[LP] Leader Pass Pack 1: Great Negotiators (Nov. 2022) - Patch Notes Discussion

[Duke William of Normandy]

Gonna have to go General Sherman on their butts.

Bring the good old bugles, boys, we'll sing another song!

Sing it with the spirit that will start the world along!

 

[King William I]

Firaxis: Calls Pack 1 'Great Negotioators'

Also Firaxis: All leaders added are best at Dominations Victories.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

So... that's the controversial ability for Lincoln? The one they said that might be too powerful or too detrimental? I mean, sure, loosing Amenities from not building plantations can be quite restraining at the beginning, but nothing in it screams "controversial" as they pointed out and insisted on during the livestream. At least, it represents quite well the divide between the rural south and the industrialized north, so, kudos for abstraction.

Mbande Nzinga seems underwhelming, and I'm not sure about the "on your continent/not on your continent" stuff. Do we agree that "home continent" means "the continent upon which the capital has been settled" ? What happens if the capital is taken by another civilization and all the other cities of this civ are on another continent ? Does the bonus still work for them? Also, how is Dido factoring into all of it? Edit: if the screenshot ability is the true one, that's even more underwhelming. At least with trade routes and combat strength, you had some agency over it. There, it's just Lady Six Skies but for a continent, and no interaction whatsoever with the rest. At least, with Trade Routes, the "negotiators" part would make sense... but there?

Sultan Saladin is so "meh" that noone even talked about it yet (when I was writing this comment; everything goes so fast that now some people gave their opinion ^^). Some of the most forgettable abilities and, myself being a pacifist, I have absolutely no idea if it's powerful. Well, I guess I'll stay with Righteous Saladin until the end and barely touch Sultan Saladin...


What strikes me as odd is how little those LUA synergize with their CUA.
Granted, none of Teddy's abilities synergized with Founding Fathers, but a leader marketed as "Great Negotiator" would definitely be perfect to have a synergy with the additional Diplomatic Favor generated from them.
The only link between Mbande Nzinga and Nkisi is that trade routes will synergize with the +50% Great Merchant points generation, but apart from that? Her being able to found a religion will just make Nkisi even more powerful, so, why not? Perhaps that's why Queen of Natamba and Mbongo seems so weak. Mbande Nzinga doesn't seems to me as a leader created because she could bring interesting abilities, but solely because Kongo needed a leader that could found a religion. Also, where's the Great Negotiator side?
As for Saladin... Yeah, bonus for religious units (the most boring part of the game), but the rest? A religious civ with a religious leader to crush enemies. What would have been perfect would be to generate Diplomatc Favors through war, to represent how Saladin was still respected by the christian leaders even during the crusades. But, hey, they had to limit themselves to the base game.


So, overall, I feel not really enthusiast about all of this, but, hey, I'll try them anyway.

 

[InsidiousMage]

After looking over everything again, can't say I'm too impressed. The only really interesting thing here is that the Kongo can now found a religion, which is. . . eh? Lincoln might be interesting in but I rarely get dark ages anymore and I'm not sure free units are all that interesting and I wouldn't go domination with America anyway. Saladin is fine if you want to go aggressive but, again, I don't really feel like domination is a good fit with Arabia. Hopefully the other leaders will be more interesting.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

The Amenity malus just straight up disincentivises the building of Plantations - the whole point of getting Luxuries is for the +1 Amenity. At least the Loyalty mechanic can be counteracted.

There's also the Bonus Resources that are improved by Plantations, but I can only remember Bananas.

 

[AntSou]

No, it will count. Unclear if pillaged Plantations will still count, but I expect they will. You are going to want to raze any conquered city.

You mean conquering cities with IZs will also grant the bonuses? Including the free units?

 

[IvoryPavane]

Honestly, they should have kept both the Loyalty and Amenities maluses in for R&F and GS. It makes more sense, and the Ability has more meaningful consequences.

