Jordan Peterson

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Ever been to a major sporting event? Ever noticed that the conservatives didn't get their panties in a bunch over all the people who choose the national anthem as a good time to grab a snack at the snack bar? Ever notice that the conservatives didn't get their panties in a bunch over all the people who figure the national anthem is played before the game starts so they have time to duck in a restroom and take a crap? Ever notice that the conservatives didn't get their panties in a bunch over all the people who sit through the national anthem reading their program, talking to their date, picking their noses, and whatever else crosses their minds to do?
I mean, these are the same people who buy American flag pattern folding chairs and American flag napkins. If respect for proper Flag Protocol was really at the forefront of their minds, I would expect them to be grumpier about someone getting out an American flag napkin, wiping the ketchup off their face, then throwing it away. That seems far more disrespectful both to actual flag protocol and the ideals represented in the flag than respectfully registering protest.
 
Are we really back to the flag thing, it’s one of the more overt forms of conservative racism. @Mouthwash I suggest picking a new champion
 
Whatever the case may be, I'm curious to what exactly is wrong with the logic of opposing a 50/50 goal.
Back in 2015, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made a point of having a cabinet that had 15 women and 15 men. When asked why, his answer was "Because it's 2015."

He's been mocked unmercifully ever since, by the Reformacons and anyone else who doesn't think equality matters. It's actually rather funny, given that they consider themselves the inheritors of the old Progressive Conservative Party (actually they stole it) and that party went down in flames in 1993 when it went from a majority to a mere TWO members: one man and one woman.

So every time these right-wingers grouch on the comment boards on CBC.ca about how Trudeau included so many women in his cabinet and say that 50/50 means that half of the cabinet only got their jobs because of their sex and not their abilities, I remind them that Trudeau could have made the cabinet 100% women if he'd wanted, and did they really mean to suggest that some of the male cabinet members only got their jobs because they're male and not because they have the ability to carry out the required duties?
 
He did a tour of basically every Australian media outlet, I don't think it's his opponents who are the ones publicising him.

Interesting, I guess he's found a new source of income for his retirement fund
 
Okay, can we agree that this is maybe a teeny bit disingenuous?
 
I appreciate the logic of what you are saying @aelf . But I think there’s more reason to believe his bridge allows greater reversion to the mean than radicalizes people. Meanwhile, there’s so much I’ve wanted to say this past month on this subject but people have already answered the call to arms.

All aged folks are going to have really cool and really dumb things baked into their speech. To not be able to tell which is which would then demand making a judgment based on association and synthesis. That is not knowledge. But it is clearly motivating peoples’ claims.

If you can’t tell when Jordan Peterson is saying something of value and when he’s tripping, I guess it would be the safe option to reject him entirely.

The thing is, everyone has value, and everyone sometimes (or often) be tripping. There’s no value in playing it safe like that unless your goal is social acceptance. If everything someone says is good then you’re lying to yourself through ignorance or otherwise.

So no one can fit the black and white criteria. And I’m sad that this corner of the Internet finds more joy in surrendering JP to those who would divide us than neutralizing him politically by accepting where he offers value to any individual seeking to live a good life.
 
It should tell one something, when even a basic thinker like Peterson can latch onto an issue and say something half-sensible. Cause it means that the current atmosphere of endless trolling and poor argument allows even for such uninteresting thinkers to rise to prominence.
I did some research on this Jordan Peterson, and here is one of the first articles which came up: The Intellectual We Deserve. The most interesting point is at the very beginning:
Jordan Peterson’s popularity is the sign of a deeply impoverished political and intellectual landscape…
But how popular is he in the West? I obviously can't tell because I live in Russia, and people here don't casually read in English. :D

Also, I stumbled upon this article because I generally follow English-language news, and this stood out to me:
But Trump and Kanye speak the language of emotion and sides; in American culture, that has become the dominant tongue. They communicate in the nebulous, hackneyed jargon of fortune cookies, astrologers and self-help gurus. It all brings to mind the grand conceit of a magic act: A magician can only trick an audience if it is willing to make itself complicit. If we want to be fooled, inanity and incoherence look like magic.
It's funny because this article described ostensibly American reality, but the same exact words can be applied to our "president" and celebrities, too! The world is a small place.
 
