Learning Diety: Hateshput Re-roll

[Revent]

T21-T30

It seems that I was too slow to block Augustus.

Tips on how to proceed? I'm thinking of just taking that city and razing it to be honest. If he really is stuck over there, there is only so many units he can throw at me. Settler is coming out next turn so don't know where I should settle it. Advice welcome

 

[Doshin]

Settle 3E of you capital so that you can share the horsies before the culture pop. You'll get good use out of the wheat in the short-term even if you do eventually lose it.

Rushing Augustus is, IMO, a bad idea. He has three cities, which means there's a good chance that he already has metal. If he does have metal hooked up (scout him), you will lose more War chariots to Spearmen than you can possibly sustain. If he doesn't have metal, he'll get it soon and, since you don't yet have BWing, you can't chop/whip enough War Chariots out to effectively choke him.

Again, IMO, your production base is way to weak to take on an AI at this stage. If you do want to rush, I think you need at least three cities and several workers to chop out an army.

[A caveat: I haven't rushed with WCs for a while, so I might be underestimating them (I know that they're good).]

 

[Revent]

Settle 3E of you capital so that you can share the horsies before the culture pop. You'll get good use out of the wheat in the short-term even if you do eventually lose it.

Rushing Augustus is, IMO, a bad idea. He has three cities, which means there's a good chance that he already has metal. If he does have metal hooked up (scout him), you will lose more War chariots to Spearmen than you can possibly sustain. If he doesn't have metal, he'll get it soon and, since you don't yet have BWing, you can't chop/whip enough War Chariots out to effectively choke him.

Again, IMO, your production base is way to weak to take on an AI at this stage. If you do want to rush, I think you need at least three cities and several workers to chop out an army.

[A caveat: I haven't rushed with WCs for a while, so I might be underestimating them (I know that they're good).]

Based on your caveat, I'd like to wait a little bit longer to get some more opinion before I continue play not that I am doubting you. I have lost many WC's against spearmen when I play against my brother
Although I think leaving at 3 cities may be a bit too late. Production is not an issue to be honest. Lots of forest, a pasture and two hills along with the settling on a PH. A stack of 10-12 is all I need. I did a deity chariot rush once on deity when I used to play on Noble for the heck of it and managed to take 7 cities so they are pretty powerful

 

[ben-jammin]

You should be able to tell if he has metal hooked up by re-opening hte dialogue window until he brags about his most advanced unit. If he does have metal, you obviously need to determine if you can disconnect it within the first turn or two.

 

[Revent]

You should be able to tell if he has metal hooked up by re-opening hte dialogue window until he brags about his most advanced unit. If he does have metal, you obviously need to determine if you can disconnect it within the first turn or two.

Oh yes, thanks for that! Completely forgot about that trick.

To date, he only has archers which can only mean good news

 

[Benginal]

Given that this is a learning thread, why don't you go ahead and plan for the rush. I'm pretty sure you'll get crushed and even if you have mild success you'll find yourself way behind. But I might be wrong and I'm curious to see. And if it doesn't go well just start from this turn 30 save again and opt not to rush.

For what it's worth, I'd be much more inclined to see all those trees turned into the Great Lighthouse. And regardless of what you decide to do the site 3E of the capital is a good safe place for a second city.

 

[ben-jammin]

Given that this is a learning thread, why don't you go ahead and plan for the rush. I'm pretty sure you'll get crushed and even if you have mild success you'll find yourself way behind. But I might be wrong and I'm curious to see. And if it doesn't go well just start from this turn 30 save again and opt not to rush.

For what it's worth, I'd be much more inclined to see all those trees turned into the Great Lighthouse. And regardless of what you decide to do the site 3E of the capital is a good safe place for a second city.

I play on immortal but I imagine that even on deity WCs against a neighbour that close with only archers would be a piece of cake? Especially considering the problems the Caesars can cause in not too long if it turns out they have iron.

