GreyFox
Make it so ...
So you want me to hold on until you can comment? We have been playing at a pretty fast pace anyway .... (with cosmic OOP and everyone playing within 24hrs or so).
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LK130 - Ottomans, Monarchy, Balanced Map
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
I kinda like the fast pace but we need to define our strategy and stick to it. It seems we missed the curency opportunity LK pointed. It is rather unfortunate.
As for dealing peace right now, Shaka would not be crippled enough to not come back for a revenge, me think. Even if Ulundi is costly, i suppose we can takle it. Sue for peace just after though
I have not looked at the save, but could we stir our brothers in faith against Ghandi ?
Are HG still open ?
As for dealing peace right now, Shaka would not be crippled enough to not come back for a revenge, me think. Even if Ulundi is costly, i suppose we can takle it. Sue for peace just after though
I have not looked at the save, but could we stir our brothers in faith against Ghandi ?
Are HG still open ?
ok looked at the save.
Frederick will still trade curency for CoL and 90g
HG are still open and can be constructed in 12 turns with a bit of MM. this would solve our hapiness problem
Ulundi is probably the GW home, and our stack in UMun must be big enough to take it. Shaka has also probably another city between it and Qwa from the shape of borders. This one should be taken and/or razed too. Then we can stop the war.
Ulundi could be used as a semi decent GP-farm, and if in has indeed GW would be a source of the very useful GE
Brennus would give us 1 happiness ressources for our pare stone
Wont go yet against Ghandi though
What do you think ?
Frederick will still trade curency for CoL and 90g
HG are still open and can be constructed in 12 turns with a bit of MM. this would solve our hapiness problem
Ulundi is probably the GW home, and our stack in UMun must be big enough to take it. Shaka has also probably another city between it and Qwa from the shape of borders. This one should be taken and/or razed too. Then we can stop the war.
Ulundi could be used as a semi decent GP-farm, and if in has indeed GW would be a source of the very useful GE
Brennus would give us 1 happiness ressources for our pare stone
Wont go yet against Ghandi though
What do you think ?
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Curious, how does HG solve the "happiness" problem? Anyway, we are in HR, a simple build of a unit would solve the happiness problem. For that matter, I am somewhat dissatisfied with the production of some cities, for example delaying a Conf Miss which is due in a turn for a Hamman .... not necessary, a simple redistribution of troops would solve happiness problem.
I would have made the deal with Frederick, depending on how many Civ already know CoL. (seems Ragnar is the only one that know CoL).
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I would have made the deal with Frederick, depending on how many Civ already know CoL. (seems Ragnar is the only one that know CoL).
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sorry, wrong edit of my post. this should have gone with the brennus bit.
HG is still a strong move methink.
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New Updates
Financially we still can afford to move forward vs. the Zulu. 60% science at a positive cash flow allows us to take more cities. Shaka's price for peace doesn't impress me. All he will offer is two junk techs that I wouldn't take because of WFYABTA.
My nit pick on AK's turn is why do we have workers within two squares of Shaka's border with roads in place? We have a nice work force, and I really want to keep it.
We can still trade with last place Frederick to get currency. Since that immediately improves the economy, can we do so on turn 0? Since we are trading away code of laws, we should also leverage calendar from it. This lets us get silks on-line ASAP thanks to conquered Zulu territory. I would get the silks by Konya on-line ASAP to have a pillage-proof source.
With the above moves we can delay the Hammam in Edirne get the needed troops faster to assault Ulundi. That should break the back of the Zulu. We don't need catapults, but stack defending axes and spears.
With 2 holy cities we need to get some cities freed up to spread religion, so priority number one is to push on the end the Zulu war soon.
EDIT: I would like to settler the GG in Edirine. With CS the production in the city will get better from all the plains. It looks like our HE city at this point and a GG in the HE is very powerful.
Financially we still can afford to move forward vs. the Zulu. 60% science at a positive cash flow allows us to take more cities. Shaka's price for peace doesn't impress me. All he will offer is two junk techs that I wouldn't take because of WFYABTA.
My nit pick on AK's turn is why do we have workers within two squares of Shaka's border with roads in place? We have a nice work force, and I really want to keep it.
We can still trade with last place Frederick to get currency. Since that immediately improves the economy, can we do so on turn 0? Since we are trading away code of laws, we should also leverage calendar from it. This lets us get silks on-line ASAP thanks to conquered Zulu territory. I would get the silks by Konya on-line ASAP to have a pillage-proof source.
With the above moves we can delay the Hammam in Edirne get the needed troops faster to assault Ulundi. That should break the back of the Zulu. We don't need catapults, but stack defending axes and spears.
With 2 holy cities we need to get some cities freed up to spread religion, so priority number one is to push on the end the Zulu war soon.
