CommandoBob
AbstractArt
nerovats said:
Cannot reply now; will do so later. Will explain the why.
Nero04: Skipping some levels? It's training day
- Thread starter nerovats
- Start date
Cannot reply now; will do so later. Will explain the why.
Hawk Chieftain
Prince
I think that the trades that Commando did was OK. We got 2 slave workers which we needed to improve the land. Since we aren't going to build the Great Library, I think it's OK to get as much as we can for Alphabet.
I only saw 2 workers on that screenshot. Where is the other worker? We should use this 3rd worker to build a road up to our next city, Ivory City.
We should send our explore Warriors to the South around the Lake, and west from the Incense. Maybe we could get some maps from the Vikings or English in exchange for Alphabet plus some gold. I think we need to build up our economy a little. We only have 14 gold & 0gpt.
Here's what I think should happen in the next 10 moves:
Move the settler to the Yellow Dot, settle 3rd city. Start building another Warrior.
Finish building a Warrior at Barcelona, send him exploring up north.
Can we build Barracks at Barcelona? I think we could use this city to produce some good military units there. We need to be prepared for the Vikings to be aggressive.
Once the Warrior is built at Madrid, start on another settler. Move him north to Ivory City. Fortify that Warrior in Madrid.
We should trade Alphabet to either the Vikings or English, whoever has the best deal. We need to get Warrior Code, so we can build some archers.
Once we finish creating Writing, let's start on Map Making. Even though we probably won't get the Great Lighthouse, I think that the other civs will want Map Making so they can build it.
I only saw 2 workers on that screenshot. Where is the other worker? We should use this 3rd worker to build a road up to our next city, Ivory City.
We should send our explore Warriors to the South around the Lake, and west from the Incense. Maybe we could get some maps from the Vikings or English in exchange for Alphabet plus some gold. I think we need to build up our economy a little. We only have 14 gold & 0gpt.
Here's what I think should happen in the next 10 moves:
Move the settler to the Yellow Dot, settle 3rd city. Start building another Warrior.
Finish building a Warrior at Barcelona, send him exploring up north.
Can we build Barracks at Barcelona? I think we could use this city to produce some good military units there. We need to be prepared for the Vikings to be aggressive.
Once the Warrior is built at Madrid, start on another settler. Move him north to Ivory City. Fortify that Warrior in Madrid.
We should trade Alphabet to either the Vikings or English, whoever has the best deal. We need to get Warrior Code, so we can build some archers.
Once we finish creating Writing, let's start on Map Making. Even though we probably won't get the Great Lighthouse, I think that the other civs will want Map Making so they can build it.
BeefBayford
Going Steady
Got it, will play tonight.
Are we heading towards Republic slingshot? If so we need to keep hold of Writing at least until we get CoL, and hopefully by then we'll have met some more neighbours.
Are we heading towards Republic slingshot? If so we need to keep hold of Writing at least until we get CoL, and hopefully by then we'll have met some more neighbours.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I saw the questions at church. I am part of the tech crew and was checking the site before instrument rehearsal started. Just got home.nerovats said:
trade with first contact Well, why not?
The Vikings had something we did not. It could help us get something before others could and give us a monopoly on that tech. If you have guidelines that you follow on trading at first contact I would like to know them. Mine are 1) do they have something we want or need? and 2) is the price too high? What else should I be aware of when trading on first contact?
(When I read this, it sounds like a demand. It is not. It is a question.)
get pottery first Again, Pottery + Writing = Map Making, which would allow us to make galleys and explore the seas. It would also let us buy and sell maps between civs.
buy two workers I bought them to cripple England. In time, they will pay for themselves since they have no gpt upkeep fee. And together they will help us improve Spain. But the main thought was to get them out of England and into Spain.
were there two workers in London to buy Yes, which surprised me. One worker would be 'normal', two was unexpected.
not trade alphabet Alphabet leads to Writing, which we are learning. I wanted to keep the path to Map-Making closed to everyone else. I made the guess that we would try go get Map-Making quickly, since we could get a monopoly on it. If we did decide to do that, trading Alphabet to the Viking would allow them to research Writing and they could beat us to Map-Making. Plus, they may have been researching Alphabet already, and then could switch to Writing and learn it faster than we could.
