Moar Units Mod

MOAR Units Mod 1.2

BALANCE ISSUE

After playing a few games as Spain (actually trying about 15 and playing 3, bcs Spain starting bias is mainly tundra, desert and very aggresive neighbours) I must say that with Tercios and Knights of Calatrava this civ is completely overpowered and steamrolls through medieval-reneissance like a goddamn religious fanatic it is.

You see, the problem is Spain has their vanilla Conquistador which is a typical op UU: bonus from Spains UA, bonus from missionaries and suddenly you have +13 power compared to other musketmen. And you don't need niter (because I guess they shoot with faith or some poor martyrs ashes). And well, let's say this is fine since its well composed with Philips and Spains UA.

And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Tercios, they have great graphics and fill the ridiculous three eras gap between Pikemen and AT (btw why have you decided on not making them upgradable from Pikemen? for someone who likes to keep his old veteran units, this hurts alot). But 60 power is very much. It means that they are only 10 points weaker than Infantry; they are resource free, so they can just outnumber enemy Musketmen, and even without superior numbers their raw power is higher.

And Knights of Calatrava, they are fine, nicely balanced with iron requirement, but...

The problem is not any of these particular units, the problem is that they all become available in 2 subsequent eras, by almost subsequent techs at that, AND they keep their power for a long time, at least 2 eras (at least two former).

And this is not a single civ issue, most typically classical civs like Rome, Greece and Sumeria have all UU in one era, making them terrible neighbours in early just because anything you throw at them will be just technically weaker than their UUs.
 
Only a very minor detail, but there is some clipping with the Rifleman's hat:

unit_rm.jpg


As I said, nothing big, still wanted to mention it just in case there is a smaller/ slimmer head available.
Maybe the same that is used in vanilla in conjunction with these hats?
 
BALANCE ISSUE +1

Started several games on Emperor with friendly neighbourhood Gandhi nearby. So the Varu is a pain in the *** and that's ok, but now India gets the Mughal Sowar not long after. Not only doesn't the Mughal Sowar require any iron, they also have 53 combat strength wich outshines other UU counterparts like the Gendarme and the Mamluk. In my games India dominaties the playfield early medieval era. They already pack a defensive punch with the Varu...and then comes the Moghal Sowar wich can be a devastating offensive uppercut. What's the idea behind this?

MINOR ISSUE

The Sumerian Phalanx have the regular melee unit promotion path while using the 8 Ages of War mod. Is this due to mod conflict or does the Phalanx not follow the spearman promotion path by choice? If so, why?

COMPLIMENT

I would not have registered to the forum and give feedback if I didn't enjoy this much so much. So thank you very much! I really like some small touches like the synergy between Phalanx and the Ziggurats and the Ghazi's inviting the Arabian CIV towards religous conquest. Keep up the good work.
 
MINOR ISSUE

The Sumerian Phalanx have the regular melee unit promotion path while using the 8 Ages of War mod. Is this due to mod conflict or does the Phalanx not follow the spearman promotion path by choice? If so, why?

Does it cause Pikemen to inherit melee promotions or lose them at all after uprgading from Phalanx?
 
And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Tercios, they have great graphics and fill the ridiculous three eras gap between Pikemen and AT (btw why have you decided on not making them upgradable from Pikemen? for someone who likes to keep his old veteran units, this hurts alot).

Pikeman -> Tercio can't be done unfortunately. Each unit can only upgrade into one and one only unit which means that unique units that don't replace anything can't be upgraded into. One solution would be to have Tercio replace Pikeman but be available later but then Spain wouldn't be able to make Pikemen at all.

But 60 power is very much. It means that they are only 10 points weaker than Infantry; they are resource free, so they can just outnumber enemy Musketmen, and even without superior numbers their raw power is higher.

I'm going to nerf the Tercio's down to 51 strength and make them require Niter.

Does it cause Pikemen to inherit melee promotions or lose them at all after uprgading from Phalanx?

This is a bug. Phalanx should be Anti Cavalry promo class.

Started several games on Emperor with friendly neighbourhood Gandhi nearby. So the Varu is a pain in the *** and that's ok, but now India gets the Mughal Sowar not long after. Not only doesn't the Mughal Sowar require any iron, they also have 53 combat strength wich outshines other UU counterparts like the Gendarme and the Mamluk. In my games India dominaties the playfield early medieval era. They already pack a defensive punch with the Varu...and then comes the Moghal Sowar wich can be a devastating offensive uppercut. What's the idea behind this?

Yeah, I'm nerfing the Mughal Sowar back to 48 and adding the Iron requirement to them. Just need to think of a nice special ability for them.

Only a very minor detail, but there is some clipping with the Rifleman's hat:

Will be fixed in the next update. :)
 
Yeah, I'm nerfing the Mughal Sowar back to 48 and adding the Iron requirement to them. Just need to think of a nice special ability for them.