EDIT: I would like to settler the GG in Edirine. With CS the production in the city will get better from all the plains. It looks like our HE city at this point and a GG in the HE is very powerful.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Yes. Report in 3~4 hrs (remember its only 7:30pm on my side of the globe).
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Inherited Business
First order of business is to place the confused missus back in Ankara and the cat back in Edirne .... we really don't want to delay them for Hammam.
Next is to settle the sleeping general in Edirne. This will be Heroic Epic city if we can get more hammers to it.
Finally, my last act in the inherited turn is to trade:
Calendar actually immediately solves our happiness problem in Edirne and Ankara since Shaka had graciously provided us with sugar plantation in his former lands. Thanks, Shaka, you are the best!
Research
Once Civil Service is in, we revolted to bureaucracy .... afterall, we are expanding. Nothing fits more than to expand the bureaucracy to accommodate our expanding bureaucracy, so that's what Spock told me. And Lee would be mad at me .... cos I redo what I did in my last turn, changed the cottage back to a farm in Ankara and take it one step further to chain irrigated the corn
I headed for Metal Casting next, and we are going for Machinery right now. With new found wealth from the tech trade and war loot, we can research pretty fast at 100%.
War
We moved towards Ulundi with cats and swords, and a lucky cat strike brings down the city.
The world most fortunate feline gained a whole 7exp from that single battle, me thinks:
This also reveals the city of Nodwengu, which I noticed was protected by axes. Thus I pulled our chariot there ... and boom, it was now reduced to a pile of stones to be awashed by the coastal tides.
There indeed is a city of Bulawayo where the previous psychic player posted a sign which foretold its existence. Bad news is it is protected by 3 longbows.
It is gonna take a lot of suicide cats to bring the city down. I actually would suggest keeping that city tho.
>>> The Save (650AD) <<<
First order of business is to place the confused missus back in Ankara and the cat back in Edirne .... we really don't want to delay them for Hammam.
Next is to settle the sleeping general in Edirne. This will be Heroic Epic city if we can get more hammers to it.
Finally, my last act in the inherited turn is to trade:
Calendar actually immediately solves our happiness problem in Edirne and Ankara since Shaka had graciously provided us with sugar plantation in his former lands. Thanks, Shaka, you are the best!
Research
Once Civil Service is in, we revolted to bureaucracy .... afterall, we are expanding. Nothing fits more than to expand the bureaucracy to accommodate our expanding bureaucracy, so that's what Spock told me. And Lee would be mad at me .... cos I redo what I did in my last turn, changed the cottage back to a farm in Ankara and take it one step further to chain irrigated the corn
I headed for Metal Casting next, and we are going for Machinery right now. With new found wealth from the tech trade and war loot, we can research pretty fast at 100%.
War
We moved towards Ulundi with cats and swords, and a lucky cat strike brings down the city.
The world most fortunate feline gained a whole 7exp from that single battle, me thinks:
This also reveals the city of Nodwengu, which I noticed was protected by axes. Thus I pulled our chariot there ... and boom, it was now reduced to a pile of stones to be awashed by the coastal tides.
There indeed is a city of Bulawayo where the previous psychic player posted a sign which foretold its existence. Bad news is it is protected by 3 longbows.
It is gonna take a lot of suicide cats to bring the city down. I actually would suggest keeping that city tho.
>>> The Save (650AD) <<<
Spoiler Autolog :
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And Lee would be mad at me .... cos I redo what I did in my last turn, changed the cottage back to a farm in Ankara and take it one step further to chain irrigated the corn
Well I hope that is a joke...
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I'm serious, along the river, there are a few cottages. Only one has been worked on. We really would do better with one of them farmed to chain irrigate the corn. Until we can grow to a size to work on all the tiles, I really don't see a point in cottaging the tile without someone to work in that cottage.
i agree with the move. farming this tile + the plain is worth 1 
on the ressource tile and we have 4 cottages unworked right now. later on, this may be replaced but now it is ok.
I advocate for fast growth, and ideally with a granary the best rate is +5 (there is a very good article about that in strat&tips). But this must be not done at the expense of either hammers or gold. Some farms are unavoidable for that, and will come handy when you want to regrow after a whip.
Now, do we stop the war after Bulaw... or do we finish Shaka ?
For me, the objectives of war are already met, and we may push it too far by going further.
on the ressource tile and we have 4 cottages unworked right now. later on, this may be replaced but now it is ok.I advocate for fast growth, and ideally with a granary the best rate is +5
(there is a very good article about that in strat&tips). But this must be not done at the expense of either hammers or gold. Some farms are unavoidable for that, and will come handy when you want to regrow after a whip.Now, do we stop the war after Bulaw... or do we finish Shaka ?
For me, the objectives of war are already met, and we may push it too far by going further.
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We will have to agree to disagree. I think this move was a mistake, and nothing will convince me otherwise. With emphasis food set for the governor, that city has way too much food that last time I looked at the game.
Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I plan to sign peace after getting Bulaw when I play in a few hours. We may want to eventually take out the rest of Shaka, but have accomplished our goal for now. The Zulu are crippled; we gained dyes, and sugar (IIRC) and have a much stronger empire. We need time to rebuild the economy we new courts and markets. Not to mention spreading our religion to get border expansions and more cash.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
from what I recall I was 99.4% sure he had nothing to grab them with.
that's why I went so slow in uMgun.
No idea what I was up to, but IIRC there was some plan.
I haven't done any actual math, but is a hamman cheaper than a market? our main issue is happiness. yes, I understand the market bonuses. I bring this up merely for discussion in light of our short term goals.
Strategically, we should discuss who is next on the hit parade.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
re: the cottage vs farm @ ankara: since nothing will convince you, I'm not going to try 
. But I OTOH is willing to be convinced as to why a cottage is better when there are at least 2 other cottages in the opposite banks that are not worked? (er, that is apart from the obvious reason of "if you farm that cottage again, I am going to kick you out of LK series" )
re: Kutzov: you inserted in the Hammams because those cities are unhappy. BUt as I explained, it is way too late for this kind of reactive control ... it is better to continue the build with a whip, or in this case since we are in HR, to continue with the production of troop which will temporarily resolve the redshirt.
I am fine with stopping after taking Bulawayo. The more immediate question is whether we keep Bulawayo or raze it. It is a decent city site. Getting peace after that give us a chance to build the Heroic Epic, and produce a few maces (machinery should be in soon) to go for a final kill.
long-term wise: after we eliminated Shaka, I think the obvious next target will be Gandhi. He is close, he is cautious with us, he is the score leader => he is screaming "Attack me if you dare!"
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. But I OTOH is willing to be convinced as to why a cottage is better when there are at least 2 other cottages in the opposite banks that are not worked? (er, that is apart from the obvious reason of "if you farm that cottage again, I am going to kick you out of LK series" )re: Kutzov: you inserted in the Hammams because those cities are unhappy. BUt as I explained, it is way too late for this kind of reactive control ... it is better to continue the build with a whip, or in this case since we are in HR, to continue with the production of troop which will temporarily resolve the redshirt.
I am fine with stopping after taking Bulawayo. The more immediate question is whether we keep Bulawayo or raze it. It is a decent city site. Getting peace after that give us a chance to build the Heroic Epic, and produce a few maces (machinery should be in soon) to go for a final kill.
long-term wise: after we eliminated Shaka, I think the obvious next target will be Gandhi. He is close, he is cautious with us, he is the score leader => he is screaming "Attack me if you dare!"
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http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK130_AD-0875.CivWarlordsSave
650 AD
If I set Ankara to pure food the city is at an utterly absurd +9 food. Ankara has no problem with growth, and I maintain my position that the irrigation to the wheat was wasteful.
At Edirne that is city is shield heavy tiles with little food, and we are building a workshop. I cancel that for a farm on the plains tiles.
I question the farm by Bursa, but leave it alone. We can already configure this city to an excessively high +7 food.
With zero military under construction, there is no question Bulawayo is the end of the line for the first round against Shaka.
I send civil service to Frederick for Feudalism. I send him calendar for horseback riding.
(IT) One the very first turn I get the message you can't continue building the Hanging Garden. I didn't see a completion pop up. Even checking the ugly auto log I don't see a message about the Hanging Gardens.
665 AD
Well Germany stole the HG from in 635 AD. I have no idea why we didn't get a notice.
680 AD
The bombardment of Bulawayo begins. When I look at the absurd odds of 1% there is no question we need to knock the walls down.
695 AD
I whip a library in Ulundi to avoid starvation.
725 AD
It cost a lot of catapults as they forgot how to retreat, but we capture Bulawayo.
Shaka is a joke now with three cities. We can't get any useful techs, so all I get is some token cash.
I reset most of our cities to food happy growth mode.
755 AD
(IT) I start research on archery so that we can actual build some longbows.
770 AD
We now have 6 CR maces.
(IT) The next research project is drama. It would be nice to have the culture slider during war.
800 AD
Ragnar just settled a stupid city below Ulundi trying to claim the ivory. We are going to get close border penalties soon enough.
815 AD
(IT) The next research project is paper.
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New Updates
We are in builder mode to get our cities up to speed. I got several forges built my round, and HE is under construction. We still need income multipliers in our holy cities.
After the theater to improve culture at Ankara, we should go into heavy missionary mode.
Long term I see:
1) Eventually war with India. We are nowhere close to ready at this time, but he is becoming a run away tech leader.
2) Convert Ragnar to Confucianism mostly to get Izzy to hate him.
