Let's Talk Immigration

Gary Childress

Student for and of life
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I'm not particularly hardball when it comes to illegal immigration but my jaw pretty much dropped the whole time I was reading this article. What do others think? My first thought was, I pay taxes and I'm supposed to help pay college tuition for someone who pretty much barged into my country against the law? My second thought was, I wonder if the American Indians felt the same way when someone else came barging into their country. What a mess.... :dunno:


http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20120519/ee409001-16ec-4fe6-a976-6eab28bb6dd3

Young illegal immigrants coming out of the shadows
HELEN O'NEILL
From Associated Press
May 19, 2012 4:34 PM EDT

She was tiny and trembling and looked so very vulnerable. Barely 15, having already experienced a lifetime of hardships since losing her mother at 5 and crossing the desert with her father, she clutched a microphone before a crowd in New York's Union Square.

"My name is Diana," she said. "I am undocumented and unafraid."

With those words last March, another young woman stepped "out of the shadows."

It began several years ago, tentatively, almost furtively, with a few small rallies and a few provocative T-shirts. In the past two years it has grown into a full-fledged movement, emboldening thousands of young people, terrifying their parents, and unsettling authorities unsure of how to respond.

From California to Georgia to New York, children of families who live here illegally are "coming out" — marching behind banners that say "undocumented and unafraid," staging sit-ins in federal offices, and getting arrested in the most defiant ways — in front of the Alabama Capitol, outside federal immigration courts and detention centers, in Maricopa County, Ariz., home of the sworn enemy of illegal immigrants, Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

In "outing" their families as well as themselves, they know they risk being deported.

But as states pass ever more stringent anti-illegal immigration laws — and critics denounce their parents as criminals — these young people say they have no choice.

Even critics who are sympathetic to their cause say the federal government has failed to secure the U.S. borders and that it's too costly to provide schooling, hospital care and other public services to non-citizens. Offering a path to citizenship for those brought into the country illegally as children, they say, simply rewards the parents' law-breaking.

Still, more young people are publicly "coming out" and asserting their right to stay.

They include Mandeep Chahal, a 21-year-old medical student who came to California from India when she was 6. Cesar Andrade, a 19-year old student and tennis coach in New York City who came from Ecuador when he was 8. And Heyra Avila, a feisty 16-year-old from Florence, Ky., whose Mexican parents considered putting her up for adoption so she could become legal.

They are American in every way except on paper, they say. Why should they be branded, judged and punished?

"Coming out was like a weight was lifted," says Angy Rivera, a 21-year-old New Yorker, who was born in Colombia and came here with her mother when she was 3. "It was liberating. I wasn't lying about my life anymore."

While Rivera was growing up in Queens, her mother told her to trust no one, to stay away from people in authority, to never mention her immigration status. But it wasn't until Rivera started looking for jobs and applying to college that she fully understood how different she was. She couldn't work without a Social Security number. And, as a non-citizen, she wasn't eligible for financial aid, despite top grades. She struggled to find scholarships and grants, winning one with a poignant poem about her dilemma titled "Unidentified Identity".

She would look at her three younger siblings — all citizens because they were born here — and weep. Unlike her, they didn't have to worry about college, jobs, driving, traveling, planning a future.

Rivera is active in the New York State Youth Leadership Council, which offers training sessions on "coming out," lobbies lawmakers in Albany, and has an impressive website packed with information and practical advice for these youths on everything from health care and college applications to dating. It is one of many such organizations that have sprung up across the country, focused on helping youth, fighting deportations, and educating the public about the kind of stateless limbo in which they feel trapped.

"Oh my God, what are you doing? Are you trying to get us deported?" Rivera's mother cried after her daughter marched outside the Immigration and Customs Enforcement offices in downtown New York in 2010. Rivera was scared, too. But, like others, she has found comfort in community and safety in numbers — along with a growing sense of a need to take bigger risks in order to force change.