I thought that to trade Alphabet to the Vikings could ruin our chances to get a monopoly on Map-Making, even though we had not decided to research Map-Making.
There is an article on what the AI will research next. I need to read that again.
why put slider at 30% if 10% will prevent riots too I was afraid that the next player would not pay attention to citizen happiness and have a city go into revolt if the slider was at 10%. In fact, I was afraid that if I had had seveal more turns to play, I would have had a city in revolt with the slider at 10%.
For myself, I have to make an effort to check to keep the citizens happy. While it should be part of what I do every turn, it is not. I feared that the next player would have my same weakness.
Last Thoughts on These Questions
I hope this explains why I decided what I did decide. And I hope that it is understood that I am exlplaining and not defending. My decisions may not have been the best ones. I may have lacked some understanding of how the world works at Emperor. But with what I did know I tried to make the best decisions that I could.
I am very interested in comments and feedback.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Could you explain this?BeefBayford said:
I have seen it talked about but it has never really defined in a way that made sense to me.
BeefBayford
Going Steady
CommandoBob said:
Basically you research Alpha>Writing>Code of Laws>Philo, then get Republic and switch Gov't to increase our economy etc.
Republic slingshot is only available in conquest (and civII). The first civ in the game to research philosophy gains a free tech (also those you haven't met yet. If you get code of Laws first then philosophy you can get republic free.
I meant to write why are there 2 workers to buy in London, most likely it's because they are at war with someone who has troops nearby. Most likely the vikings since they are the only 2 civ's we met.
Trading to first contact is not really right or wrong, but they might have met someone else and trade your tech to them before you meet them. If you wait a couple of turns you might get lucky and meet that other civ (like we did), and trade the tech to both of them in the same turn. From this we know for sure (almost) that england and vikings are at war since the vikings didn't trade CB to the English.
About trading alphabet. We're researching writing at min and only 10 turns away. Since the AI gets a production bonus they are likely to research faster, besides alpha is likely to be cheaper (not sure there) so if they are researching it they will finish fast. Besides we've only 10 left so will be ahead far enough for both writing and another tech.
Map making might be a good choice as it'll give us access to the sea, but ai's like that too, might go for something else to make sure we'll have a monopoly.
Buying workers is a way to cripple English, which are already under pressure. Might even help the Vikings to win easier. Even without that they were very expensive. It'll take very long to get back. Our workers will be free too, since we don't have a lot of units yet. So you trade over 100 gold for 10 shields and 20 food, actually half that since slaves work half speed. If the AI offers something it's not their bottom price. On average you can get 20% off, or gain 20% when asking.
Using civassist will help against riots, use the show alerts option. Always set slider on lowest level possible.
I would have taken WC to be able to build archers. AI's value offensive units higher when estimating our strength. When having an army of 10 archers, you're less likely to be declared upon then having 10 spears.
Edit: Don't mind the devil smiley apparently put it there by accident, get get rid of it.
I meant to write why are there 2 workers to buy in London, most likely it's because they are at war with someone who has troops nearby. Most likely the vikings since they are the only 2 civ's we met.
Trading to first contact is not really right or wrong, but they might have met someone else and trade your tech to them before you meet them. If you wait a couple of turns you might get lucky and meet that other civ (like we did), and trade the tech to both of them in the same turn. From this we know for sure (almost) that england and vikings are at war since the vikings didn't trade CB to the English.
About trading alphabet. We're researching writing at min and only 10 turns away. Since the AI gets a production bonus they are likely to research faster, besides alpha is likely to be cheaper (not sure there) so if they are researching it they will finish fast. Besides we've only 10 left so will be ahead far enough for both writing and another tech.
Map making might be a good choice as it'll give us access to the sea, but ai's like that too, might go for something else to make sure we'll have a monopoly.
