White House last I looked, so...

 

[Ajidica]

Some basic research on your part would show that the rolling back was preceeded by what jk said.

????
Are you implying Rowling has influence over Trump administration policy? I doubt Trump knows who Rowling is, and Mike Pence -arguably the driver of the anti-trans legislation- probably thinks Rowling's books promote witchcraft and probably sticks her in the same "Hates Jesus" camp as trans people.

. . . yes? Of course she does. She's a well-known British author who's recently had multiple mainstream newspaper articles about how trans activists made her sad (for being transphobic, but that's not in the headlines). People talk about her here in the UK. This isn't some random minor thing.

I follow UK news relatively closely (look through BBC and Guardian almost daily) and I can't remember seeing anything about Rowling, except maybe something shoved in the back of the Entertainment section on really slow news days.
I'm not saying she isn't covered in UK press, but if we are going to talk about the underlying issue -the whole TERF viewpoint- might it be better to focus on the people who at least have some intellectual rigor to their viewpoints, like Germaine Greer, instead of a children's author who is just repeating things she heard elsewhere?

That last line is really anecdotal, and almost sounds like a strawman. Maybe you just need to listen to more people, like some of the posters in this thread?

Yes it is anecdotal. But ask yourself, how many people are thinking to themselves "I would treat trans people with dignity and respect, but a children's author said trans women aren't real women so I guess I'll go with that"?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

????
Are you implying Rowling has influence over Trump administration policy? I doubt Trump knows who Rowling is, and Mike Pence -arguably the driver of the anti-trans legislation- probably thinks Rowling's books promote witchcraft and probably sticks her in the same "Hates Jesus" camp as trans people.

I'm not implying that, what i'm getting at is that transphobic rhetoric and actions are being used to deny transpeople basic rights; being seen to by a doctor or being able to use a toilet, etc

 

[Ajidica]

I'm not implying that, what i'm getting at is that transphobic rhetoric and actions are being used to deny transpeople basic rights; being seen to by a doctor or being able to use a toilet, etc

Sure, but a UK author posting stupid stuff on Twitter feels pretty low down on the list of "sources of transphobic rhetoric that normalize discrimination toward trans people".
Of course, that is just me, a decidedly non-trans person, so I'll ask you: on a scale of "not at all" to "very", how much influence on trans acceptance and anti-trans policies do you assign to a British author posting stupid stuff on twitter?

 

[Synobun]

It is rather strange to describe Rowling as some second-rate nobody from a distant shore.

 

[Ajidica]

*shrug* Deathly Hallows came out over a decade ago, and the last one I liked almost two decades ago (Order of the Phoenix). Since then, she has done some vanity press work (I think) and become a professional stupid-tweeter.
Our general age group probably assigns her greater importance -especially those of us living outside the UK- than she deserves because so many of us grew up with Harry Potter books.
I'll grant she may have a larger influence in the UK than I am aware of, but for those living outside the UK and didn't grow up on Harry Potter, how many of those do you think even knows if Rowling even has opinions on trans people?

 

[Robo-Star]

*shrug* Deathly Hallows came out over a decade ago, and the last one I liked almost two decades ago (Order of the Phoenix). Since then, she has done some vanity press work (I think) and become a professional stupid-tweeter.

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them...

 

[Synobun]

The Harry Potter series has been bought by over 400 million people, or 5% of the planet's population. Read by likely twice that number, if not more. Not only read and bought, but worshipped. Of course people will care about what she has to say about things. Basic human psychology. She has an enormous platform and humans tend to assign author virtue (or lack thereof) to their work, and vice versa. She speaks and people will listen, if only due to the inertia of being able to broadcast her message to millions of people within minutes.

 

[Ajidica]

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them...

Was that a book? I thought it was just a movie.

The Harry Potter series has been bought by over 400 million people, or 5% of the planet's population. Read by likely twice that number, if not more. Not only read and bought, but worshipped. Of course people will care about what she has to say about things. Basic human psychology. She has an enormous platform and humans tend to assign author virtue (or lack thereof) to their work, and vice versa. She speaks and people will listen, if only due to the inertia of being able to broadcast her message to millions of people within minutes.

But do people actually follow what she says, in that they will internalize her views? All I see is people talking about how her views on this are bad and stupid. I'm not seeing anyone endorsing her views outside of the Usual Suspects, who assuredly had those views before Rowling thought to express them and will continue to have them long after.

 

[Robo-Star]

Was that a book? I thought it was just a movie.

Does it matter? I thought it was just her celebrity you were questioning.

 

[Yeekim]

So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe. When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside. That is the simple truth.

Her insistence that in allowing transwomen into women's spaces you are essentially letting men in is, what i personally believe, an instance of her mask slipping and her showing us all what we truly thinks of transwomen, not to mention this telling passage:

The quoted part seems to be "the best kind of correct - technically correct".
However, the way I read it she seems to be "afraid" not of actual transwomen, but of men (who she apparently thinks would frivolously pretend/claim to be transwomen, only for the privilege(?) to enter womens' bathroom/changing room).
Whether that threat is greater or lesser than that of actual transpeople suffering violence for choosing "wrong" bathroom, I can not know; one would certainly have to be quite unhinged to contemplate either.
Anyway, aren't bathrooms supposed to be segregated by sex rather than by gender? It's "unisex", not "unigender", no?

 

[El_Machinae]

If you don't think that Rowling has a dear place in people's hearts, you're just not paying attention.

She has a comeback story with her success, she delighted the imaginations of millions, she has literally made millions of people cry. She was well known for being a billionaire who stopped being a billionaire because of charity. She has often lent her voice to progressive causes.

As far as celebrities go, she has a lot of social capital. I was surprised to see her expend some of it on this topic, and it makes a lot of sense that some people were concerned to see her expend it

I have a different story regarding her view on this topic, because it first came to my attention as someone literally deconstructed how Hermione was called a "she" even when she was polymorphed into having testicles. So the successful counterpunch to Rowling's opinion was shown to me at the same time I was exposed to her opinion.

I daresay I cannot think of another fiction author that has as much social capital as she does. And the ones that do are not commonly known. Like, the writers of The Good Place are geniuses, but ask someone to name a book regarding that show, and they will point you towards a philosophy book

 

[Robo-Star]

I have a different story regarding her view on this topic, because it first came to my attention as someone literally deconstructed how Hermione was called a "she" even when she was polymorphed into having testicles. So the successful counterpunch to Rowling's opinion was shown to me at the same time I was exposed to her opinion.

Is that counterpunch published online?

 

[Crezth]

But do people actually follow what she says, in that they will internalize her views? All I see is people talking about how her views on this are bad and stupid. I'm not seeing anyone endorsing her views outside of the Usual Suspects, who assuredly had those views before Rowling thought to express them and will continue to have them long after.

What is the point of this? Are you asking if anyone has ever been influenced by anyone else ever in the history of forever?

I mean good for you you’ve curated your social circle enough that you only see good takes on Rowling’s nonsense. But there is absolutely a contingent of people who might not have been convinced one way or the other who are drawn to Rowling’s opinion solely because it is hers. People who used to be ambivalent now have a reason to care in the form of vicariously sharing Rowling’s view. This is not to mention that her views can encourage other activists who share her disposition to ramp up their activism.

You should have no reason to assume her hate speech is harmless.

 

[Synobun]

Is that counterpunch published online?

It's on Twitter, somewhere, but their search is horrible. I'll give it a go, though.

Found it: https://twitter.com/qpheevr/status/1269637114297298946

 

[El_Machinae]

Is that counterpunch published online?

I saw it just as descriptive text.