And so they are escalating their protests, testing the Obama administration's professed new policy of "prosecutorial discretion," designed to focus on the deportation of known criminals, not students or immigrants with no criminal record.

"When we challenge the system, the system doesn't know what to do with us," says Mohammad Abdollahi, a member of the National Immigrant Youth Alliance who has traveled around the country, organizing some of the boldest protests to date.

Abdollahi, 26, who came from Iran at the age of 3 and grew up in Ann Arbor, Mich., has a powerful personal story. As a gay man, he cannot return to a country where homosexuality is a crime punishable by imprisonment or even death — a fact he says he uses to good effect whenever he is threatened with deportation.

Today Abdollahi laughs when he recalls the early days of the movement in 2006 and 2007 — the furtive online conversations with other anonymous youth, afraid that if their identity was exposed immigration agents would come crashing through their doors.

"I was scared to use my real name, even in emails," he said.

Back then, the movement was focused mainly on the DREAM Act, which would allow a path to citizenship for some who graduated from high school and spent two years in college or in the military. The act has failed several times.

Disgusted by its failure in 2007, Abdollahi and others decided it was time for more radical action. They organized small "coming out" events in safe areas, like college campuses. The first big "Coming Out of the Shadows" rally was in Chicago in March 2010.

The movement quickly gathered strength, with young people actively fighting and publicizing deportation cases, organizing annual "coming out" rallies across the country, and — taking cues from the civil rights movement — getting arrested for acts of civil disobedience.

Abdollahi's first arrest came in May 2010 at the Tucson, Ariz., office of Republican Senator John McCain. Abdollahi and four other student activists, dressed in royal blue graduation gowns and caps, sat down in the reception area under an American flag and refused to leave. It was the movement's first act of civil disobedience.

McCain, who co-sponsored the DREAM Act in 2007, angered these activists by backing off during the 2008 election, saying he would not support it without tighter border controls.

Abdollahi spent the night at the Pima County jail before being transferred to an ICE processing facility. There, he says, he was locked in a room with about 20 men who had been rounded up in an ICE raid. They were shackled and led to a van to be driven to the border and deported. The "privileged undocumented students" Abdollahi says, were freed.

It was a lesson the movement took to heart. Over and over, when these young activists band together — with lawyers lined up and plenty of media coverage — they are let go.

They are winning some powerful support. There is now well-connected network of immigration lawyers, educators and other professionals offering their services for free. And last summer, at a boisterous "coming out" rally in Atlanta, civil rights veteran Rep. John Lewis of Georgia chanted "undocumented and unafraid" and told a cheering throng of young people that he was prepared to get arrested with them.

"The jails of Georgia, the jails of America are not large enough to hold all of us," Lewis thundered.

ICE issues a standard statement after such arrests and rallies, saying its new approach to enforcement "includes targeting criminal aliens and those who put public safety at risk, as well as those who threaten border security and the integrity of the immigration system." The new ICE policy, adopted a year ago, also calls for agents to consider how long someone has been in the country and whether that person's spouse or children are U.S. citizens.

Regardless of the policy change, even critics acknowledge it's simply not feasible to deport all of these youths. According to the nonpartisan American Immigration Council, an estimated 2.1 million young people might qualify for legal status under the DREAM Act. About 65,000 such students graduate from American high schools every year.

States vary widely in how they treat them. Thirteen allow them to qualify for in-state tuition rates. And three — Texas, New Mexico and California — allow them to receive government tuition aid.

But only a federal law can allow them to get green cards, so even those who manage to graduate find themselves stuck: qualified lawyers, engineers and teachers who can only work menial jobs, in the shadows, like their parents.

"I breathe American air, travel on American roads, eat American food, listen to American radio, watch American TV, dress in American clothing," says Alaa Mukahhal. "I have attended private and public American schools, read American authors, was taught by American teachers, speak with an American accent, passionately debate American politics and use American idioms and expressions. A piece of paper cannot define me. I am a Muslim, an Arab, a Palestinian and an American."