Buying workers is a way to cripple English, which are already under pressure. Might even help the Vikings to win easier. Even without that they were very expensive. It'll take very long to get back. Our workers will be free too, since we don't have a lot of units yet. So you trade over 100 gold for 10 shields and 20 food, actually half that since slaves work half speed. If the AI offers something it's not their bottom price. On average you can get 20% off, or gain 20% when asking.
Using civassist will help against riots, use the show alerts option. Always set slider on lowest level possible.
I would have taken WC to be able to build archers. AI's value offensive units higher when estimating our strength. When having an army of 10 archers, you're less likely to be declared upon then having 10 spears.
Edit: Don't mind the devil smiley apparently put it there by accident, get get rid of it.
BeefBayford
Going Steady
Shall I go ahead and play my turns then nero? Any other tips before I continue?
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
nerovats said:
I did not think about WC giving Archers! I looked at what the Vikings had and how that could help us. I checked the tech tree and saw that we could get a monopoly on Map-Making. I was focused on second-tier techs and completely ignored starting techs. I guess I thought we could trade for those at a later time.Regarding CivAssist II, I will try it again in a game. In the past, it has not worked as I expected. So I use it for after-play analysis.
The slave prices were after haggling. That may not have been clear in the turn log.
Also, could you restate what conditions and limitations we are playing with? I had forgotten about not building the Great Library.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Commando Bob said:
Lurker's comment:Either CivAssist or MapStat will alert you one turn before a riot, and they will save you endless hours of checking many types of things by hand.
BeefBayford
Going Steady
Firstly I couldn't sell Alpha because Vik and Eng already had it 
Pre-Flight: Lux Set to 0% (9.1.0)
Turn 1 (2510BC):- Worker Irrigates near Barcelona. Settler moves onto hill and DISASTER! 2 barbs stand on the mountain! Move East warrior back to cover.
IBT: Barbs move up onto hill N of mountain.
Turn 2 (2470BC):- Settler + Workers moved out of harms way.
IBT: One barb fortifies on hill, the other moves onto Yellow spot.
Turn 3 (2430BC):- Madrid grows; Lux to 10%. Settler/Workers to safety.
IBT: Viking Warrior kills barb! Thanks Ragnar
Turn 4 (2390BC):- Western Warrior spots Viking borders.
IBT: Barca; Warrior->Warrior.
Turn 5 (2350BC):- Worker near Barca; Road. Fortify Warrior in Barca until Vik Warrior passes. Settler onto yellow spot.
IBT: Viking Warrior loses to the other Barb north of yellow spot. Madrid; Warrior->Settler.
Turn 6 (2310BC):- Warrior from Madrid goes N. Found Seville , begin Warrior.
IBT: Madrid grows; Lux to 20%.
Turn 7 (2270BC):- Warrior fortifies in Seville, Workers head towards Ivory.
IBT: Barb moves near Madrid.
Turn 8 (2230BC):- Move Warrior back towards Madrid to stop barb.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 9 (2190BC):- Workers irrigate nr. Madrid.
IBT: 2 warriors defend successfully against barbs (1 nr. Madrid, 1 nr. Viking borders).
Turn 10 (2150BC):- Writing Complete-> begin Warrior Code. Barca; Warrior->Settler.
And that's that! Writing can now be traded to Vik and Eng, do we want to do this right now or shall we wait a bit? I wasn't sure so I didn't trade it.
Here is our lands circa. 2150BC:
And here's the SAVE
Pre-Flight: Lux Set to 0% (9.1.0)
Turn 1 (2510BC):- Worker Irrigates near Barcelona. Settler moves onto hill and DISASTER! 2 barbs stand on the mountain! Move East warrior back to cover.
IBT: Barbs move up onto hill N of mountain.
Turn 2 (2470BC):- Settler + Workers moved out of harms way.
IBT: One barb fortifies on hill, the other moves onto Yellow spot.
Turn 3 (2430BC):- Madrid grows; Lux to 10%. Settler/Workers to safety.
