Liberals Protesting Democracy

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I am little doubtful here.

Why? The modern-day democratic republic was born with the USA. Its revolution spread to France, but once Louis's head was lopped off, monarchies attempted to crush to infant republic. The invading armies were stopped cold, and France counter attacked. Its leading general was Napoleon. Republicanism was in the air.
 
Look, we're going to have to accept this idiot as our president, but yeah, we're going to be pissed off about it.
 
But, back to it...what are these "any means necessary" that you advocate for? Since the protesters are not arming themselves, and aren't using their mighty god powers to move the blue chesspieces into harm's way you seem to be ignoring the question.

I have explained my position on this quite clearly several times already. If you haven't gotten it by now I can't help you.

And then they kept asking for his birth certificate.
And tried to repeal Obamacare more than sixty times.
And kept abusing the filibuster.
And refused to confirm his nominee for the supreme court.
Republicans seem to have adopted the viewpoint that a Democratic president is illegitimate and his policies are unconstitutional because he is a Democrat.

That sounds like politics as usual to me. I certainly don't recall congress marching in the streets of major cities across the country.

If the other sides now engages in obstructionuism, mass protests, civil disobedience and the occasional act of technically treason and cospiracy...
Good !
Anything less would be unilateral disarmament.

Since injecting race and gender into every issue worked out so well for you guys, I'm sure this kind of behaviour will work out equally as well if not better. Knock yourself out.


Well yeah, they are disproportionately young and in many cases believe their fundamental rights (even lives, in the case of BLM) are at risk.

Only if you assault cops.

Those sorts of people are more likely to be disruptive at rallies than a population that is disproportionately old. I could certainly point to the worst examples of behavior at Trump rallies - a lot of the liberal media did just that and used it to paint Trump supporters as bigots who chant racist slurs.

Most of which were paid liberal agitators. It came out in Wikileaks. Hillary's campaign paid them $1,500 each and also trained them on what to do. Also the people protesting the Trump rallies were far more violent than anything that happened inside. The police were always present and were even assaulted on occasion by liberal protestors. Trump supporters weren't showing up at Hillary events and doing these things.


Of course nearly all actual white bigots who voted did support Trump - a quick check of Stormfront will confirm that - and they were probably more likely to turn up to Trump rallies than the median Trump supporter.

So what? Who do you think minorities who hate white people vote for?

The Democrats.

Trump was also getting 10,000 to 20,000 people at tons of rallies. Many of them minorities. You can watch any one of his rallies on YouTube and see it for yourself. To suggest that a large segment of these people were white supremacists is out of touch.

You have to understand how propaganda works. If you take the worst examples of either side (in anything, not just politics) and present them as though they are typical, you build stereotypes that are used to drive wedges between people. The modern media and the internet are excellent tools for doing just that, and people have to see through it or we'll be stuck in an era of divisiveness and outrage forever. You, for instance, seem to think that the most obnoxious SJWs are typical liberals, and they're really not. It's just that those are the most vocal and most interested, and also (this is critical) you seek them out, because you really like arguing with them.

I understand fully how propaganda works. What you are not understanding is that the media isn't on the side of the right wing. They weren't on Trump's side. They weren't smearing Hillary supporters, or covering their violence or the fact that they were being paid to infiltrate Trump rallies and instigate disruptions. You believed everything the media and the polling told you and it was mostly all lies.

I also don't think all liberals are SJWs, but I think a lot of them are. A good 30%-35% most likely and I also think the more moderate leftys give the SJWs a free pass and enable their trashy behaviour because they like the fact that they do their dirty work. It has benefited them in the short term, but now it's starting to bite them in the butt because they've built a Frankenstein.

I also don't like arguing with SJWs. I think they're morons. I think this country would be far better off if they didn't exist, or at least weren't enabled by the left. I think they're very polarizing and that they're dragging this country down a path that is going to end in tears. I wish they could be reasoned with and I wish they were capable of behaving like civilized rational people.

Not at all - I would not be particularly happy about Clinton winning the electoral college while losing the popular vote. I'd see it as legitimate, but definitely a major reminder that the system needs to be changed.

I wouldn't have an issue with the process if that happened. The electoral college isn't perfect, but it's the best means to hold an election that we have, which gives all parts of the country representation. Ideally the person with the most seats would also win the popular vote and the majority of the time that is the case.

The view that the EC is an obsolete institution and that we should switch over to a national popular vote system has been supported by a wide majority of Americans for a very long time. I think it should be a system incorporating a runoff (preferably an instant runoff) if a candidate doesn't get a majority. I don't see any good reason that the US would be more likely to fall apart under a popular vote system than under the status quo. After all, nearly all countries that have a president (with power) do so by popular vote.

No, most countries have some version of an electoral college. Also as I said (which you didn't really address), the major downside of going solely by the popular vote is that the only parts of the country that actually receive representation are the large population centers.

