Let's Read the Bible Once

[El_Machinae]

You do realise that it was Creationists who first proposed that the earth was once together in one piece.

Are you sure? Shouldn't that have been proposed by multiple peoples?

the fountains of the deep refers to the ocean, not underground water - The Flood was caused by the ocean rising up before the rain fell

What caused you to come to that interpretation?

 

[Eukaryote]

Though I don't agree with Christianity anymore, I admire Kaitzilla for doing this, especially considering the profound ignorance people generally have about their own holy books.

 

[Rashiminos]

Protestants have 7 less books in the Bible than Catholics do.

and Catholics don't have the Q documents.

The thing that stopped me is that a lot of the words are out of date. And the reading is so dense. Things just seem to happen and you have to think about why.

Edit:

 

[Puck Nutty]

Don't forget the Book of Enoch.

 

[_random_]

and Catholics don't have the Q documents.

To be fair, I can't think of any religious groups that include hypothetical writings as sacred writ.

 

[Harv]

I will try.

First time reader of this thread - I am really impressed that you were reading 5 chapters of Genesis per day and in King James English on top of that!

I am reading from the Holman Christian Standard Bible and my reading goes in fits and starts. It will probably take me a couple or few years to get through the Old Testament.

I got really distracted by Civ 4 two months ago

Civ 4 comes and goes for me. Currently playing Baldur's Gate TOTSC over here and on a third consecutive day of rest from that.

Egyptian Christians are currently facing the worst attacks in 700 years and here I am slacking again.

Increasingly, Christians are facing huge persecution everywhere:
Let's see, where to restart...

Regarding persecutions - I will take this as a reminder to pick up a copy of Barnabas Aid.

You can add to your list America's downward spiral.

No doubt you will pick it up again right where you left off.

I have not gone through all the posts in this thread. It was already 14 pages long by the time I found it. When I think of burning questions, I will ask:

1. According to Scripture, is a 6000 year-old earth a take-it-or-leave-it proposition? Can an Old Earth Theory be reconciled with Scripture through gaps and intellectual gymnastics and Relativity theory? Can a Young Earth Theory be reconciled with modern day science? Where does Uranium come from? Does the unleaded gasoline in my car have Carbon-14?

I note Genesis 1:16 references the creation of the Sun and the Moon, and this was already on the fourth day.

2. As an attempt to answer your question about Cain and where did his wife come from - Chapter 4 records the birth of Cain and Abel. Genesis 5:4 says he fathered sons and daughters. I would say that Adam and Eve had daughters along with Cain and Abel, but they were not mentioned in Chapter 4, where Cain took a wife.

Going forward to Genesis 29:31-35, you have Jacob and Leah having four sons, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah. Then she stopped having children. Chapter 34 tells the story about Dinah, a daughter Leah bore through Jacob. (EDIT: First mentioned Genesis 30:21.... ooops )

3. When did the Biblical Flood occur? Creationists claim all these fossils and rock formations were created by the flood waters coming and going. Evolutionists claim it was millions of years of erosion and there were many mass extinction events. (Next time I am really bored maybe I will look up how to calculate rates of erosion and abrasion and see if the Creationist claim that the Grand Canyon was dug by 5 miles of water receding over 54 days or so is physically possible.)

4. What happened to the Dinosaurs? Did God tell Noah (Genesis 6:19) to go get two of each kind and put them in his Ark? And did Noah look at Mister T. Rex and shake his head and say "nuh-uh."

5. Chapter 10 is also known as the Table of Nations. Where did the Native Americans come from?

Genesis 10:6 "Ham's sons: Cush, Egypt, Put, and Canaan." Your translation calls Egypt "Mizraim." Wait a minute - Egypt was a man?

Genesis 10:14 is your first mention of where the Philistines come from.

6. When did the Tower of Babel event of Chapter 11 occur? What was the world population at this time?

7. Who built the Great Pyramid at Giza? It is much more sophisticated than the technology we say was available to the people living there at the time. It certainly does not work like you are playing Civ 4 and research Masonry, build a Stone Quarry and chop down a bunch of trees.

That's all the questions I can think of so far. After this, we are into Chapter 12 and my current reading is up to Chapter 29.

 

[Arakhor]

As to the Grand Canyon, no it isn't. Water simply doesn't flow that way.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

2. As an attempt to answer your question about Cain and where did his wife come from - Chapter 4 records the birth of Cain and Abel. Genesis 5:4 says he fathered sons and daughters. I would say that Adam and Eve had daughters along with Cain and Abel, but they were not mentioned in Chapter 4, where Cain took a wife.

So either Cain committed incest with his sister, or his wife was imaginary...