IBT: Viking Warrior kills barb! Thanks Ragnar
Turn 4 (2390BC):- Western Warrior spots Viking borders.
IBT: Barca; Warrior->Warrior.
Turn 5 (2350BC):- Worker near Barca; Road. Fortify Warrior in Barca until Vik Warrior passes. Settler onto yellow spot.
IBT: Viking Warrior loses to the other Barb north of yellow spot. Madrid; Warrior->Settler.
Turn 6 (2310BC):- Warrior from Madrid goes N. Found Seville
, begin Warrior.IBT: Madrid grows; Lux to 20%.
Turn 7 (2270BC):- Warrior fortifies in Seville, Workers head towards Ivory.
IBT: Barb moves near Madrid.
Turn 8 (2230BC):- Move Warrior back towards Madrid to stop barb.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 9 (2190BC):- Workers irrigate nr. Madrid.
IBT: 2 warriors defend successfully against barbs (1 nr. Madrid, 1 nr. Viking borders).
Turn 10 (2150BC):- Writing Complete-> begin Warrior Code. Barca; Warrior->Settler.
And that's that! Writing can now be traded to Vik and Eng, do we want to do this right now or shall we wait a bit? I wasn't sure so I didn't trade it.
Here is our lands circa. 2150BC:
And here's the SAVE
BeefBayford
Going Steady
Oh and here's the Roster:
Azzaman333-on deck
CommandoBob-in the hole
BeefBayford
Hawk Chieftain-UP
Azzaman333-on deck
CommandoBob-in the hole
BeefBayford
Hawk Chieftain-UP
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Good turns, BeefBayford, especially with the Barbarian Suprise at Yellow Dot.
I need to get my turn logs as concise as yours. Detail is good if it is not overwhelming. And some of my logs overwhelm me.
Comments
On trading Writing I have no definite thoughts, since we are researching Warrior Code and not Map-Making.
@nerovats: Would it be OK for BeefBayford to reopen his game and find out what the Vikings and English might trade for Writing before we got into the next set of turns? Not to trade, but to explore our options.
I need to get my turn logs as concise as yours. Detail is good if it is not overwhelming. And some of my logs overwhelm me.
Comments
- If the settler in Madrid is going to claim the ivory, the grassland to the east of ivory is on the '1' ring of RCP 4.
- With Writing comes Embassies. Do we want to establish embassies with the Vikings and the English? And, can we afford it?
- (In other game I got Writing and forgot about embassies for several turns. I was just so glad to learn to Write!
)
- When the settler in Barcelona is built, I would like to consider a city site on the east side of Lake Barcelona. No site in mind, would just like to be closer to English and Vikings, for purposes of trade (connect with an existing road) and warfare (quicker travel time for our units, since I assume we would have a road to that city.)
- The workers NW of Madrid: Is the plan that they improve this tile and then begin roading to Ivory City? Without having the game with me, and remembering earlier discussions about city growth, my concern is that this tile will not be 'used' anytime soon. If the tile will not be used when the city grows, then perhaps it might have been better to move them NE of Madrid and only build roads to the Ivory City. If that tile will be used, then ignore my backseat driving.
- Once we found the Viking border why did we not map out that border? I did not see the Western Warrior mentioned in the turn log from Turn 4, where he saw the borders and Turn 9 where he defended against the barbarians in the coastal mountains.
On trading Writing I have no definite thoughts, since we are researching Warrior Code and not Map-Making.
@nerovats: Would it be OK for BeefBayford to reopen his game and find out what the Vikings and English might trade for Writing before we got into the next set of turns? Not to trade, but to explore our options.
Hawk Chieftain
Prince
I will play my turns tomorrow morning.
BeefBayford
Going Steady
It doesn't really matter, Hawk can always do that before he hits enter on his turn. I'd like to hear nero's views on the trading matter though.