Mukahhal, 25, crashed headfirst into what she calls an "invisible wall" after graduating from the University of Illinois with a degree in architecture. Born in Kuwait of Palestinian parents who brought her to Chicago at the age of 6, Mukahhal only realized the implications of her status when she started applying for jobs. She considers herself luckier than others: Illinois allows in-state tuition for those living in the country without legal permission. But Mukahhal cannot work in her field, because she doesn't have a Social Security number or a work permit.

"My life was at a standstill," Mukahhal says. "My mind was withering. It is like being stuck in time, except I'm still aging."

Mukahhal, despairs when she hears the anti-immigrant rhetoric of politicians and others, who tell her to come into the country "the right way" or "get in line."

"People don't understand," says Mukahhal, who applied for asylum in the hope that an immigration judge will understand her situation. "There is no line for someone like me".

Critics say any path to citizenship for young people like Mukahhal is an amnesty, one that rewards and encourages the illegal behavior of their parents, and drains state and federally funded financial aid programs.

"It's amnesty for up to 2 million people," Rep. Lamar Smith, a Texas Republican said last year referring to the DREAM Act during a discussion on immigration reform. Smith called it "an open invitation to fraud."

"People say, go back to your country, but where are we supposed to go?" asks Tereza Lee, who was born in Brazil of Korean parents, who brought her to Chicago when she was 2. "This IS our home, the one we pledged allegiance to every morning before school."

Lee, now 29, holds a kind of iconic status among "dreamers", because, in a sense, she was the first to go public.

A gifted musician, Lee was accepted into major music colleges around the country, including Julliard. But she couldn't attend without financial aid, which she wasn't entitled to because of her status. Tearfully, Lee, then 18, "came out" for the first time — to her music teacher — who was so struck by her student's plight she called the office of Sen. Richard Durbin, a Democrat from Illinois. It was Lee's story that inspired Durbin to introduce the first version of DREAM Act in 2001.

"We need to be doing all we can to keep these talented, dedicated, American students here," Durbin said, "not wasting increasingly precious resources sending them away to countries they barely remember."

But many in the movement say it's not just star students who deserve the right to stay, but any young person who has grown up here, even those who don't go to college.

By her own admission, Keish Kim, of Roswell, Ga., who came from Korea when she was 8, is a good student, not a straight-A one. But, the 20-year-old says students with more modest grades and ambitions deserve a chance, too.

Wearing a scarlet U — for undocumented — Kim gave tearful speech before the Georgia Board of Regents last November asking it to rescind a new policy that effectively bans these students from the state's top five universities and colleges. They can attend other public colleges only if they pay out-of-state tuition.

"I just want to be in a stable educational environment, where I can learn," Kim said.

To her great joy, she and others are finally getting that chance — at an "underground" university set up by educators and community activists after the Georgia policy was passed. The students meet in a secret location on Sundays, and study a rigorous — though uncredited — course taught by Georgia professors. They have named their school "Freedom University" after the freedom schools set up for blacks in the South during segregation.

Though being back in class has given her a renewed sense of confidence and purpose, Kim says her fears remain very real. She doesn't dare drive, afraid that if she is stopped in one of the counties participating in the "secure communities" program — which allows local police to check a person's immigration status — she could be deported. And since she went public, she has learned that some of her former teachers and friends consider her a criminal.

Anger at that sense of criminalization is a powerful force fueling the movement — and attracting new recruits. It was what drove 17-year-old Diane Martell of Bessemer, Ala., to get arrested last fall after the passage of the nation's harshest anti-illegal immigration law, one designed to make life so unbearable for people like her parents that they would voluntarily "self deport."

"It was like people just shut down," Martell said. "They didn't go out any more. It was like they were not human beings."

So the shy, bookish high school student, who dreams of studying medicine, did something she would have considered unimaginable a year ago.

She joined a group of out-of-state youth activists who flocked to the Alabama state Capitol. She sat down and blocked traffic, knowing she would be arrested, knowing she risked being deported to Mexico, a country her parents paid a "coyote" to smuggle them out of when she was 11.

