NES World/Regional Maps III

[Symphony D.]

Question: What is the standard of a river making it in to the map (other than size)?

Placement aid? (every single European capital except one is on a river, and so on)

Historical Importance? (If so, then the Po should be in, as well as)

Average water flow. It was generated by a geological program, so the biggest rivers get in.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

*Whistles*

Alright now comrades, I just finished up the Europe (With the Exception of all of Russia) portion of the map and I would like honest opinions.

Also, I could really use a map of the entire world at the time (1700 for late comers) and if you could send me one it would be deeply appreciated.

 

[MjM]

Very nicely drawn, BTM. It's a different style. I like it.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

Very nicely drawn, BTM. It's a different style. I like it.

Thanks. I especially like my Vassal Borders, it turned out alot better then I though it would. The Gray German States are mostly just thrown up random borders, but thats what they were like anyways

Im hoping that as soon as the map is completly done I can start the NES.

 

[Cuivienen]

You want it frank? The outlines are inherently ugly and do not seem to correspond to any particular standard other than recentism. Norway, Finland and Ireland, for example (though there are many other, smaller examples of such) were firmly, 100% integral parts of the Kingdom of Denmark-Norway, the Kingdom of Sweden and the United Kingdom of England, Scotland and Ireland, respectively, and should not be separate colors. To give them separate colors is to lend far too much credence to the fact that they are independent today; they were not vassals, they were part of the nations.

If the outlines are to be used, it should be for vassal states only, which would leave the Ottoman states outlined and combine all of the rest of the outlined states into single entities. This seems somewhat unfortunate, given that, for example, the Netherlands and the UK would part ways only a few years later, but perhaps those two could be separate colors with the same ruler (given that it was well-known that they would cease to be united once William III died). The same is true of Saxony and Poland-Lithuania.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

You want it frank? The outlines are inherently ugly and do not seem to correspond to any particular standard other than recentism. Norway, Sweden and Ireland were firmly, 100% integral parts of the Kingdom of Denmark-Norway, the Kingdom of Sweden and the United Kingdom of England, Scotland and Ireland, respectively, and should not be separate colors. To give them separate colors is to lend far too much credence to the fact that they are independent today; they were not vassals, they were part of the nations.

If the outlines are to be used, it should be for vassal states only, which would leave the Ottoman states outlined and combine all of the rest of the outlined states into single entities. This seems somewhat unfortunate, given that, for example, the Netherlands and the UK would part ways only a few years later, but perhaps those two could be separate colors with the same ruler (given that it was well-known that they would cease to be united once William III died). The same is true of Saxony and Poland-Lithuania.

Thats rather blunt. Thank you for your honest opinion.

I always saw that Ireland was more seperate from the rest of Britian, whil it is still ruled by the same people, the player can play as the governers of said country and if they feel like it, they can try and overthrown the rulers and proclaim their own kingdom. I know the time of the joint Britian-Netherlands rule was short but if the leaders of Britain want to get rid of Netherland rule faster then they can.

I suppose that Norway and Denmark could be combined.

I have no intrests in changing the borders of the Ottoman Empire. I like them the way they are (And I spent so much time on it)

I'll also keep Poland and Saxony the way they are. I'll combine Norway and Denmark:

 

[Symphony D.]

Sweet. I wonder if the borders should be thickened like the old map. Maybe we could adopt a new map-drawing standard, but I don't think we'd overcome the inertia.

Probably not. I wouldn't really care what it was either, personally. My main motivation in that conversion was getting rid of that horrid old relic of a map more than anything else. I'll sacrifice a little independence for progress now and then.

I thought so, too, for a long time. But I've been working with a LOT of maps from either style over the last few months, as my cryptic avatars demonstrate, and ultimately, thick borders are more pleasing, or so I've seen.

That's why I enjoy glow.

On that note, these aren't usable without a little trickery (copy/paste to a new .png), but are demonstrative of some thoughts. Working on minimizing file size at the moment.

<snip>
I still like black but the white is unique in its own sort of way.

 

[TerrisH]

Ow... Very nice Maps my master, but the white one hurts my eyes. it seems to produce a glare for some reason..