About turn logs. BeefBayford was ok C-Bobs a bit long. I would like it if people gave short explanation on bigger decisions. BeefBayford didn´t need to make any, C-Bob did end noted is thoughts but a bit to much. This will also help the others, not just seeing what you did but also why.
Before we start settling more cities we should decide where to put them. There where some dotmaps made but we didn´t decide anything. Hope everyone took a look at my spoiler about that by now.
Trade writing, ofcourse. Question is when. There are some techs out there which we need, and should have had by now. We could have gotten them for alph which would have let us keep writing a bit longer, but now can´t risk not cashing in on it´s monopoly. AI´s have alpha for 11 turns now. I expect they can research it in 20 which leaves us 9 tops. What de we want for it?
When barca finishes it´s settler it´ll drop down to size 1, which is not a good idea. Seville is build a warrior, we´ve got plenty of them, we could do with some more workers and vet archers. So we need to get some techs and barracks.
We need to know where the english are. Since Vikings and English learned alpha at same time it´s very likely there´s another civ down there as, they must have traded it among them, and the English are at war with someone.
We don´t have the gold for embasies yet. Can get thm after next turnset I think.
Settling towards the ai is a good thought, we can fill in the north later. Do take into account the first cities should be productive ones, so complete the ring a bit more.
Before we start settling more cities we should decide where to put them. There where some dotmaps made but we didn´t decide anything. Hope everyone took a look at my spoiler about that by now.
Trade writing, ofcourse. Question is when. There are some techs out there which we need, and should have had by now. We could have gotten them for alph which would have let us keep writing a bit longer, but now can´t risk not cashing in on it´s monopoly. AI´s have alpha for 11 turns now. I expect they can research it in 20 which leaves us 9 tops. What de we want for it?
When barca finishes it´s settler it´ll drop down to size 1, which is not a good idea. Seville is build a warrior, we´ve got plenty of them, we could do with some more workers and vet archers. So we need to get some techs and barracks.
We need to know where the english are. Since Vikings and English learned alpha at same time it´s very likely there´s another civ down there as, they must have traded it among them, and the English are at war with someone.
We don´t have the gold for embasies yet. Can get thm after next turnset I think.
Settling towards the ai is a good thought, we can fill in the north later. Do take into account the first cities should be productive ones, so complete the ring a bit more.
Hawk Chieftain
Prince
Pre-flight: The English will give us The Wheel, Warrior Code & 90 gold for Writing. The Vikings will give us The Wheel, Warrior Code & 100 gold.
We'll take the Vikings deal!
The Barbs wiped out our Warrior who was exploring the East.
Another Barb moved to the mountain next to Seville.
Turn 1:Warrior near Barcelona goes N
Worker # 1 goes E (to start road to Ivory City)
Second English Worker goes S (to start road for city near Lake)
First English Worker roads on same spot
Warrior # 2 pops goody hut, out comes the Barbs!
Start researching Map Making (40 turns)
IBT: 2 Barbs are killed. Our citizens reward us with a Palace!
Turn 2: Warrior #2 kills last Barb
Worker # 1 starts irrigating
Second English Worker goes S
Warrior # 1 N
IBT: Madrid riots. Moved a citizen to a productive tile. Adjusted Luxury to 60%. We are still at +1gpt. I forgot to turn CivAssist on.
Turn 3: Second English Worker irrigates
Warrior # 1 N
Warrior # 2 S
IBT: Madrid is restored.
Turn 4: Warrior # 1 NE
Warrior # 2 S
IBT: More Barbs move closer.
Turn 5: Warrior # 2 S
Warrior # 1 E
IBT: English are willing to trade Iron Working for 150 gold. Same with the Vikings. Maybe if they would lower their price... Warrior # 2 kills Barb
Turn 6: Seville- Warrior/Barracks (40 turns)
Warrior # 3 W
Warrior # 2 S
Worker # 1 roads
Worker # 2 E
Warrior # 1 E
IBT: Vikings establish embassy in Madrid.
Turn 7: Madrid- Settler/Granary (I think we need to build up Madrid with food.)