The amenity part has just shifted to his second ability in the R and F onwards. So he still gets the good part of it, but I agree it would have been more interesting to deal with the malus as well

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I suppose lincoln wants to settle on the plantation amenities even more than you normally might want to.

 

[Zaarin]

Gonna have to go General Sherman on their butts.

Though the historian in me has to point out that Sherman's March to the Sea has been mythologized out of all proportion. He only targeted the estates of Confederate leaders, and many civilians preferred dealing with Sherman to dealing with Confederate foragers. Sherman kept his army on a very, very tight leash.

 

[IvoryPavane]

For Nzinga, the fact that the Holy Site malus is removed is arguably part of her core ability. Everything else is gravy

 

[AntSou]

The Amenity malus just straight up disincentivises the building of Plantations - the whole point of getting Luxuries is for the +1 Amenity. At least the Loyalty mechanic can be counteracted.

Not really since it just cuts it from 4 to 3. So it makes it a bit harder to keep a large empire happy since you're getting 1 extra amenity on only three cities rather than four. Right?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Sultan Saladin is so "meh" that noone even talked about it yet (when I was writing this comment; everything goes so fast that now some people gave their opinion ^^). Some of the most forgettable abilities and, myself being a pacifist, I have absolutely no idea if it's powerful. Well, I guess I'll stay with Righteous Saladin until the end and barely touch Sultan Saladin...

As someone who usually plays on Warlord difficulty, is by no means an expert, and sometimes goes for Domination for the lol's, I can say that +100% Flanking and and Support is actually bloody huge. Sometimes, Support Bonuses are the only thing that keeps my Units from dying, so getting more of that is actually good. +100% Flanking is also useful when dealing with any nasty Units or Cities that just won't be conquered.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Though the historian in me has to point out that Sherman's March to the Sea has been mythologized out of all proportion. He only targeted the estates of Confederate leaders, and many civilians preferred dealing with Sherman to dealing with Confederate foragers. Sherman kept his army on a very, very tight leash.

It was really more a reference the burning of Atlanta, since the person I was quoting suggested razing cities instead of conquering them.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

What strikes me as odd is how little those LUA synergize with their CUA.
Granted, none of Teddy's abilities synergized with Founding Fathers, but a leader marketed as "Great Negotiator" would definitely be perfect to have a synergy with the additional Diplomatic Favor generated from them.

I've always seen America in Civ 6 as a cultural civ no matter the leader/persona.
Lincoln incentivizing Industrial Zones will help churn out World Wonders faster.

 

[Zaarin]

For Nzinga, the fact that the Holy Site malus is removed is arguably part of her core ability. Everything else is gravy

Agreed. Nzinga's ability is she can found a religion. She's honestly the only leader here I'm tempted to try playing as for that reason.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Firaxis: Calls Pack 1 'Great Negotioators'

Also Firaxis: All leaders added are best at Dominations Victories.

Great at negotiating your complete and unconditional surrender.

 

[Uberfrog]

You mean conquering cities with IZs will also grant the bonuses? Including the free units?

Ah sorry, was tunnel-vision on the Plantation part. If it works like Victoria's ability I think you will also get the unit for the conquered IZ, yes.

 

[King William I]

Though the historian in me has to point out that Sherman's March to the Sea has been mythologized out of all proportion. He only targeted the estates of Confederate leaders, and many civilians preferred dealing with Sherman to dealing with Confederate foragers. Sherman kept his army on a very, very tight leash.

But. But. But. Evil Northerners trampling on our rights! /s

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Firaxis: Calls Pack 1 'Great Negotioators'

Also Firaxis: All leaders added are best at Dominations Victories.

Great at negotiating your complete and unconditional surrender.

Wonder what they have planned for the next DLC, 'Great Commanders,' with Tokugawa, Nader Shah, and new Suleiman persona?

 

[queenpea]

Wonder what they have planned for the next DLC, 'Great Commanders,' with Tokugawa, Nader Shah, and new Suleiman persona?

"Commanding" cultural victory, no doubt.