Learning Diety: Hateshput Re-roll

[pigswill]

To bulb lib you need compass but avoid machinery otherwise it goes compass>optics.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Burea capital should work cottages early, especially with so much surplus food; that is why in this game, scouting early for food rich GP farm is so important.

here is my capital at 1160AD and the 3 seafood city, not need GPs much at this point though. This game is set up for a strong mid-late game.

As you can see i had no luck with the GP production, at 90% GS i still got 2 GArtists lol.

Edit: Lost lib due to bad luck with GPs, but won circle the globe bonus, love those 3 move fish boats

Also Thebes is actually a great site for a super science capital given it is coastal and have GLH, once your get Astro, the trade routes alone can pull in 40-50 raw commerce.

Spoiler :

cpaital:

GT city

 

[Mylene]

yay for those artists, happens waaay more often than it should.
If i needed proof for Civ's rng being messy, they alone would be enuf
I played too many games to still believe GP % chances are fair, no way and if some code diving professor tells me they are i wouldn't believe him

 

[Doshin]

The game looks lost to me too, but I'm sure that a better player could still pull it out of the bag.

In general, I'd suggest the following for subsequent games:

• Tighten up your early tech path by grabbing Aesthetics + Literature + Compass, + avoiding Machinery, for the bulb path. All three techs are, btw, excellent trade bait.
• If you go Aesthetics - Literature, you should be in a position to research Music. Look at the other AIs: if you're the only one who can research it, go for it. You might get the free GA. If you're unsure about winning Music, it's still great trade bait. Once the GA is gone, the other AIs will take forever to tech it, and the only AI who has Music will refuse to trade it around until it's built the Sistine Chapel. You need Music for MT, so you might as well get something for it.
• Literature lets you build the NE. Focus specialists in this city and this city only, unless you have the mids.
• Try not to run caste unless you're in a GA with pacifism.
• Tighten up your worker management. Why is there one worker on the island NW of Thebes when a city is working unchopped forests? Are all your workers on the mainland currently needed?
• Don't build temples in cities that can whip away unhappiness, with the exception of your capital and NE site. Don't build monasteries, except when they grant the AP hammers.
• In coastal cities, it's usually better to build granaries & lighthouses before barracks & stables. The former buildings let you whip the latter in quickly.
• I don't like to go to war early unless I'm seriously boxed in or next to a dangerous neighbor who will attack before MT (Monty, Ragnar, Alexander...). If you do want to war early, make sure that you get something from it that you didn't have before (you had expansion space when you attacked AC; you lost a target for Boudica, an early trade partner, and a potential sources of captured wonders).

Deity is tough, so don't worry about it Pangaea brings a different set of challenges but, I think, tends to be more fun.

 

[Revent]

The game looks lost to me too, but I'm sure that a better player could still pull it out of the bag.

In general, I'd suggest the following for subsequent games:

• Tighten up your early tech path by grabbing Aesthetics + Literature + Compass, + avoiding Machinery, for the bulb path. All three techs are, btw, excellent trade bait.
• If you go Aesthetics - Literature, you should be in a position to research Music. Look at the other AIs: if you're the only one who can research it, go for it. You might get the free GA. If you're unsure about winning Music, it's still great trade bait. Once the GA is gone, the other AIs will take forever to tech it, and the only AI who has Music will refuse to trade it around until it's built the Sistine Chapel. You need Music for MT, so you might as well get something for it.
• Literature lets you build the NE. Focus specialists in this city and this city only, unless you have the mids.
• Try not to run caste unless you're in a GA with pacifism.
• Tighten up your worker management. Why is there one worker on the island NW of Thebes when a city is working unchopped forests? Are all your workers on the mainland currently needed?
• Don't build temples in cities that can whip away unhappiness, with the exception of your capital and NE site. Don't build monasteries, except when they grant the AP hammers.
• In coastal cities, it's usually better to build granaries & lighthouses before barracks & stables. The former buildings let you whip the latter in quickly.
• I don't like to go to war early unless I'm seriously boxed in or next to a dangerous neighbor who will attack before MT (Monty, Ragnar, Alexander...). If you do want to war early, make sure that you get something from it that you didn't have before (you had expansion space when you attacked AC; you lost a target for Boudica, an early trade partner, and a potential sources of captured wonders).

Deity is tough, so don't worry about it Pangaea brings a different set of challenges but, I think, tends to be more fun.

Definitely going to remember Compass this time!
Will bear this all in mind! Thanks! Yeah, I got a bit lazy with workers and couldn't be bothered to transport them :$

Yeah, I like the idea of being locked in and having to break out, but at the same time, being able to know all of the AI pretty quickly!