Roster
LKendter
Lukep (currently playing)
Cosmichail (skipped x 2 - heading toward dropped)
We will need to plan for our next GP before AK's turn.
Admiral Kutzov (on deck)
GreyFox
Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
Win target: Open, but I would like a domination win soon.
Planned wars - None
Small wonders
Heroic Epic - Edirne
Globe Theater -
Wall Street -
Oxford -
Forbidden Palace -
National Epic - We are still trying to figure out where our GP farm will be.
Iron Works -
650 AD
If I set Ankara to pure food the city is at an utterly absurd +9 food. Ankara has no problem with growth, and I maintain my position that the irrigation to the wheat was wasteful.
At Edirne that is city is shield heavy tiles with little food, and we are building a workshop. I cancel that for a farm on the plains tiles.
I question the farm by Bursa, but leave it alone. We can already configure this city to an excessively high +7 food.
With zero military under construction, there is no question Bulawayo is the end of the line for the first round against Shaka.
I send civil service to Frederick for Feudalism. I send him calendar for horseback riding.
(IT) One the very first turn I get the message you can't continue building the Hanging Garden. I didn't see a completion pop up. Even checking the ugly auto log I don't see a message about the Hanging Gardens.
665 AD
Well Germany stole the HG from in 635 AD. I have no idea why we didn't get a notice.
680 AD
The bombardment of Bulawayo begins. When I look at the absurd odds of 1% there is no question we need to knock the walls down.
695 AD
I whip a library in Ulundi to avoid starvation.
725 AD
It cost a lot of catapults as they forgot how to retreat, but we capture Bulawayo.
Shaka is a joke now with three cities. We can't get any useful techs, so all I get is some token cash.
I reset most of our cities to food happy growth mode.
755 AD
(IT) I start research on archery so that we can actual build some longbows.
770 AD
We now have 6 CR maces.
(IT) The next research project is drama. It would be nice to have the culture slider during war.
800 AD
Ragnar just settled a stupid city below Ulundi trying to claim the ivory. We are going to get close border penalties soon enough.
815 AD
(IT) The next research project is paper.
=======================
New Updates
We are in builder mode to get our cities up to speed. I got several forges built my round, and HE is under construction. We still need income multipliers in our holy cities.
After the theater to improve culture at Ankara, we should go into heavy missionary mode.
Long term I see:
1) Eventually war with India. We are nowhere close to ready at this time, but he is becoming a run away tech leader.
2) Convert Ragnar to Confucianism mostly to get Izzy to hate him.
Roster
LKendter
Lukep (currently playing)
Cosmichail (skipped x 2 - heading toward dropped)
We will need to plan for our next GP before AK's turn.
Admiral Kutzov (on deck)
GreyFox
Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
Win target: Open, but I would like a domination win soon.
Planned wars - None
Small wonders
Heroic Epic - Edirne
Globe Theater -
Wall Street -
Oxford -
Forbidden Palace -
National Epic - We are still trying to figure out where our GP farm will be.
Iron Works -
it could be good time to take the barb city in the north.
If it is big enough it could replace the future city site. not as good but could do.
I intend to push conf missionaries to ragnar, and jewish ones to our own cities. This is 2 fold strategy, feed our shrines, but in ragnar case, also make him convert later on the road.
Uludi, pre biology can feed 6 specialists. could be a rather nice GP farm until
we take something better. Plus it has good production.
Notamba (still in shaka hands) is a bit better but should we wait ?
Nothing in Ghandi's land strike me as particulary good.
Bibracte or Berlin can be probably our late one.
Any comment ? i will play in 12H or so
If it is big enough it could replace the future city site. not as good but could do.
I intend to push conf missionaries to ragnar, and jewish ones to our own cities. This is 2 fold strategy, feed our shrines, but in ragnar case, also make him convert later on the road.
Uludi, pre biology can feed 6 specialists. could be a rather nice GP farm until
we take something better. Plus it has good production.
Notamba (still in shaka hands) is a bit better but should we wait ?
Nothing in Ghandi's land strike me as particulary good.
Bibracte or Berlin can be probably our late one.
Any comment ? i will play in 12H or so
GreyFox
Make it so ...
The problem is, there is only one Nat Epic. So we can't shift our GP farm around like you suggested
I am fine with Ulundi actually, me think Gp-Farm should be enacted as early as possible to reap the most optimal benefit.Shouldn't we be planning to restart the Zulu campaign and finish off Shaka in the short term?
Well, if we run later pacifism, we can have 2. I'm used to do that.The problem is, there is only one Nat Epic. So we can't shift our GP farm around like you suggested
Depends of the seeked victory condition though. If we aim toward Dom or conquest, it is not worth it.
methink not during my turnset.
What do you think about the barb city ?
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Depends on its size, if it has >4 pop, maybe can consider keeping. Else, producing a settler on our own isn't such a big deal now.
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