No, it was not.
Most Devastating Civil Wars
- Thread starter Wrymouth3
- Start date
Wrymouth3
Emperor
Not at all.
Certainly not.
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
I say the Spanish Civil War, not only because of its direct casualties and devastation but also because the mass migration it caused and the repressive policies instituted by France afterwards.
Serutan
Eatibus Anythingibus
The American Civil War was an odd duck in while it did cause real devastation in the South
(According to James McPherson, 74% of the assesed wealth there vanished between 1860
and 1870 since slaves were part of the figure), it had the opposite effect in the North.
And strictly in terms of casualties, it is far and away the most devastating war
the US has ever had.
(According to James McPherson, 74% of the assesed wealth there vanished between 1860
and 1870 since slaves were part of the figure), it had the opposite effect in the North.
And strictly in terms of casualties, it is far and away the most devastating war
the US has ever had.
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
So what was the "Holy Roman Empire" at that time?
Maybe you guys care to provide more info than just a few words as a reply?
===========================================
Regarding the Khmelnytsky Uprising - once again I talked with one Ukrainian guy, who called it a "liberation war" on another forum - which is wrong.
That was a civil war within the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland, not a "liberation war". If anything that was a class war, not any kind of war between ethnic groups, because there were many ethnic Poles among the Cossacks and many ethnic Rusyns among the local nobility. Wiśniowieccy family was a branch of Ruthenian Nieswiccy knyaz family, not "foreign Polish oppressors", as Ukrainian nationalists want to call them.
Another thing is that Wiśniowieccy were not so oppressive, contrary to what pro-Peasant and pro-Worker Soviet historiography claimed.
Muscovite boyars of that time were oppressing Russian peasants 10 times more than Polish nobility was oppressing Polish peasants.
Zaporozhian Cossacks - contrary to what modern Ukrainian nationalists like to claim - were not all Rusyns, but there were many ethnic groups among the Cossacks - Rusyns, Poles, Muscovites, Hungarians, Greeks, Germans, French people, Spaniards, Italians, Jews and Tatars.
Moreover - Polish king Władysław IV was a great friend of Cossacks, despite the fact that they were provoking conflicts with Turkey. Those were local magnates (many of whom were ethnic Rusyn) who were hostile towards Cossacks. And Bohdan Khmelnytsky started his rebellion because he wanted to take a personal revenge on a Polish noble Czaplinski who seduced his wife, rather than because he wanted to "liberate" anyone.
It should be noted that Ukrainian magnates indeed considered Zaporozhian Cossacks a problem - but they had good reasons to do so.
Zaporozhian Cossacks were pirates, who - apart from several rebellions - faithfully served their homeland (the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth). But apart from faithfully serving their homeland - they could not abstain from raiding and plundering lands of the neighbouring Crimean Khanate (vassal state of the Turkish Ottoman Empire) and Turkish coastal cities located along the Black Sea. Those plundering raids organized by Cossacks were destroying Polish-Turkish relations (which were friendly throughout the 1500s) and provoking both Tatar and Turkish invasions of Poland (in repulsing which Cossacks participated on the Polish side - but nevertheless, they were also provoking those invasions in the first place).
Most of Tatar and Turkish invasions of Poland were devastating Ukraine - region where Ukrainian magnates had their real estates.
This is why Ukrainian magnates disliked the Cossacks, who were causing Tatar raids, which were devastating lands of magnates.
Władysław IV was a friend of Cossacks, because he planned a major invasion of Turkey. But he died before his plans could be done. When King Władysław was seriously sick and already on his deathbed, the planned war against Turkey was called away and the Cossack registery (number of Cossacks serving in the Polish army in exchange for money and privileges) was reduced, which caused major dissatisfaction among them, because Cossacks - as warlike people (pirates) - were very enthusiastic about the prospect of war and war booty.
That reduction of Cossack registery and Cossack privileges, was among the reasons of the 1648 rebellion.
In 1648 Cossacks were very angry - but to start a rebellion, they needed an enthusiastic leader. And such leader was Bohdan Khmelnytsky, who escaped to Sich shortly before those events. For Khmelnytsky, however, the main reason of starting rebellion was - as I already wrote - his personal revenge on Czaplinski, who seduced his wife and nearly killed his son. Personal blood feud motivated him to become the leader of the rebels.