Soft-core Holocaust denial is suggesting that things like Holocaust day or Holocaust education aren't necessary because just as many other people died somewhere else.
While I don't think Holocaust denial is cool, it is definitely the single most talked about genocide in the world. Russia is a pretty antisemitic country, and even we learn about it. At the same time, most people in Russia would not know about the Armenian Genocide or the Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II of Belgium). I only know about these because I read English-language sources. Similarly, there is a debate whether the extermination of Native Americans or American slavery can be classified as genocide, since people of the same race/ethnic group were systemically exterminated/killed.

Jews definitely suffered throughout the history, but they are not the only ones who suffered at the hands of Europeans. :)

Oh yes, not wanting others to disrespect your nation's flag is definitely caused by hating black people.
Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I am gathering the problem is that African Americans get scolded for small things, while white Americans can get away with pretty much anything. Like this, for example:

dylann-roof-flag.jpg
 
Interesting, I guess he's found a new source of income for his retirement fund

There's actually a bit of a cottage industry of washed up foreign far-right culture warriors managing to do the media rounds here and be treated with credulity. Lord Mockton, that O'Neill guy from Spiked, Milo Yanopolis. They all come over here and manage to get in all the newspapers and breakfast TV shows.
 
I did some research on this Jordan Peterson, and here is one of the first articles which came up: The Intellectual We Deserve.

Which isn't very honest or thorough: https://www.americanthinker.com/art...driving_his_critics_to_desperate_attacks.html

While I don't think Holocaust denial is cool, it is definitely the single most talked about genocide in the world. Russia is a pretty antisemitic country, and even we learn about it. At the same time, most people in Russia would not know about the Armenian Genocide or the Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II of Belgium). I only know about these because I read English-language sources. Similarly, there is a debate whether the extermination of Native Americans or American slavery can be classified as genocide, since people of the same race/ethnic group were systemically exterminated/killed.

There's a difference between arguing that other genocides have been underrepresented and arguing that the Shoah is just 'one of them' and doesn't deserve any special treatment (at least in a European/Jewish context, I don't blame Africans or Chinese for not grasping its significance).

Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I am gathering the problem is that African Americans get scolded for small things, while white Americans can get away with pretty much anything. Like this, for example:

dylann-roof-flag.jpg

And you think no black people ever burned the flag before 2016? The problem was that they were using their huge audiences to broadcast their disrespect.
 
So you think this is racist against Scots-Irish? Because I don't see how judging the behaviors of various cultural, ethnic and ancestral groups based on their origins is okay unless it's applied to black people.
Now, see, I've actually read Albion's Seed, and a certain amount of subsequent commentary on it, so there's a real temptation to go off and a tangent with this one, but I'll constrain myself to saying: no, and that's a terrible analogy on like five different levels, the most important of which is, Fischer is writing as a scholar, and you're not.

If you'd read Fischer's book, and I'm going to go out on the very wildest of limbs and assume that you haven't, you'd understand that Fischer is not in the business of drawing moral judgements, or prescribing remedies. He's a historian, his business is to describe and explain. When he discuses the family structures of the Backcountry, he simply describes them as best he can based on the available evidence, and tries to explain their longer-term impact on the shape of American culture. His task is to present the assumptions, values and aspirations of this culture honestly, even when he clearly departs from those values. He doesn't draw your grotesquely patronising conclusion that their culture was "bad" and needed to be "improved". He treats his subject as humans beings worth understanding, not as problems to be solved. To the extent he fails to do so, that is bad scholarship to which he should be held to account, whereas for you, these sorts of condescending moral lessons are the whole point, the very premise of the exercise.