The electoral college is just all the way around a better thought out system and the majority of the time the one who win the popular vote also wins the most seats, so I really don't see it as being an issue.
 
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Who was the last non-incumbent Republican president to win the popular vote?
 
Yeah, but the last two we pretty recent, and both Republican. You have to go all the way back to 1988 to find the last Republican who carried the popular vote (save for W Bush 2004, incumbent).
 
Yeah, but the last two we pretty recent, and both Republican. You have to go all the way back to 1988 to find the last Republican who carried the popular vote (save for W Bush 2004, incumbent).

Bush won the popular vote in his mid-term and before him Clinton was in office.
 
The protests are the signal that Trump lacks a mandate. The same happened when Bush II was appointed electee, who governed as if he had the popular mandate. America doesn't change parties mid-war, but come 2006 and 2008 we switched.
 
Civman starts the thread lauding the wisdom of the democratic process. Five pages in, he's listing all the people he thinks should be shot without trial.

Hard to take a thread seriously, with that rapid a degeneration in tone.

The protests are the signal that Trump lacks a mandate. The same happened when Bush II was appointed electee, who governed as if he had the popular mandate. America doesn't change parties mid-war, but come 2006 and 2008 we switched.
There does seem to be a struggle- I'm tempted to say a refusal- to acknowledge that simply because a person has assumed an office by legitimately democratic means, it does not follow that everything they do while in office has democratic legitimacy. These protests are, as you say, a reminder of that distinction.
 
The protests are the signal that Trump lacks a mandate.

It signals that the left lacks civility and only respect democracy when it suits them.

Civman starts the thread lauding the wisdom of the democratic process. Five pages in, he's listing all the people he thinks should be shot without trial.

Hard to take a thread seriously, with that rapid a degeneration in tone.

I know the left hates it when people say they support keeping law and order and won't allow cops and innocent people to get murdered by uncivilized goons.

Honestly, it really doesn't matter what you guys think about this election. The left has no power in our government for at least 4 years and after that they'll never have the supreme court in this life time and I gotta say you guys really do deserve it.
 
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Trump controls Congress, he will control the Supreme Court. All court cases against him, all he has to do is call in a favor, agree to hear the case, and rule in Trump's favor. Child rape? The Supreme Court can hear it.

He controls all 3 branches. The U.S. is done.
 
When you win against the person who receives more votes, you didn't win democratically. A president under these circumstances can't think winning the electoral college gives him a mandate in spite of losing the popular vote. The protests are the demonstration of this fact. This is exactly what respecting democracy looks like.

Peaceful protests by the side with the most votes.
 
Honestly it really doesn't matter what you guys think about this election the left has no power in our government for at least 4 years and after that they'll never have the supreme court in this life time and I gotta say you guys really do deserve it.
Dang, does that mean I've made the list?
 
Civman starts the thread lauding the wisdom of the democratic process. Five pages in, he's listing all the people he thinks should be shot without trial.

Hard to take a thread seriously, with that rapid a degeneration in tone.

Beyond the bolded degeneration is impossible.
 
When you win against the person who receives more votes, you didn't win democratically. A president under these circumstances can't think winning the electoral college gives him a mandate in spite of losing the popular vote. The protests are the demonstration of this fact. This is exactly what respecting democracy looks like.

Peaceful protests by the side with the most votes.

You're being a sore loser, period. The rules were known and accepted before the election. Because you don't like the outcome now you claim that the result is not democratically legitimate.

This is a completely wrong-headed way to deal with the result of this election, wasting your time being a sore loser. There are far more useful things to be done, politically.
 
You're being a sore loser, period. The rules were known and accepted before the election. Because you don't like the outcome now you claim that the result is not democratically legitimate.

The process isn't democratic. It isn't intended to be. Unfortunately that intention has had bad consequences, again.

Since I've been in favor of dissolving the US I'm not complaining about the process, but facts are facts...when the person who got the most votes doesn't get elected the process isn't democracy.
 
The process isn't democratic. It isn't intended to be. Unfortunately that intention has had bad consequences, again.

Since I've been in favor of dissolving the US I'm not complaining about the process, but facts are facts...when the person who got the most votes doesn't get elected the process isn't democracy.

Hey, look, the guy who insisted that the most hated woman in america was a good candidate shows up again. Still denying reality, I see, just on different subjects now. Democracy isn't simply people vote and the one with the most votes win. It's people unanimously agreeing on rules for election that grant everyone a vote, and respect those rules. Whether some votes get weighted more or less depends of the institutional framework of the polity: federations are like that, they require tweaks to make sure that states don't democratically decide to leave.

But I'm also for the breakup of all huge polities: the EU, the US, Russia, China, etc. On that I can agree with you. Democracy may work on a federal level with some tweaks, but a smaller scale allows for better representation. Having said that, I can see why the US has the federal system it has, and how it works better (if the US is to continue existing) than a simple national winner-takes-all system would.
 
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