She is very brave, her father said in Spanish.

But Martell, who was charged with disorderly conduct and released after a few hours, doesn't feel brave. She feels empowered. She says she is tired of watching the fear in her father's face every time he drives, tired of her mother begging her not to walk to school on the days the ICE van is parked down the street, tired of all the limits on her life.

"We are human beings," Martell says. "We are not criminals, and we are not aliens and we cannot just stay silent."

In Sanford, N.C., Cynthia Martinez felt such rage at a system so stacked against her, she bought a one-way ticket to Mexico, in the hope that, somehow she would find a legal way to return to the only home she has ever known.

North Carolina does not allow in-state tuition for these students, meaning they must pay prohibitive out-of-state rates." Why should I have to pay four times as much tuition, and register only after everyone else," asks Martinez, 21, who came from Mexico at 2. "It's Jim Crow, back of the bus treatment."

"If you are going, why not go with a bang," said her older sister, Viridiana, who is active in the movement. And so in March, wearing her "undocumented and unafraid" T-shirt, Martinez joined a group of activists who marched into a state legislative committee hearing on immigration. After listening to Republican State Rep. George Cleveland condemn "illegal aliens" as criminals and drug dealers, capable of little more than manual labor, Martinez stood up.

"I'm one of those criminals you are talking about," she cried. As she was hustled out and handcuffed, crying "I'm a North Carolinian," several committee members yelled "go home."

Martinez went home — to Sanford — where something unexpected happened. In her small hometown where she and her family had spent their lives trying to hide their status, neighbors approached her in the grocery store and at the fast food restaurant where she worked. They told her they hadn't understood how hard it was to be here illegally. They praised her courage and offered support.

It's one thing for strangers to embrace the movement. It is far more difficult for immigrant parents. Horrified by actions they view as self-destructive, many have bitter, tearful confrontations with their children.

Nineteen-year-old Dulce Guerrero came home after being arrested at a rally in Atlanta last year to find her father weeping and her mother angrier than she had ever been in her life. Mohammad Abdollahi said he simply doesn't discuss his activism with his parents, because they would find it shameful. Alaa Mukahhal says as much as she admires those who get arrested for the cause, she will not go that far because it would be too painful for her mother.

But others describe a growing understanding on the part of their parents, a sense that their children's fight is theirs, too. When Diane Martell was arrested in front of the Alabama capitol in March, her father was in the crowd. In Duluth, Ga., Nayeli Quezada, a 21-year-old Freedom University student, said that her activism had emboldened her parents to "come out" as well.

And in New York Alejandro Benitez accompanied his son, Rafael, to a "coming out" rally in March. The father brimmed with pride as he watched the 16-year-old tell the crowd at Union Square that he was "undocumented, unafraid and unapologetic." Benitez had never seen his quiet, reserved boy, who hopes to study engineering, so animated or so sure.

"Our generation, we were cowards," says Benitez, who left Mexico when Rafael was 6. "These young people, they are fighters."

Rafael's 17-year-old girlfriend, Coraima Veliz, whose family is Honduran, was watching, too. Rafael first "came out" to her a few months earlier, in a tearful, shameful confession, afraid she would break up with him once she heard that he was "illegal" — a word he never uses now.

She hugged him tight.

"There is nothing to be ashamed of," said the American-born Veliz. "It is not wrong. I know. My parents are undocumented, too."
 
I'm not particularly hardball when it comes to immigration but my jaw pretty much dropped the whole time I was reading this article. What do others think? My first thought was, I pay taxes and I'm supposed to help pay college tuition for someone who pretty much barged into my country against the law? My second thought was, I wonder if the American Indians felt the same way when someone else came barging into their country. What a mess.... :dunno:
Native Americans routinely adopted white orphans and raised them as their own, so this analogy falls just a little flat.
 
Eh, if your parents bring you into the US without documentation, it'd be mighty unfair to hold that against you.