Maybe something related to Stepwells and/or Holy Sites in friendly territory to flesh out more of a defensive theme?

Edit: What about this?

+10 Healing on Stepwells and 50% defeated unit strength as Faith when within X tiles of non-conquered (assuming that's possible) city centers.
 
I really like your mod , its best for CIVI right now

What I was thinking is when you add enough unique units to certain civs you should maybe just add more units to game for all civs. Right now game is missing some really must have units for civ game like WW1 tank , and it would be great if we have diferent types of some units (like light and heavy tanks , close air-support and air-supperiority fighter planes etc) ...

This is just my toughts , when you make maybe 2 uniqe units per civ to start adding just more basic units to game

Anyway great job for now
 
Deliverator updated [Civ VI] Moar Units Mod with a new update entry:

Moar Units Update 0.7

Gameplay Changes

* Incorporated changes from Expanded Recon Class by ET1990.
- Recon line is now: Scout > Explorer (Cartography) > Ranger > Sniper (Advanced Ballistics)
- Explorer Abilities: Ignores movement penalties for crossing rivers and disembarking.
- Sniper Abilities: Cannot move then attack on same turn. +1 combat range when on hills. +12 ranged strength vs. non-heavy-cavalry land units.
- Recon Promotion tree changes: Spyglass and Guerilla swap places and Ambush now only provides...

Read the rest of this update entry...
 
Thanks for the update!
First of all: lol @ the poor guy who has to lug around all of the Explorer's stuff. :lol:

Please don't get me wrong, but I must admit that while I really enjoyed all of your updates a lot so far, I'm a bit skeptical about this one.
The incorporation of the new recon units is great and something the game really needed!

But the replacement of a perfectly fine unit model like the Machine Gun with something that is an altered duplicate of another unit... hmm... I don't know! :undecide: Of course the attack range of 2 tiles should be standard (that's how I always played Civ5, and it was one of the first things I changed when Civ6 was released), but don't you think this works with the standard model as well? Sure it would be nice if other units could dynamically block the attack range just like terrain features (forests, hills..) do, but when this isn't possible, can't we just imagine that the troops between the MG and their target are taking cover or step aside a bit? :D

Then there is the Maceman: While I really welcome this addition to fill the gap between the Swordsman and the Musketman, it somehow doesn't look like the technological advancement over the Swordsman to me, especially since he is using the same weapon as the ancient Warrior and also looks more like some tribal warrior right now. :/ I know that without the SDK your options to customize things like this are really limited, but what about using something like the Longswordsman from Civ5 instead?
What I have in mind is maybe the Cataphract's body and head with the Templar's sword! That would really look like some medieval savage, don't you think? :)

Anyway I'm sorry if this post sounds like a lot of criticism, that wasn't my intention!
 
Then there is the Maceman: While I really welcome this addition to fill the gap between the Swordsman and the Musketman, it somehow doesn't look like the technological advancement over the Swordsman to me, especially since he is using the same weapon as the ancient Warrior and also looks more like some tribal warrior right now. :/ I know that without the SDK your options to customize things like this are really limited, but what about using something like the Longswordsman from Civ5 instead?
What I have in mind is maybe the Cataphract's body and head with the Templar's sword! That would really look like some medieval savage, don't you think? :)

Anyway I'm sorry if this post sounds like a lot of criticism, that wasn't my intention!

Actually blunt or mace-pointy weapons were pretty common in late medieval period due to increase in armor quality and incapability of swords to pierce through said armor.
That said I am starting the game RIGHT NOW to see how they look. ;)
 
Actually blunt or mace-pointy weapons were pretty common in late medieval period due to increase in armor quality and incapability of swords to pierce through said armor.
That said I am starting the game RIGHT NOW to see how they look. ;)

Yeah I know, but they are using these wooden maces from the Warriors, which are the only ones available right now I think..
Deliverator added Screenshots with his update, so you can also see all the units there. :)
 
Two things: What infantry models did you use for the sniper, and a request could you find a way to use the guns/people on the American Rough Rider for a american rifleman replacement(1900s US Marine) and or use the weapon they carry for the rifleman instead of the musket as I believe it fits in better. Thanks
 
Heyho,
I love your mod and i also use the No Quitters Mod Pack (its also very popular, just not on this site), which is only available over their google doc document. It probably is the best rebalancing mod out there and I would love it if you make a sub mod of this compatible with it. The only mod out of this mod pack which creates problems is the NQ Wars Mod. To make is easy for you here is a list of what your mod needs to change:
-All Custom Units need to follow the NQ Wars Upgrade Tree.
-All General Units of this mod need to be included in the NQ Wars Upgrade Tree.
-I am not sure how the NQ Wars mod handles it, but you might need decrease the production cost of all MOAR Units accordingly to the way the mod does it.
-The mods lets Horse cavalry units suffer from a 10 combat penalty when attacking cities. Depending on how it was done this also might need to be adjusted for MOAR horse cavalry units.