Really link the black one though.

 

[knigh+]

lovely maps...

feedback for my part of the world:
Lake Van appears to be 3 pixels, while its size is close to Lake Urumiye nearby (which is on the map). I guess Symph was deleting it because it is not big enough, but missed a corner.

@BTM,
Ottoman-Safavid border doesn't seem right, it should be same as today's borders.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

lovely maps...

feedback for my part of the world:
Lake Van appears to be 3 pixels, while its size is close to Lake Urumiye nearby (which is on the map). I guess Symph was deleting it because it is not big enough, but missed a corner.

@BTM,
Ottoman-Safavid border doesn't seem right, it should be same as today's borders.

How does it look now?

 

[knigh+]

How does it look now?

Almost...

The border shouldn't be on the rivers until the gulf, both rivers being fully in Ottoman Empire.

Just look at today's Iran-Iraq and Iran-Turkey borders. Or the Europe map you posted earlier as the basis of your map.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

I think I got it. I'm gonna try and begin work on the America's, tell me how it looks so far:

 

[knigh+]

You are doing great

For OE cities, you could consider having Salonica, Izmir/Smryna, Damascus, Sofia rather than Tirane, Odessa, Edirne, Antalya. Salonica and Izmir were the second and third largest cities of the empire. If you don't have to have that number of cities precisely, I would say add Aleppo, Konya and Trabzon as well.

edit: Belgrade as well.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

You are doing great

For OE cities, you could consider having Salonica, Izmir/Smryna, Damascus, Sofia rather than Tirane, Odessa, Edirne, Antalya. Salonica and Izmir were the second and third largest cities of the empire. If you don't have to have that number of cities precisely, I would say add Aleppo, Konya and Trabzon as well.

I've had trouble with city placement, the map I've used doesn't have cities on it and I've relied on GoogleMap for the Capitals and such.

The real pain is gonna be Asia.

 

[Luckymoose]

I do not like the city style you made. But other then that. The two color borders makes me sick. Thanks.

 

[Reno]

@Behind the Mask: Why are Finland, Ingria, Estonia and Livonia separate (with different colors and all) from Sweden? That's just outright wrong if you want to potray Northern-Europe accurately around the year 1700. All of the forementioned areas were directly part of Sweden with no vassalage, independence or autonomy at all at the time.

 

[das]

Indeed; if anything, it is Courland that you want to be a vassal - a Polish one, at that. Likewise, Sardinia, Naples and Sicily - and Milan, which you forgot outright - should be under direct Spanish control. To have them otherwise raises the question of why isn't, say, Scotland awarded a similar status.

The eco. centres look somewhat confusing as well.

The Gray German States are mostly just thrown up random borders, but thats what they were like anyways

You have made at least one powerful enemy with this statement. The precise political makeup of western and central Germany is much more important than it may seem. The northwestern and central regions should be more balkanised, and Brandenburg and Austria should have numerous enclaves in the west. As should Bavaria. And the Rhenish Palatinate should definitely not be Spanish.

Still, a nice try. Needs much more work, though you already know that.

 

[knigh+]

I've had trouble with city placement, the map I've used doesn't have cities on it and I've relied on GoogleMap for the Capitals and such.

The real pain is gonna be Asia.

Google doesn't really make an effort to distinguish cities by size. I suggest using a good old paper Atlas, there large cities would be much clearer with different icons. And you can rely on people's input for parts of your map (as my post above).

Of course Atlas is still a very poor solution, as relative city sizes between then and now can be very different, especially in the New World. But in the old world, you'll get more than half correctly (Still, there will be some cities like Ankara, which had no importance back then).

 

[Dachs]

You have made at least one powerful enemy with this statement.

WHERE DO YOU LIVE BTM?????

Also, I may be wrong, but IIRC the Banat should be under Austrian control, as is northern Serbia. (Passarowitz is still in effective IIRC...until the War for the Polish Throne.)

 

[das]

Actually I think Passarowitz was in 1718, so that border is correct (except for the fact that Banat was much smaller than that).