The children of illegals is a tricky situation. Certainly the current immigration process have let them down.
 
@contre: Yes. I have to agree. The issue of children of illegals is a very tricky issue. They get caught in the middle. Perhaps it's sort of like if your parents were bank robbers and the state decided that because they were guilty that you are therefore guilty too.

@Traitorfish: So tell us a little more of what you think on the issue. Should children of illegal immigrants be given amnesty and made citizens? If so would that tend to give incentive to more people to violate immigration laws? Or are laws agaisnt illegal immigration unjust to begin with? As a "red" what is your take on all this?

EDIT: Would a moderator be so kind as to change the subject of this thread to "Let's Talk Illegal Immigration". Sorry for the mix up. I realize now the title isn't very becoming. Thanks.
 
@Traitorfish: So tell us a little more of what you think on the issue. Should children of illegal immigrants be given amnesty and made citizens? If so would that tend to give incentive to more people to violate immigration laws? Or are laws agaisnt illegal immigration unjust to begin with? As a "red" what is your take on all this?
Well, in my opinion the very existence of borders is an unconscionable act of violence against innocent human beings, so you might get some indication of where I lean on this.
 
I don't think I'm entitled to anything another human shouldn't have just because of what I was born as, or who I was born to, or where I was born. I was born in America, but I didn't have any say in that. Mexicans can't help that they were born in Mexico, or Indians in India, or Arabs in Arabia; they did nothing wrong, that shouldn't be punished. So I welcome all immigration. I am not entitled to a job in America just because I am an American, I should be entitled to a job because I am the best person for that job, and something silly like where I was born shouldn't have a thing to do with it.

It's a shame illegals don't pay as many taxes as we do, but that's not their fault and it's not a sin for them not to, it's the people who pass those abhorrent laws that don't let them become citizens fault and it's a blemish on those people.

@contre: Yes. I have to agree. The issue of children of illegals is a very tricky issue. They get caught in the middle. Perhaps it's sort of like if your parents were bank robbers and the state decided that because they were guilty that you are therefore guilty too.

If illegals are bankrobbers (assuming that's a negative thing), are their sins worse than the sins of the former slaves who stole gold from their former master's house after the Emancipation Proclamation?
 
It is fundamentally unjust to limit immigration beyond what is necessary for public safety. I am fine with health screenings to prevent the spread of epidemics and criminal background checks so as not to become a sanctuary for dangerous fugitives. It makes sense to charge a small fee to cover the costs of these safety measures. It is however completely unacceptable to require any visas, residency permits, or work permits, much less to impose quotas on how many of those can be issued to whom for what reasons.


I also oppose all forms of birthright citizenship. Ius Solis is only marginally less abhorrent than Ius Sanguinis. I don't think anyone should ever be granted citizenship without informed consent. Citizenship should be an actual signed contract, not some nebulous implied social contract.
 
I am not entitled to a job in America just because I am an American, I should be entitled to a job because I am the best person for that job, and something silly like where I was born shouldn't have a thing to do with it.

@Mango Elephant: What if you aren't the best person for that job? What if some guy from Shangri Lah just got off a ship in the harbor and went to your boss and demonstrated that he could do your job better than you could and your boss decided to hire him and get rid of you. Then what?

@Traitorfish: What about MagisterCultuum's point about limiting movement of criminals or people with contagious diseases? Would you limit their movement or would you open the borders up for all, bascially disolving the very existence of borders? How would that work without borders?
 
@Mango Elephant: What if you aren't the best person for that job? What if some guy from Shangri Lah just got off a ship in the harbor and went to your boss and demonstrated that he could do your job better than you could and your boss decided to hire him and get rid of you. Then what?

Then that's how the Free Market works.
 
It has been pretty well established that immigration strengthens the economy, and creates more jobs for most demographics of the population.