During the rebellion, many local peasants joined the Cossacks in their rebellion, to overcome magnates and their Jewish servants.
Maybe you guys care to provide more info than just a few words as a reply?
===========================================
Regarding the Khmelnytsky Uprising - once again I talked with one Ukrainian guy, who called it a "liberation war" on another forum - which is wrong.
That was a civil war within the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland, not a "liberation war". If anything that was a class war, not any kind of war between ethnic groups, because there were many ethnic Poles among the Cossacks and many ethnic Rusyns among the local nobility. Wiśniowieccy family was a branch of Ruthenian Nieswiccy knyaz family, not "foreign Polish oppressors", as Ukrainian nationalists want to call them.
Another thing is that Wiśniowieccy were not so oppressive, contrary to what pro-Peasant and pro-Worker Soviet historiography claimed.
Muscovite boyars of that time were oppressing Russian peasants 10 times more than Polish nobility was oppressing Polish peasants.
Zaporozhian Cossacks - contrary to what modern Ukrainian nationalists like to claim - were not all Rusyns, but there were many ethnic groups among the Cossacks - Rusyns, Poles, Muscovites, Hungarians, Greeks, Germans, French people, Spaniards, Italians, Jews and Tatars.
Moreover - Polish king Władysław IV was a great friend of Cossacks, despite the fact that they were provoking conflicts with Turkey. Those were local magnates (many of whom were ethnic Rusyn) who were hostile towards Cossacks. And Bohdan Khmelnytsky started his rebellion because he wanted to take a personal revenge on a Polish noble Czaplinski who seduced his wife, rather than because he wanted to "liberate" anyone.
It should be noted that Ukrainian magnates indeed considered Zaporozhian Cossacks a problem - but they had good reasons to do so.
Zaporozhian Cossacks were pirates, who - apart from several rebellions - faithfully served their homeland (the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth). But apart from faithfully serving their homeland - they could not abstain from raiding and plundering lands of the neighbouring Crimean Khanate (vassal state of the Turkish Ottoman Empire) and Turkish coastal cities located along the Black Sea. Those plundering raids organized by Cossacks were destroying Polish-Turkish relations (which were friendly throughout the 1500s) and provoking both Tatar and Turkish invasions of Poland (in repulsing which Cossacks participated on the Polish side - but nevertheless, they were also provoking those invasions in the first place).
Most of Tatar and Turkish invasions of Poland were devastating Ukraine - region where Ukrainian magnates had their real estates.
This is why Ukrainian magnates disliked the Cossacks, who were causing Tatar raids, which were devastating lands of magnates.
Władysław IV was a friend of Cossacks, because he planned a major invasion of Turkey. But he died before his plans could be done. When King Władysław was seriously sick and already on his deathbed, the planned war against Turkey was called away and the Cossack registery (number of Cossacks serving in the Polish army in exchange for money and privileges) was reduced, which caused major dissatisfaction among them, because Cossacks - as warlike people (pirates) - were very enthusiastic about the prospect of war and war booty.
That reduction of Cossack registery and Cossack privileges, was among the reasons of the 1648 rebellion.
In 1648 Cossacks were very angry - but to start a rebellion, they needed an enthusiastic leader. And such leader was Bohdan Khmelnytsky, who escaped to Sich shortly before those events. For Khmelnytsky, however, the main reason of starting rebellion was - as I already wrote - his personal revenge on Czaplinski, who seduced his wife and nearly killed his son. Personal blood feud motivated him to become the leader of the rebels.
During the rebellion, many local peasants joined the Cossacks in their rebellion, to overcome magnates and their Jewish servants.
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
One of the most devastating civil wars, were peasant rebellions against the Communists, which occured during the Russian civil war, and were caused mostly by Communist policies - such as forced collectivization or forced and predatory requisitions of food from peasants, which caused their families starving.
How much peasants "loved" Soviet Communists and their "pro-peasant" policies is shown by the number of peasant uprisings against Soviet Communists - the number and scale of those uprisings surpassed everything that ever happened in the countryside of Tsarist Russia. The largest of a series of peasant uprisings against the Soviet rules was the Tambov Uprising (Тамбовское восстание
, which was violently suppressed by Soviet military forces under Tukhachevsky until year 1921 - 240,000 Russian peasants - women, children and men - were murdered by the Soviets during those events.
240,000 is the number of people who were directly killed by Soviet bayonets and bullets during the Tambov Uprising.