 

[Revent]

Given that this is a learning thread, why don't you go ahead and plan for the rush. I'm pretty sure you'll get crushed and even if you have mild success you'll find yourself way behind. But I might be wrong and I'm curious to see. And if it doesn't go well just start from this turn 30 save again and opt not to rush.

For what it's worth, I'd be much more inclined to see all those trees turned into the Great Lighthouse. And regardless of what you decide to do the site 3E of the capital is a good safe place for a second city.

Although the lighthouse would be an amazing build, I'd be much more inclined to try for a game in which I learn to maintain my economy without strong modifiers. Although it is better than having lots of gold to start with because it's a decision I have to make and invest hammers in, it can be a very powerful wonder.

Will actually see if I can rush him He seems VERY close after all.

I play on immortal but I imagine that even on deity WCs against a neighbour that close with only archers would be a piece of cake? Especially considering the problems the Caesars can cause in not too long if it turns out they have iron.

Only problem is that he may reach to copper/iron faster in deity I'd imagine. I would've thought it'd be slightly easier if you can get horses quick enough because their units would be spread over two cities rather than 1.

 

[Revent]

T31-T53
The Romans have been destroyed

This is the state of the empire at the moment.
In the war, I killed 9 archers in total and stole 5 workers. The key to success in this was was that the Romans wanted more land and the copper was just in their culture so I would keep all my chariots right outside. If I saw a worker trying to build a mine, I would steal him and declare war. I'd then proceed to kill either a roaming archer or pillage a new city he settled and do a ceasefire. I then rinsed and repeated until I had a stack large enough to destroy his capital. Issue with building the stack first was that in the time I built the stack, he may have hooked up the copper so a hit and run technique was necessary. Benefits were of course 5 workers and no metal units to fight

Tech Path: I went Writing before pottery because I felt my economy would crash before I could research writing and getting those scientists up would make a difference much faster than pottery and cottages would due to them having an initial small return and taking lots of worker turns (chopping required for most/all spots).

Further Plans:
I think I want to settle City 1 ASAP (Romans settled on Corn ), I think I may 2 pop whip it soon and then build another settler for site 2. Whilst I do that, I want to bring some WC's over to the barb city and take it. I've generally noticed that barb cities tend to be very good if you can take them.

Somehow, I need to get Boudica to pleased now. May gift her some techs once Alpha comes in. Tech wise, I think I'll go fishing->Alpha for now unless I meet another AI or two in which case I will go Aesthetics.

Advice really welcome

Edit: On the verge of an economy crash actually, only gain 2 gold at 0% which is worrying. So quickly need to get some cottages up near the river. Luckily, I have 7 workers to do so

Edit 2: Worth going for the 'Mids? I have two capital sites with stone. May be a solution for happiness problems as well.

 

[ben-jammin]

With stone, definitely get started on the pyramids right away. With Rome coming out of revolt and cottage spamming the riverside your economy looks fine. Did you raze the city near the pigs/corn because you were worried about maintenance? That was a good site. I'd time some chops for a couple instant workboats as soon as fishing is done to get you through writing faster.

 

[soundjata]

I suggest grabbing the Pig as well with "city 1"

There are cottages to pillage with your WC for some gold.

To get Mids, you'd need to tech Masonry, bulb math, then chop 6 forests in city 2 on the same turn.
To make this investment pay off, you'll need to put many scientists at work soon after.
My feeling: not worth it.

(Edit X post with Ben)

 

[ben-jammin]

I suggest grabbing the Pig as well with "city 1"

There are cottages to pillage with your WC for some gold.

To get Mids, you'd need to tech Masonry, bulb math, then chop 6 forests in city 2 on the same turn.
To make this investment pay off, you'll need to put many scientists at work soon after.
My feeling: not worth it.

(Edit X post with Ben)

I wouldn't bother chopping the mids. I'd just slow build them, hope for a lucky late completion, and be quite pleased with the stone-boosted fail gold if that doesn't pan out. Bulbing math would be a huge mistake.