There is not one labor market, but several markets for different sorts of labor. Immigrants tend to provide mostly very low skill and very high skill labor, while native populations provide mostly moderately skilled labor. These are far more complimentary than competitive. It should also be remembered that while an immigrant drives down the demand for the type of labor he provides, he drives up demand for all the things he consumes.

It is true that it decreases the job opportunities for high school dropouts, but this is a relatively small demographic among those born in this country, and the harm that immigration causes them is much less than the benefit it provides to all the other groups.
 
@Traitorfish: What about MagisterCultuum's point about limiting movement of criminals or people with contagious diseases? Would you limit their movement or would you open the borders up for all, bascially disolving the very existence of borders? How would that work without borders?
Do national borders actually address those issues in an effective way? A contagious person can still move quite freely within the United States, which as you may be aware is rather big, so it doesn't seem obvious that they do.
 
If you and your family end up poor because there are no other open jobs you are qualified for and the economy is a little slow, are you going to say to yourself "That's how the Free Market Works" or would you be a little disgruntled?

I'd take advantage of relaxed migration laws and greater mobility to do what the Shangrilan did and move to where I can get a job.

Not that I'm an advocate for the Free Market, mind you; I'm a bit of a Red.
 
Do national borders actually address those issues in an effective way? A contagious person can still move quite freely within the United States, which as you may be aware is rather big, so it doesn't seem obvious that they do.

This is more relevant to island countries like Australia; then again, visitors aren't screened as rigorously as migrants.
 
Do national borders actually address those issues in an effective way? A contagious person can still move quite freely within the United States, which as you may be aware is rather big, so it doesn't seem obvious that they do.

Good point. Within a country it doesn't seem to do much.

What about language? How would you feel if millions of people from other parts of the world decided that Scotland was a nice place to live and just picked up and started moving there. Almost overnight 70% of the people around you speak languages you have no clue how to speak. Would you feel a bit alienated? I witnessed something similar when my home town became a metropolis for immigrants from all over the world. One day I sat down and realized I had become a minority in the place where I had grown up. Not an easy thing to accept, to me anyway.
 
What about language? How would you feel if millions of people from other parts of the world decided that Scotland was a nice place to live and just picked up and started moving there. Almost overnight 70% of the people around you speak languages you have no clue how to speak. Would you feel a bit alienated? I witnessed something similar when my home town became a metropolis for immigrants from all over the world. One day I sat down and realized I had become a minority in the place where I had grown up. Not an easy thing to accept, to me anyway.
I don't really see what business a person has using violence to protect a fragile sense of national identity.
 
My personal view is that immigration must benefit the country that's allowing it and that this consideration stands above everything else. There is no right of people from other countries (from outside the EU) to come here, no obligation on the side of the recipient country to allow in people it doesn't like or people doesn't want for one reason or the other. Illegal immigration should be considered a crime.

Developed countries should let in people with

a) useful skills
b) compatible culture

When they are in, the recipient country needs to strive to make their integration as smooth as possible to avoid future minority issues. This means helping them to master the language, adapt to the existing cultural norms, get further education, etc. The end goal should be assimilation, not multiculturalism.
 
The US should have a population that's rising at a rate sufficient to prevent demographic problems with pensions and other aging issues down the road. That isn't going to happen with domestic birth rates. So immigration in general should be allowed. As to what form and numbers that should take, the US is not a densely populated country. And so can take large numbers. However the people taken should be focused primarily on the most educated. Those will make the greatest contribution to the economy. But we also need the agricultural laborers, because we can't replace those out of citizens since the pay is so low and the work so miserable. We should not, I think, be accepting immigrants for most other unskilled work. We have plenty of people legally in the country for that. As for the children of immigrants that seek to go to college, we should want them to, any that can qualify for it. Because it is the educates workers we need the most in the long run.
 
I support the liberalisation of global trade: the free movement of goods, capital, labour and services. When we allow goods, capital, labour and services to move to where they are most productive, everybody wins. As has been said up-thread, that's how capitalism works. Any argument against opening borders to the free movement of labour is an argument against capitalism itself.
 
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