Of those 240,000 over 200,000 were civilians - mostly women, children and old people. Only the rest were actual insurgents.
Many of them died in seven concentration camps, organized for peasant families who supported the Tambov partisans. Mortality rate in those concentration camps in the Autumn of 1921 was around 15% - 20% of all inmates monthly. So surviving a few months was rare.
Further thousands died of starvation as the result of Soviet predatory requisitions of food from peasants. Soviet requisitions of food from peasants were truly predatory - it is estimated that in the Tambov Region almost 96% of all grain produced by peasants was stolen by the Red Army. By comparison in the Middle Ages an average European peasant was giving only around 10% of what he produced to his feudal lord and to the Church.
As you can see the Soviet Communist regime was nearly 10 times worse for peasants than the Medieval Feudal regime.
Peasants - women, children and men - were escaping to local forests, because the Red Army soldiers were burning their villages.
However, Tukhachevsky ordered to burn forests (to hack peasants off them). When even the policy of burning forests did not wipe out the insurgents completely, on 12.06.1921 Tukhchavesky ordered to use combat gases against peasant partisans and their civilian families.
In September 1921 there were still around 1,000 peasant insurgents - "the Green Army" - alive (from the original number of 40,000).
Tukhachevsky - "the Vanquisher of Russian peasants" who used chemical weapons against women and children hiding in forests:
Keep loving "good Uncle Stalin" and his kind, my Russian friends - Communists were the worst enemies of your people in history, except of the Nazis.
How much peasants "loved" Soviet Communists and their "pro-peasant" policies is shown by the number of peasant uprisings against Soviet Communists - the number and scale of those uprisings surpassed everything that ever happened in the countryside of Tsarist Russia. The largest of a series of peasant uprisings against the Soviet rules was the Tambov Uprising (Тамбовское восстание
, which was violently suppressed by Soviet military forces under Tukhachevsky until year 1921 - 240,000 Russian peasants - women, children and men - were murdered by the Soviets during those events.240,000 is the number of people who were directly killed by Soviet bayonets and bullets during the Tambov Uprising.
Of those 240,000 over 200,000 were civilians - mostly women, children and old people. Only the rest were actual insurgents.
Many of them died in seven concentration camps, organized for peasant families who supported the Tambov partisans. Mortality rate in those concentration camps in the Autumn of 1921 was around 15% - 20% of all inmates monthly. So surviving a few months was rare.
Further thousands died of starvation as the result of Soviet predatory requisitions of food from peasants. Soviet requisitions of food from peasants were truly predatory - it is estimated that in the Tambov Region almost 96% of all grain produced by peasants was stolen by the Red Army. By comparison in the Middle Ages an average European peasant was giving only around 10% of what he produced to his feudal lord and to the Church.
As you can see the Soviet Communist regime was nearly 10 times worse for peasants than the Medieval Feudal regime.
Peasants - women, children and men - were escaping to local forests, because the Red Army soldiers were burning their villages.
However, Tukhachevsky ordered to burn forests (to hack peasants off them). When even the policy of burning forests did not wipe out the insurgents completely, on 12.06.1921 Tukhchavesky ordered to use combat gases against peasant partisans and their civilian families.
In September 1921 there were still around 1,000 peasant insurgents - "the Green Army" - alive (from the original number of 40,000).
Tukhachevsky - "the Vanquisher of Russian peasants" who used chemical weapons against women and children hiding in forests:
Keep loving "good Uncle Stalin" and his kind, my Russian friends - Communists were the worst enemies of your people in history, except of the Nazis.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
1946-49 ring a bell...?
TheLastOne36
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2007
- Messages
- 14,045
1946-49 ring a bell...?
There were countless civil wars in all the eras of the Greek civilization. There were even civil wars during the actual Greek war of Independence...
Perfection
The Great Head.
Yes, and I should think that most of the African civil wars over the past century should be considered among the nastiest wars in history. Consider the Biafra War, for example, which killed some three million people.
With dynastic politics like you had, who needs civil wars?
hobbsyoyo
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2012
- Messages
- 26,575
I can't underscore nastiest enough.
War is hell, for sure. Modern African wars seem to be hell's hellhole.
wolfigor
Emperor
The Rwandan civil war, which culminated with a huge genocide (up to 20% of population according to some estimations) seems to deserve a place in this list.
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