New Beta Version - August 16th (8/16)

[Murderologist]

I can confirm the air units are still disappearing. All on the same turn I made all the moves and before I hit next. I bought one bomber and then declared war on indonesia. It thought for just a second after I hit declare. Upon exiting the leader head the air unit I had just purchased is gone before I could hit the next button. I said this on the git hub. This bug happens later on in the games when the map is much more populated and a major moves involving the player occurs Expending a great person to unlock a tech or policy, declaring war, peace with multiple city states involved, etc... Anything where the game has to process a major move for the PLAYER is resulting in the air units disappearing.

The city also recognizes that I have just bought something. Even though the units disappear in the same turn I cannot purchase another one right away when the bomber disappears. It knows I just made a purchase but the unit is gone.

 

[JLazeZ]

Has anyone else been having problems with Citizen Management?

When it's on Default Focus the AI works questionable or bad tiles with better options left un-worked. Also occasionally the other focuses don't work at all. The mods I'm using are the 8-23 hotfix VP, Promotion Flags, and Quick Turns.

 

[General_Drax]

About working bad tiles i noticed as well. Not always but sometimes. You need to babysitting a bit more and changing focus do not switch them nor specialists.

On my King game that matter less, I'm enslaving the whole world but on Emperor and up that tile can be the keystone to get a wonder or not.

Beside i'm still observing that Morocco is almost unstoppable producing wonder after wonder (Taj mahal into Uffizi in 2 turns), 474 gp/turn in early industrial (Progress/Statecraft) and bribing all other AI into war every ten turns. Maybe it's 3/4 UC, really don't know how but he is outperforming everyone even Maya and Indonesia with 1 and 2 cities more.

At least I can sell him in peace time 6 Iron for 67 g/turn.

A good contribute to finance all the defense units I need to produce/keep due to defensive wars he keeps bribing.

 

[Stalker0]

Has anyone else been having problems with Citizen Management?

When it's on Default Focus the AI works questionable or bad tiles with better options left un-worked. Also occasionally the other focuses don't work at all. The mods I'm using are the 8-23 hotfix VP, Promotion Flags, and Quick Turns.

Yep its been this way for a few versions now, I think its on the backburner of the fix list.

 

[a3kov]

I started a new game with 8-23 hotfix. There are still many mindless wars. Civs declare on enemies far away with little or no ability to send units. Some of these wars are joint wars, others seem to be bribed.
I think it's a major issue - I suspect fake wars may discourage AIs from starting real wars as they always consider existing wars they are in before starting a new one. Just to give an example of how bad it is: in my game (medieval currently) both India and France are in 7 wars of which only 1 opponent is close and is able to attack. Looks like the gang-up logics takes over the lower willingness to start distant wars.

There are definitely some improvements wrt AI expansion (though some AIs are still stuck with too few cities). Also Authority is not as popular as before - now it seems more or less balanced.

 

[Sgtslick]

Have had a few attempts at immortal. I usually do fine up until industrial era. The thing I'm wondering is, has warmongering attitude penalties with AI always been this severe?
A couple of games I was trying to play a peaceful game as Ghandi (never declare war and always give in to demands). The AI would eventually always declare war on me and from there I could never recover a positive attitude with people. It feels very harsh when someone declares war on you - you win the war or are winning - and so you get punished for it and seen as a warmonger.
Is warmongering just a way to balance difficulty?
Can someone give me advice on how to handle warmongering in vox populi? Does it get reset once you vassalize war opponent?
In my current game as ottomans, the whole world is constantly at war. I declared war against korea just after i got jannisaries and waited for their defensive pact to end with their ally. I also didn't backstab (i denounced and declared war on his turn because he demanded i move troops or whatever), and now that I just conquered his capital and I have like -540 attitude from neighbor who previously loved me (transparent diplomacy).

 

[vyyt]

I have a game going where the AI doesn't have roads connecting any of its cities to the capital on turn 185 on standard speed. There is a road between cities 2 and 3 and a few tiles roaded here and there. Looks like it's building some now, but that's ridiculously late.
The AI in question is doing just fine, 3rd place in score.
Events disabled.
what could be the reason?
Capital is landlocked.

Are they Iroquois? I think forests count as roads for them.

 

[vyyt]

@Sgtslick , you get warmongering when you take cities. The civs who are your friends and who hate your enemy tend to overlook your warmongering. If you mouse over a city you are about to conquer, you will see a tooltip telling you how much each civ gets disappointed if you take the city.