If you want to defend yourself by drawing a comparison to scholarship, you're going to have to start holding yourself to scholarly standards. If that seems like a big ask for an internet forum, well, don't draw the comparison in the first place.

Wait, I've just noticed this. Does bowlcut not realise that "Gold" is an Americanisation of Joe Gold's original family name, "Goldglejt"?

Christ, but Nazis are stupid.
 
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Oh yes, not wanting others to disrespect your nation's flag is definitely caused by hating black people.

When the "others" whose "disrespect" you complain about just happen to all be black, and whose "disrespect" is intended to raise awareness of issues disproportionately negatively affecting Black people, then yes, of course it's racist.

Having a pretext to cover for racist beliefs or opinions doesn't make them any less racist. You don't have to examine the backlash to those protests very closely to see that the whole "respect the flag" argument is just pretext BS to cover for racism.
 
When the "others" whose "disrespect" you complain about just happen to all be black, and whose "disrespect" is intended to raise awareness of issues disproportionately negatively affecting Black people, then yes, of course it's racist.
If they were mooning the flag, it'd be one thing, but since when is kneeling disrespectful? It is, kind of, the exact opposite.:crazyeye:
 
If they were mooning the flag, it'd be one thing, but since when is kneeling disrespectful? It is, kind of, the exact opposite.:crazyeye:
If they were white, they could poop on the flag, set it on fire and toss it into a sewage processing pool and people would say "oh, they're just exercising their freedom of expression"
 
He doesn't draw your grotesquely patronising conclusion that their culture was "bad" and needed to be "improved".

And when have I made that conclusion? You accused the right of using "culture" as a dog-whistle for racism, so I just pointed out that, no, they really aren't.

Certain aspects of black culture have devastated the economic and social life of many black communities. That is not the same as treating black culture as a problem to be solved.

When the "others" whose "disrespect" you complain about just happen to all be black, and whose "disrespect" is intended to raise awareness of issues disproportionately negatively affecting Black people, then yes, of course it's racist.

Blue portion kind of undermines the red, no? If it's a movement based upon black issues/identity, of course it's going to be mostly black people doing it. Are others not allowed to criticize the manner in which they're bringing attention to their cause? If so, then I'm not sure why Gentiles ought to have any say about Zionism.

Their behavior feeds racism, not the other way around. The central claim made by white nationalists is that blacks can't be integrated into the United States, and will always be essentially strangers there (there's a reason why Malcolm X was liked by Nazis).

You don't have to examine the backlash to those protests very closely to see that the whole "respect the flag" argument is just pretext BS to cover for racism.

I would be pretty pissed off if some Jew of Middle Eastern origin disrespected the Israeli flag based on perceived ill treatment by the state (speaking as a Jew of Middle Eastern origin). Why assume that Americans aren't acting in good faith?

If they were white, they could poop on the flag, set it on fire and toss it into a sewage processing pool and people would say "oh, they're just exercising their freedom of expression"

If you don't realize how nuts conservatives would go if a white news anchor burned the American flag on live TV, then there is no rhyme or reason left in your mind.
 
If you don't realize how nuts conservatives would go if a white news anchor burned the American flag on live TV, then there is no rhyme or reason left in your mind.

If it was Hannity they would be parroting whatever point he had "proven" by the behavior, guaranteed.
 
If you don't realize how nuts conservatives would go if a white news anchor burned the American flag on live TV, then there is no rhyme or reason left in your mind.
Pfffft! I've never had either. It's much more fun this way!:mischief:
Edit: Come to think of it; The world has neither rhyme nor reason, so why should i?
 
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If it was Hannity they would be parroting whatever point he had "proven" by the behavior, guaranteed.

If Noam Chomsky supported intervention in Syria you can bet every anarchist in America would be as well.
 
If Noam Chomsky supported intervention in Syria you can bet every anarchist in America would be as well.

So, when your ridiculous claim is repudiated you just move on to something totally unrelated. Good to know.
 
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