The upgrade tree goes as the following:
"Added new lancer unit at siege tactics, 55 melee strength anti cav unit with 3 movement. Base cost of 280. Pikeman upgrade to it, requires horse and upgrades to AT crew.

Added composite bowman unit at mathematics, 22 melee strength, 32 ranged strength and 2 range, base cost of 80.

Horsemen and Cavalry now heavy cav units, upgrade path for heavy cav is now:-
Heavy Chariot > Horseman > Knight > Cavalry > Tanks, etc.

Helicopter now an anti cav unit and moved to composites."

For a more detailed read the what the mod changes: here
 
Oh man, those recon changes are so good. Nice to see that line being fleshed out as it's terrible in vanilla gameplay. I second @Lynnes, worst job in the world might be lugging the explorer's pack for him. Glorious.
 
Thanks for adding Explorers. I guess they are a bit expensive though, takes a very long time for them to be produced. Well, at least they don't die so easily.
 
the replacement of a perfectly fine unit model like the Machine Gun with something that is an altered duplicate of another unit... hmm... I don't know! :undecide: Of course the attack range of 2 tiles should be standard (that's how I always played Civ5, and it was one of the first things I changed when Civ6 was released), but don't you think this works with the standard model as well? Sure it would be nice if other units could dynamically block the attack range just like terrain features (forests, hills..) do, but when this isn't possible, can't we just imagine that the troops between the MG and their target are taking cover or step aside a bit? :D

I get that this might not be to everyone's taste and to replace an existing model is a departure from what this mod has done so far. What I may well do is make the Machine Gun > Mortar a separate little mod and then people can enable or disable based on their preference.

Then there is the Maceman: While I really welcome this addition to fill the gap between the Swordsman and the Musketman, it somehow doesn't look like the technological advancement over the Swordsman to me, especially since he is using the same weapon as the ancient Warrior and also looks more like some tribal warrior right now. :/

A couple of things to bear in mind:

1) The Maceman has cultural variation - the screenshot is the South African variant which is why it looks more tribal. The Knight's helmet and Spearman's shield vary with each culture. I tried using the Knight's shield too but unfortunately the hand clips through the shield so it doesn't work.
2) The Warrior no longer uses the mace, only the stone axes.

I know that without the SDK your options to customize things like this are really limited, but what about using something like the Longswordsman from Civ5 instead?
What I have in mind is maybe the Cataphract's body and head with the Templar's sword! That would really look like some medieval savage, don't you think? :)

It is not possible to use a particular Armor model with an animation from a different model - so Cataphract's armor using Swordsman animations is impossible. If I use the Cataphract's armor it can only use Cataphract animations. This means that custom art is even more limited than you think. All that is possible is to take a vanilla model and swap the hat, weapons and shields for something else - and then maybe change the coloring in the handful of cases where the vanilla texture is recolourable. If we had the capabilities we eventually had in Civ 5 then it would be possible to re-rig a given model to a different animation set, but that is dependent on some graphic mod tools being released - even then it might not be possible. So it would be nice to use the Knight's armor for a foot unit but no can do right now! I get that the Macemen isn't that great but I'm pretty much scraping the barrel of what is possible right now.

Anyway I'm sorry if this post sounds like a lot of criticism, that wasn't my intention!

Don't worry I'm always happy to receive feedback - positive or negative!

Any news if this will be updated with the RED mod ? seeing giant warriors with small slingers is weird

I don't think is going to happen anytime soon I'm afraid. Gedemon is taking a break and as he points out here then way Civ 6 handles the art defines is painful to work with compared to Civ 5. Someone else may take up the project I suppose.

could you find a way to use the guns/people on the American Rough Rider for a american rifleman replacement(1900s US Marine) and or use the weapon they carry for the rifleman instead of the musket as I believe it fits in better. Thanks

Yes, this doable. Good idea. :)

I love your mod and i also use the No Quitters Mod Pack (its also very popular, just not on this site), which is only available over their google doc document. It probably is the best rebalancing mod out there and I would love it if you make a sub mod of this compatible with it.

I understand the desire for this, but it won't be me making the two mods compatible. If someone else wants to have a go it shouldn't be too hard. With regards to the upgrade paths the most significant difference is that NQ Mod has removed the Light Cavalry line completely, whereas Moar Units has expanded it slightly by adding the new Horseman with the Hooves and Holy War pack. I think someone could make a good mod from merging/reworking the two, but I don't fancy the job myself, sorry!

Thanks for adding Explorers. I guess they are a bit expensive though, takes a very long time for them to be produced. Well, at least they don't die so easily.

Yeah, I have to agree that the Explorer is expensive at 200 given that it has the same strength (35) as a Swordsman which costs 90. Something around the 120-150 range feels more appropriate.
 
What infantry models did you use for the sniper?

One is the Infantry and one is the Artillery Operator both with the Modern AT helmet instead of their regular helmets.
 
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