Liberating cities (and city states!) decreases your warmongering penalty. Vassals don't (why would they?).

 

[Tarzan737]

It is intended to, yes, provided vassalage is enabled and you're in the Medieval Era.

hmm i pretty sure i was, i had cannons and caroleans (sweden) but im still not sure..

i will try in later eras..

 

[tothePAIN]

Let me offer some praise for the AI this patch - the AI is successfully conquering cities at a higher rate.

Also, the promotion AI is working better. England has easier access to logistics on the Frigate line because of Indomitable on Ships of the Line and I actually saw England getting Logistics (which is scary.) Also, England's corvette's have Vanguard. This is seriously impressive. The AI with level 4 promotions is one of the things that we've been talking about as making the AI as good as humans.

Edit:

I just realized - and am about to play an England game to check - the indomitable promotion on Ship of the Line may effectively be giving Ship of the Line Logistics again...

 

[Zanteogo]

@Sgtslick , you get warmongering when you take cities. The civs who are your friends and who hate your enemy tend to overlook your warmongering. If you mouse over a city you are about to conquer, you will see a tooltip telling you how much each civ gets disappointed if you take the city.

Liberating cities (and city states!) decreases your warmongering penalty. Vassals don't (why would they?).

Yup. The only way to totally avoid warmongering is to never declare war and never take a not liberated city. Once you pass Medieval era you get so much warmongering that it pretty much sticks with you the rest of the game.

The best way to play a "nice guy" game is to keep a massive standing army. Seems somewhat counter intuitive but the AI does take into account your military score when making wars. You will still get the rare "suicide war". (you can tell by the war message, something like "I may lose, but better to die in battle" or something like that)

You can always turn off the late game "hate the winning civ" in the diplomatic files as well. To be honest it makes for more interesting games, but does make the games easier for the player.

 

[InkAxis]

The best way to play a "nice guy" game is to keep a massive standing army. Seems somewhat counter intuitive but the AI does take into account your military score when making wars.

This seems pretty intuitive and it makes sense historically as if you want to be peaceful then you needed to keep a strong army. If you wanted to be neutral you would need to keep an army to deter attackers.

 

[Stalker0]

Finally got to try out this version (with hotfix). On Emperor

My first impression, Stonehenge built by AI on Turn 26 (that's my personal cutoff for the wonder without Egypt or America)....so good showing from the AI on that.

My two neighbors just built their first city, both right around Turn 54. I have just settled my 3rd city...and I had a SLOOOOOW start (see below). There is almost no hammers here near my capital until I finally got a fishing boat on my coral, so the AI had plenty of chance to beat me to the punch.

Korea has built 2 wonders so I can cut them some slack, but Persia hasn't done much.

Spoiler :

View attachment 567209

UPDATE: Turn 74, both civs have built a 3rd city, to catch up with me. I'm about to do a new surge of 2 cities so we will see if they continue to catch up. Persia also did get a wonder, so it looks like he did spend some effort on that over expansion.

So hehe I thought I was on Emperor, but Really Advanced Start had actually shifted me to Immortal by mistake! Difficulty felt like Emperor level to me overall so I didn't notice for a while.

 

[Murderologist]

Just an observation I could be wrong but do most people not play until the era of planes?As far as I know this issue is only still happening to a few people. If your playing entire games and nothing is happening to you please share your game settings because I’m pretty sure this issue is now specific to the size of the map and number of civs as this occurs during moments the game has to process many things like, canceling all trade routes, any deals, take into account 5 defensive pacts prepare or awake hundreds of units deal with vassals, city state alliance all when declaring war. In this situation air units would disappear. This is a problem but if it’s not happening to most of you or you aren’t reporting it please let me know your game settings or if you even play till the modern era as it will help me find the issue.

 

[tothePAIN]

Just an observation I could be wrong but do most people not play until the era of planes?As far as I know this issue is only still happening to a few people. If your playing entire games and nothing is happening to you please share your game settings because I’m pretty sure this issue is now specific to the size of the map and number of civs as this occurs during moments the game has to process many things like, canceling all trade routes, any deals, take into account 5 defensive pacts prepare or awake hundreds of units deal with vassals, city state alliance all when declaring war. In this situation air units would disappear. This is a problem but if it’s not happening to most of you or you aren’t reporting it please let me know your game settings or if you even play till the modern era as it will help me find the issue.