I agree he should settle that city 1s of the marked location after pillaging that cottage. Aside from the pigs it gets you two more forests giving up only desert and plains (being coastal does nothing for that city).

 

[Benginal]

Very nicely done Revent! I agree that you should definitely at least try to build the pyramids. Also, all this talk of making deity harder than it already is is silly! I say build wonders if you can.

Again, nicely done taking out the Roman.

 

[Revent]

Very nicely done Revent! I agree that you should definitely at least try to build the pyramids. Also, all this talk of making deity harder than it already is is silly! I say build wonders if you can.

Again, nicely done taking out the Roman.

Thanks! Not sure if going to go for the 'Mids actually. Have to go out of my way to research Masonry first which is something I might not be able to afford at this point. The stone is there so I'm definitely going to slow build stone wonders and not get them obviously with the exception of MAYBE the hanging gardens. However, I need to focus on recovery now and to avoid getting declared on by Boudica. Not sure how I can get her to pleased though without religion.

Main game issues to address:
-Settle City 1 [ideal location is 1S of current plan, but sharing borders may be a problem in the near future]
-Settle City 2 to work the cottages
-Settle a city near rome to quickly get access to copper for some decent defence against swords and spears
-Settle City 3 and work cottages
-Research Fishing->Alpha (backfill if possible)->Aesthetics->CoL->CS
Add Monarchy somewhere there as well as a possible detour to Lit and a bulb for Phil

Any suggestions welcome and tips for boudica would be really appreciated, she's given me a lot of hell in the past

I suggest grabbing the Pig as well with "city 1"

There are cottages to pillage with your WC for some gold.

To get Mids, you'd need to tech Masonry, bulb math, then chop 6 forests in city 2 on the same turn.
To make this investment pay off, you'll need to put many scientists at work soon after.
My feeling: not worth it.

(Edit X post with Ben)

Issue is sharing borders with Boudica. I'm not sure if I'd like to do that because she will kick my ass

With stone, definitely get started on the pyramids right away. With Rome coming out of revolt and cottage spamming the riverside your economy looks fine. Did you raze the city near the pigs/corn because you were worried about maintenance? That was a good site. I'd time some chops for a couple instant workboats as soon as fishing is done to get you through writing faster.

I have to research Masonry for it. As everything stands now, I'm not sure if that is something I can afford to make a detour for
I went for writing before pottery so already have it. Rome has a library in the queue purely to show that I do have writing

 

[Gumbolt]

Looking good so far but the low sea level and continents are really helping you land wise. Celts still only have 4 cities. If you don't have foreign trade routes the island city will pay for itself with trade routes doubled.

City 2 seems too close to your existing cities. Why have 3 so close??? There is lots of green glassland 1s of the corn city and it would be a shame to lose that.

Looking at the map your biggest issue is happiness. You have 1 happiness resources but the sugar may well be taken by the celts. Mids could help here but on deity is it a gamble? I would certainly risk it just for the failed gold but you need masonry too.

You need to hook up the copper before barb spears overrun you.

Fail gold. Look to build wonders with intent to get fail gold. Even on national wonders too.

The only reason you might lose this is if the Ai far away simply out tech you. You have lil or no commerce resources and very few rivers. A good GP farm will be very important here to get you trade chips.

Remember Boudica is a one trick pony. She will use large stacks but generally she is a slow tech AI. Wasily bribed with techs. On Deity she will not be so slow though.

 

[Kid R]

T21-T30
It seems that I was too slow to block Augustus.

What made you think you could block Augustus? From this pic it looks like you were the one in danger of getting blocked into a corner

 

[pigswill]

So I guess WC rush was possible after all .

At least with Gwall you don't have to worry about being overrun by barbs. You're paying 9gpt unit maintenance so you could disband your warriors. With Gwall you don't need to spawnbust. You could even consider razing barb cities to supplement your income.