First English Worker NW
Settler S
Worker # 2 irrigates
Warrior # 3 W to escort Settler
Warrior # 2 SW
Warrior # 1 S
IBT: Vikings are willing to trade Iron Working for 140 gold. I don't want to make a hasty decision, so I'll wait to see what the group thinks.
Turn 8: Warrior # 2 SW
Settler S
First English Worker irrigates
Warrior # 1 S
Warrior # 3 SW
IBT: Barbs near Barcelona move away
Turn 9: Settler SW
Warrior # 3 S
Worker # 1 N
Warrior # 1 S
Warrior # 2 SW
IBT: Lower luxury to 40%. We are at +8 gpt.
Turn 10: Barcelona- Settler/Barracks (20 turns)
Settler # 2 E
Settler # 1 S to final spot
Warrior # 3 fortified
Warrior # 1 S
Worker # 1 irrigates
Warrior # 3 SW
End of turnset- 1750BC 190 Gold +8gpt Learning Map Making for 31 turns.
I think we should send Settler to east of Ivory, continue build Granary & Barracks. Then get some archers. Also need to trade for Iron Working.
We'll take the Vikings deal!
The Barbs wiped out our Warrior who was exploring the East.
Another Barb moved to the mountain next to Seville.
Turn 1:Warrior near Barcelona goes N
Worker # 1 goes E (to start road to Ivory City)
Second English Worker goes S (to start road for city near Lake)
First English Worker roads on same spot
Warrior # 2 pops goody hut, out comes the Barbs!
Start researching Map Making (40 turns)
IBT: 2 Barbs are killed. Our citizens reward us with a Palace!
Turn 2: Warrior #2 kills last Barb
Worker # 1 starts irrigating
Second English Worker goes S
Warrior # 1 N
IBT: Madrid riots. Moved a citizen to a productive tile. Adjusted Luxury to 60%. We are still at +1gpt. I forgot to turn CivAssist on.
Turn 3: Second English Worker irrigates
Warrior # 1 N
Warrior # 2 S
IBT: Madrid is restored.
Turn 4: Warrior # 1 NE
Warrior # 2 S
IBT: More Barbs move closer.
Turn 5: Warrior # 2 S
Warrior # 1 E
IBT: English are willing to trade Iron Working for 150 gold. Same with the Vikings. Maybe if they would lower their price... Warrior # 2 kills Barb
Turn 6: Seville- Warrior/Barracks (40 turns)
Warrior # 3 W
Warrior # 2 S
Worker # 1 roads
Worker # 2 E
Warrior # 1 E
IBT: Vikings establish embassy in Madrid.
Turn 7: Madrid- Settler/Granary (I think we need to build up Madrid with food.)
First English Worker NW
Settler S
Worker # 2 irrigates
Warrior # 3 W to escort Settler
Warrior # 2 SW
Warrior # 1 S
IBT: Vikings are willing to trade Iron Working for 140 gold. I don't want to make a hasty decision, so I'll wait to see what the group thinks.
Turn 8: Warrior # 2 SW
Settler S
First English Worker irrigates
Warrior # 1 S
Warrior # 3 SW
IBT: Barbs near Barcelona move away
Turn 9: Settler SW
Warrior # 3 S
Worker # 1 N
Warrior # 1 S
Warrior # 2 SW
IBT: Lower luxury to 40%. We are at +8 gpt.
Turn 10: Barcelona- Settler/Barracks (20 turns)
Settler # 2 E
Settler # 1 S to final spot
Warrior # 3 fortified
Warrior # 1 S
Worker # 1 irrigates
Warrior # 3 SW
End of turnset- 1750BC 190 Gold +8gpt Learning Map Making for 31 turns.
I think we should send Settler to east of Ivory, continue build Granary & Barracks. Then get some archers. Also need to trade for Iron Working.
Hawk Chieftain
Prince
Here is a couple screenshots:
BeefBayford
Going Steady
You still should have got the 90gold from the English for Writing, its better than letting the Vikings trade it to them and letting them reap the benefits.
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