I play until the end game but planes are only a factor in my game less than 50% of the time. Sorry I can't be of help.

 

[Recursive]

Has anyone else been having problems with Citizen Management?

When it's on Default Focus the AI works questionable or bad tiles with better options left un-worked. Also occasionally the other focuses don't work at all. The mods I'm using are the 8-23 hotfix VP, Promotion Flags, and Quick Turns.

Yep its been this way for a few versions now, I think its on the backburner of the fix list.

Please report these on Github. Gazebo has repeatedly tried to fix them, but has been unsuccessful so far. 'Tis an elusive hydra of a bug...

I started a new game with 8-23 hotfix. There are still many mindless wars. Civs declare on enemies far away with little or no ability to send units. Some of these wars are joint wars, others seem to be bribed.
I think it's a major issue - I suspect fake wars may discourage AIs from starting real wars as they always consider existing wars they are in before starting a new one. Just to give an example of how bad it is: in my game (medieval currently) both India and France are in 7 wars of which only 1 opponent is close and is able to attack. Looks like the gang-up logics takes over the lower willingness to start distant wars.

There are definitely some improvements wrt AI expansion (though some AIs are still stuck with too few cities). Also Authority is not as popular as before - now it seems more or less balanced.

Am working on AI friendships, strategic alliances, DPs and war selection as my next big fix.

Have had a few attempts at immortal. I usually do fine up until industrial era. The thing I'm wondering is, has warmongering attitude penalties with AI always been this severe?
A couple of games I was trying to play a peaceful game as Ghandi (never declare war and always give in to demands). The AI would eventually always declare war on me and from there I could never recover a positive attitude with people. It feels very harsh when someone declares war on you - you win the war or are winning - and so you get punished for it and seen as a warmonger.
Is warmongering just a way to balance difficulty?
Can someone give me advice on how to handle warmongering in vox populi? Does it get reset once you vassalize war opponent?
In my current game as ottomans, the whole world is constantly at war. I declared war against korea just after i got jannisaries and waited for their defensive pact to end with their ally. I also didn't backstab (i denounced and declared war on his turn because he demanded i move troops or whatever), and now that I just conquered his capital and I have like -540 attitude from neighbor who previously loved me (transparent diplomacy).

Warmongering is intended to punish war success, but it might be too high. Hmm...

hmm i pretty sure i was, i had cannons and caroleans (sweden) but im still not sure..

i will try in later eras..

Could be a bug. Report on Github.

Let me offer some praise for the AI this patch - the AI is successfully conquering cities at a higher rate.

Also, the promotion AI is working better. England has easier access to logistics on the Frigate line because of Indomitable on Ships of the Line and I actually saw England getting Logistics (which is scary.) Also, England's corvette's have Vanguard. This is seriously impressive. The AI with level 4 promotions is one of the things that we've been talking about as making the AI as good as humans.

Edit:

I just realized - and am about to play an England game to check - the indomitable promotion on Ship of the Line may effectively be giving Ship of the Line Logistics again...

I'm glad the AI is performing better, particularly in the promotions department. Credit to MilesLewis on Github for the better promotion AI.

 

[Gazebo]

Alright so I think I've actually found the airplane bug this time. Air units were being tasked with jumping to a nearby valid plot, but the 'jump' was being denied because they were out of moves, so they were being deleted. I've fixed the issue...hopefully. Running a few more tests to see if I can create any edge-case deletions.

 

[Murderologist]

Alright so I think I've actually found the airplane bug this time. Air units were being tasked with jumping to a nearby valid plot, but the 'jump' was being denied because they were out of moves, so they were being deleted. I've fixed the issue...hopefully. Running a few more tests to see if I can create any edge-case deletions.

tell me where to send your case of beer sir

 

[Stalker0]

tell me where to send your case of beer sir

Well definitely not to the pilots of those planes, else they might go missing again!

 

[Amask]

Are they Iroquois? I think forests count as roads for them.

Ethiopia.

Revealed all with IGE.
Nothing about this makes any sense.
Why is there a road from Lalibela to London?
Why are there roads going SW from Kiev and Florence, both leading nowhere?
Exactly one tile around the capital is roaded, and that road doesn't lead anywhere.
The AI is clearly well developed, and I can see six workers in this screenshot.

Spoiler :