I'd put city 2 1SE of marked location, river for instant trade route, get rid of pesky desert tile and more grassland, even if its less overlap with capital it looks like the overlap would be plains tiles anyway. edit: Oops, checking ze map ze pesky desert tile is actually a tasty FP so maybe you want to keep that one .

 

[barbertje]

What made you think you could block Augustus? From this pic it looks like you were the one in danger of getting blocked into a corner

I tried the map 5 times, and I was able to block Augustus only once, because he built the great wall really early. If you grow to size 2, with worker-warrior settler, The blocking city can be settled in 2760BC on the desert tile SE of the pigs, and that's not fast enough.

 

[shakabrade]

@Revent

WC rush (lol, this is so ambiguous) was fantastically performed.


But I think it was too soon for more than one reason:

1)You didn't block land. But maybe you still manage to do that.
2)You got rid from someone who could suck hate from Boudica.
3)AC could have built you at least one wonder and with stone it'd be Pyramids and even GLH (In all of my recent games where Romans started coastal, they built GLH).
4)AC could have traded you some techs before he died
5)Boudica hates Augustus because of peaceweights and would go after him if they had close borders. That'd allow you to dogpile him and get positive diplo from Boudica. Boudica doesn't plot at pleased. You could also use Boudica's army to soften AC's cities before you attack and capture them.

I did play this and have save from around 400AD waiting for you to compare (I played it with BUFFY since I always have difficulties running both BUG/BULL and BUFFY). But you can imagine I did all those things I said you should. If I didn't play it I wouldn't be so ''smart''. I didn't go for full WC rush. I waited for some wonders to be built and for Boudica to declare and hit jackpot. Besides AC settled a city on copper and those spears started coming out pretty early. I'd advise you to scout more and earlier so you could see more tactical options. Believe me, that'll make all your future games lot easier. Barbs were a non factor for me. And I used 3-4 warriors for fogbusting. Even lost one to an archer while I had winning odds (fortified on jungle hill).

You don't need any more military for some time and should focus on commerce and expansion (as you probably meant to do). Try not to forget great scientists too.

Good luck!

 

[ben-jammin]

Thanks! Not sure if going to go for the 'Mids actually. Have to go out of my way to research Masonry first which is something I might not be able to afford at this point. The stone is there so I'm definitely going to slow build stone wonders and not get them obviously with the exception of MAYBE the hanging gardens. However, I need to focus on recovery now and to avoid getting declared on by Boudica. Not sure how I can get her to pleased though without religion.

Main game issues to address:
-Settle City 1 [ideal location is 1S of current plan, but sharing borders may be a problem in the near future]
-Settle City 2 to work the cottages
-Settle a city near rome to quickly get access to copper for some decent defence against swords and spears
-Settle City 3 and work cottages
-Research Fishing->Alpha (backfill if possible)->Aesthetics->CoL->CS
Add Monarchy somewhere there as well as a possible detour to Lit and a bulb for Phil

Any suggestions welcome and tips for boudica would be really appreciated, she's given me a lot of hell in the past


Issue is sharing borders with Boudica. I'm not sure if I'd like to do that because she will kick my ass

With AIs like boudica and monty I always try to gift them an early tech as soon as I get my hands on alphabet, maybe not possible on deity though. That plus peace plus open borders might get you to pleased if peace lasts long enough to get to +2.

I have to research Masonry for it. As everything stands now, I'm not sure if that is something I can afford to make a detour for
I went for writing before pottery so already have it. Rome has a library in the queue purely to show that I do have writing

I'm wondering why, if you have all those workers and urgent need of commerce, you didn't research pottery first and then writing with the discount that gives. Would have compensated a bit for a masonry detour, which in the end more than pays for itself if you get even just a dozen turns or so into the mids before someone else completes it.

City 2 seems too close to your existing cities. Why have 3 so close??? There is lots of green glassland 1s of the corn city and it would be a shame to lose that.

Second city that close for very little maintenance with access to 2 good food tiles is great. It can grow cottages for the capital.