 

[shakabrade]

@Revent

Why did you quit?

Your game is still very winnable.

Maybe not the best date, but these are continents.

You don't always have to cuirassier or cavalry rush to win. Especially when you already have enough land.


I must say going for Lib while you didn't even meet most of the AIs is a mistake. I went for Astronomy bulb, and got it around 900AD. Especially when you have GLH you want earlier Astronomy. You also don't want to lose time clearing your continent while on the other landmass some AI could run away. Situation on your continent was controlled, you could always bribe Boudica against WK. You want to influence other continent's war/peace as soon as possible. Also, earlier contact with other continent can give you lot more beakers than Libbing anything since you can trade like crazy earlier.

My game wasn't particularly stronger than yours and I managed to win easily. My plan was getting to Bombers+Fighters+Carriers+Marines so I could easily and quickly take over other continent. I got factories and Mining inc with +10-15 in 1500's and 16 cities. That is potential of 10 modern units per turn. But then I got scared/lazy of troop management and went for space happily.

I'll provide you with some saves so you can compare.

I'd still like you to play your game to the end. You seem to learn fast and it will be valuable experience for you. I know I learned more from my defeats. Even if you cannot win with conventional units you can still easily win with nukes. Besides, you are learning deity not owning deity.

Some pics from late game:

Spoiler :

 

[Revent]

@Revent

Why did you quit?

Your game is still very winnable.

Maybe not the best date, but these are continents.

You don't always have to cuirassier or cavalry rush to win. Especially when you already have enough land.


I must say going for Lib while you didn't even meet most of the AIs is a mistake. I went for Astronomy bulb, and got it around 900AD. Especially when you have GLH you want earlier Astronomy. You also don't want to lose time clearing your continent while on the other landmass some AI could run away. Situation on your continent was controlled, you could always bribe Boudica against WK. You want to influence other continent's war/peace as soon as possible. Also, earlier contact with other continent can give you lot more beakers than Libbing anything since you can trade like crazy earlier.

My game wasn't particularly stronger than yours and I managed to win easily. My plan was getting to Bombers+Fighters+Carriers+Marines so I could easily and quickly take over other continent. I got factories and Mining inc with +10-15 in 1500's and 16 cities. That is potential of 10 modern units per turn. But then I got scared/lazy of troop management and went for space happily.

I'll provide you with some saves so you can compare.

I'd still like you to play your game to the end. You seem to learn fast and it will be valuable experience for you. I know I learned more from my defeats. Even if you cannot win with conventional units you can still easily win with nukes. Besides, you are learning deity not owning deity.

Some pics from late game:

Spoiler :

Hey! Thanks for this post! It really motivated me to try this again!

So, I played from 25 AD this time, I thought about bulbing Astro, but realised it would've been a bit hard because I already unlocked paper. Despite that, I decided to go for it but things went slightly different than expected!

So I went Paper->MC->Machinery->Optics->1 Bulb Edu->1 bulb PP
I was then waiting for my GS to come up in a few turns but I saw Lib just 12 turns away! So I thought why don't I lib Astro Which is what I did!

 

[shakabrade]

Nice, Revent

Have you considered opening those borders with other continent for boosting trade routes before they all go into Mercantilism.

I'll edit this post when I get a look at your save (currently on phone).

 

[Duckweed]

@Revent
I was also surprised that you aborted a game for some easy reasons. Deity is a level with the least available strategies. To be competent in this level, you need to

1. Train your empire development skill or call it micro management. This is the easy part, you only need to play a couple of representative games with lots of replays until you feel very satisfied with the results.

2. Train your diplomacy skill. This is the most difficult part in wide range, which needs a lot of practice to gain experience. However, you don't need decent skill to win most of the deity maps.

If you want just fun, then there's nothing wrong to abort a game not in your taste. However, if your goal is to learn and win constantly, there's really no need to start a new game before you improve your empire development skill. Cui war is only one way of winning the game, it sucks in many unfavorable situations.

IMO, continent map is the best map of learning.

 

[Mylene]

Well in all fairness, Revent planned for Curis..if you fail after teching stuffs like military tradition, it's pretty hard to recover.
I dun think continents are great for learning, there really is not that much diplo involved with only 2 AIs who won't attack on pleased.

 

[shakabrade]

...and curis are not that good on continents cause they don't swim much.

I know you (Mylene) tend to win by 1500AD, but there is a lot of game after that. Afterall, if he fails to get Military or Tech lead, he has centuries of cheap espionage with holy city to catch up. This game was all but lost.