4. What happened to the Dinosaurs? Did God tell Noah (Genesis 6:19) to go get two of each kind and put them in his Ark? And did Noah look at Mister T. Rex and shake his head and say "nuh-uh."

Humans and dinosaurs did not exist at the same time (as in when the dinosaurs were alive). As somebody here in Canada told one of our aspiring Prime Ministers who believes such nonsense: "The Flintstones was not a documentary."

7. Who built the Great Pyramid at Giza? It is much more sophisticated than the technology we say was available to the people living there at the time.

Who's "we"?

Funny what humans can accomplish with sufficient manpower, people really good at math and engineering, and the ability to think long-term.

It certainly wasn't aliens...

 

[Borachio]

As to the Grand Canyon, no it isn't. Water simply doesn't flow that way.

Once you accept that events in the past didn't happen at the same rate, or conform to the same physical laws, that they do today, things like the Grand Canyon being formed in an incredibly short time aren't really a problem to you, are they?

Believing incredible things isn't difficult once you get the hang of it.

For example, to go off on a tangent, and get ahead of the Biblical story a bit, the miracle of feeding the five thousand (or is it sometimes seven?) is easily explained by supposing that the multitude were shamed into getting out their packed lunches they'd brought with them anyway.

Walking on water is easy peasy too: all you need do is get all the water molecules (which are usually milling about pretty randomly) to line up under the soles of your feet, and away you go.

 

[Rashiminos]

Humans and dinosaurs did not exist at the same time (as in when the dinosaurs were alive). As somebody here in Canada told one of our aspiring Prime Ministers who believes such nonsense: "The Flintstones was not a documentary."

I do detest it when Christians take their Bible in a strict literal sense.

Who's "we"?

Funny what humans can accomplish with sufficient manpower, people really good at math and engineering, and the ability to think long-term.

It certainly wasn't aliens...

So the theory goes... How about some replication?

 

[Borachio]

Hasn't replication been tried?


Link to video.

Certainly I know people have successfully moved large slabs of rock by hand.

 

[Rashiminos]

In Las Vegas, maybe.

 

[Borachio]

Well, just how motivated are people in the C21st?

I mean if there was a pharaoh around who desperately wanted a vehicle to take him into eternity, it might be possible to build a pyramid by hand if that was thought to be the way to do it.

To answer my own question: not very motivated at all; or certainly not sufficiently so.

 

[NetGear]

So either Cain committed incest with his sister, or his wife was imaginary... ..

Well I don't think cain finding a wife isn't much of a problem, since cain was worried about other strangers harming him and god giving him a mark and all. Its pretty clear there was some population in the tale. It just begs the question to another problem... where did all those people come from?

 

[classical_hero]

So either Cain committed incest with his sister, or his wife was imaginary...

Where did the first man get his wife?

 

[Arakhor]

Once you accept that events in the past didn't happen at the same rate, or conform to the same physical laws, that they do today, things like the Grand Canyon being formed in an incredibly short time aren't really a problem to you, are they?

That makes "Intelligent Design" and "Creation Science" all the more ridiculous, though. Once you believe that the Genesis story is about a series of miracles one after the other (or, at the very least, that those events miraculously didn't conform to modern physics as we understand it today), why bother spending millions of <local currency> trying to convince yourself and others that the Bible is indeed factually accurate at all relevant points?

 

[Rashiminos]

Would changes in physical laws be factually inaccurate?

 

[Arakhor]

I really have no idea, given that such a change would be of literally universal scope.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Once you accept that events in the past didn't happen at the same rate, or conform to the same physical laws, that they do today, things like the Grand Canyon being formed in an incredibly short time aren't really a problem to you, are they?

The physical laws governing erosion, weathering, continental drift, plate tectonics, and the water cycle haven't changed during the last 6000 years.

Walking on water is easy peasy too: all you need do is get all the water molecules (which are usually milling about pretty randomly) to line up under the soles of your feet, and away you go.

I walk on water every time it rains, or in winter when there's ice underfoot. It can also be implied if the walker knows where the rocks are just under the water's surface.

So the theory goes... How about some replication?

I've seen documentaries where modern-day engineers and archaeologists partner in an attempt to recreate ancient monuments or other building efforts using period technology and tools.

Well I don't think cain finding a wife isn't much of a problem, since cain was worried about other strangers harming him and god giving him a mark and all. Its pretty clear there was some population in the tale. It just begs the question to another problem... where did all those people come from?

Yep. Where did they come from? Adam & Eve begat two sons... and somehow the planet was populated from that? Eve must have been busy!

Where did the first man get his wife?

Doesn't Genesis explain that? It was magic.

 

[Rashiminos]

I've seen documentaries where modern-day engineers and archaeologists partner in an attempt to recreate ancient monuments or other building efforts using period technology and tools.

So where are these recreations?