@Revent
I opened your save, written some general stuff there and saved so here it is for you. Tell me if you think this concept is good or bad. Never seen it or done it before

 

[Mylene]

Pfff i played lots of games with Tanks, Bombers, UN Diplo, even space
Not very exciting for me thou. Still better than UU rushes & Co, so i dun feel bad that it's my favorite tactic

 

[Revent]

@Revent
I was also surprised that you aborted a game for some easy reasons. Deity is a level with the least available strategies. To be competent in this level, you need to

1. Train your empire development skill or call it micro management. This is the easy part, you only need to play a couple of representative games with lots of replays until you feel very satisfied with the results.

2. Train your diplomacy skill. This is the most difficult part in wide range, which needs a lot of practice to gain experience. However, you don't need decent skill to win most of the deity maps.

If you want just fun, then there's nothing wrong to abort a game not in your taste. However, if your goal is to learn and win constantly, there's really no need to start a new game before you improve your empire development skill. Cui war is only one way of winning the game, it sucks in many unfavorable situations.

IMO, continent map is the best map of learning.

Oh I hadn't actually shown the latest save, but I got destroyed I lost my whole stack against Boudica and was guarded with just archers
But thanks for the advice! I think I need a bit more practice with number 1. Diplomacy is fairly easy for me Like in another game I was playing (imm) I had all of the AI bar one pleased/friendly.

...and curis are not that good on continents cause they don't swim much.

I know you (Mylene) tend to win by 1500AD, but there is a lot of game after that. Afterall, if he fails to get Military or Tech lead, he has centuries of cheap espionage with holy city to catch up. This game was all but lost.

@Revent
I opened your save, written some general stuff there and saved so here it is for you. Tell me if you think this concept is good or bad. Never seen it or done it before

Thanks!! That's really great!
Which concept are you referring to?
I definitely want to give Corps a shot this game. I think I'll go for Sushi though.

I don't know. I think that game previously was lost. I managed to get GM's and I used them for a foreign trade and got lots of gold to upgrade Cuirs to Cavs and Boudica destroyed my stack like it was nothing I was left with my cities guarded by archers

However, I'm not sure exactly how to go around getting to Corps and then making my way to a win. I either want to go for Space or UN. For that, in an ideal situation, I'd have a whole continent of land to myself, but I don't think I've ever fought a modern era war with tanks and the lot before above Noble So just some general advice on the ideal way to get there, etc.. how to get nukes really quickly so I can be ready to destroy entire stacks and lots of cities very quickly. Is there a guide for this?

 

[Revent]

Okay, so I played a couple of turns now. Not sure how to go. I really want to kill Wang Kon even though he is friendly with me He has two cites I really like (so far).

Not sure how to proceed with this. I want to tech rifling, see if I can trade for nationalism and then start drafting everywhere. Although I'll wait for suggestions

oh and I'd love to kill Boudica AS WELL but I she has two stacks which make a total of over 50 units! Never seen such a big stack for an AI!! eek!

Edit again: Also have the route of bulbing Sci Method, then bulbing Physics and then using that GS to bulb Bio although not sure what that will do

 

[Mylene]

Very important you send a Caravel towards Hanni, not having met him can hurt you cos he usually is a good trade partner.

 

[Revent]

Very important you send a Caravel towards Hanni, not having met him can hurt you cos he usually is a good trade partner.

Yeah, I wrote it down to get myself a caravel down there ASAP. Any other suggestions?

A beeline to mass media and building the UN may be a plausible idea. With 2 friendly AI, and a couple I should be able to get to pleased, I think it might be possible although I'd prefer to not have to resort to it.

I was thinking of considering Sushi a shot, but at the moment, I'm not sure because I've never used corps before so I'd like to at least get a grasp of deity before giving a new tactic a shot.

 

[Revent]

bump bump bump!

 

[Duckweed]

@revent

At this stage, if you want more land in short time, then cannon war is probably the only safe way. The next opportunity is modern war. Or you could beeline to internet for anything you want.

 

[Revent]

Lost this game

Well, the most amazing thing is that I was around 30 votes away from a diplomatic victory. Had Hannibal at friendly/pleased, had Izzy at pleased, Wang Kon was my vassal and Boudica was friendly.
It was just getting that last AI to pleased/friendly which I had been struggling on for hundreds of years. Eh, it was a good game, Cannons+Rifles owned Wang Kon That was a great interest. I drafted rifles and I whipped cannons. Very interesting and powerful! Also meant I lost next to no Rifles in the war! Problem was the GT city was on another island

I had 20 cities compared to Hannibals 16 as well. Research was going decent as well. Popped 2 GSpies though so used those to steal a tech as well.

 

[Manco Capac]

Hey Revent, you should play my deity Fun #1; it was an easy one according to those who played it. The second installment was mildy easy too.