New Buildings Discussion

@Faustmouse

I need you to add Education requirements too all your buildings that are related to research. That means basically everything that has the word "Lab" in its name.

The requirements should be equal to their cost. So for example the Protein Lab cost 1150 so it would require a minimum of 1150 Education.

Thanks! And let me know if you have any questions. You your best judgement.
 
Hydro can you give me some buildings to code?
 
Hydromancerx said:
@Faustmouse

I need you to add Education requirements too all your buildings that are related to research. That means basically everything that has the word "Lab" in its name.

The requirements should be equal to their cost. So for example the Protein Lab cost 1150 so it would require a minimum of 1150 Education.

Thanks! And let me know if you have any questions. You your best judgement.
Click to expand...

You haven't added it to your buildings yet, right? Because I haven't found it there. After I saw it on one of your buildings I can copy it for sure.
But should it be modular then? The code required in the new "Education" Folder would be:

Code: 
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_LAB</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_LAB</Type>
                        <PrereqProperty>PROPERTY_EDUCATION</PrereqProperty>
                                <iAmount>1000</iAmount>
		</BuildingInfo>

Just with the correct code for the Education Requirement :mischief:
But this would be enough to make the property requirement modular and if you add here the "Produce 10 Education Property per turn" code as well even that could be made modular.

I'm not sure because of balance issues and if it is possible to "override" something

(For example +5 :science: in the core and -5 :science: in the modular folder)
 
MrAzure said:
Hydro can you give me some buildings to code?
Click to expand...

Code: 
			<PropertyManipulators>
			  <PropertySource>
			    <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
			    <PropertyType>PROPERTY_EDUCATION</PropertyType>
			    <iAmountPerTurn>5</iAmountPerTurn>
			  </PropertySource>
			</PropertyManipulators>
This code gives +5 Education per turn to a building. In the Building Infos file.

Code: 
	<PropertyInfos>
		<PropertyInfo>
			<Type>PROPERTY_EDUCATION</Type>
		      	  <PropertyBuildings>
			 	<PropertyBuilding>
			     		<BuildingType>BUILDING_ANTHROPOLOGY_LAB</BuildingType>
			     		<iMinValue>300</iMinValue>
			     		<iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>
 			  	</PropertyBuilding>
 			</PropertyBuildings>
		</PropertyInfo>
	</PropertyInfos>

This enables the Anthropology Lab to be unlocked at 300 Education or more. This goes in the Property Infos file.
 
Faustmouse said:
You haven't added it to your buildings yet, right? Because I haven't found it there. After I saw it on one of your buildings I can copy it for sure.
But should it be modular then? The code required in the new "Education" Folder would be:

Code: 
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_LAB</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_LAB</Type>
                        <PrereqProperty>PROPERTY_EDUCATION</PrereqProperty>
                                <iAmount>1000</iAmount>
		</BuildingInfo>

Just with the correct code for the Education Requirement :mischief:
But this would be enough to make the property requirement modular and if you add here the "Produce 10 Education Property per turn" code as well even that could be made modular.

I'm not sure because of balance issues and if it is possible to "override" something

(For example +5 :science: in the core and -5 :science: in the modular folder)
Click to expand...

1. Yes I added them to the SVN.

2. See my code above. You need the max an min values. Note the max is just really high so you cannot reach it

3. I am not sure. Such a think I think would have to all be in one file or something. However the fact that I was removing research from educational buildings means this would not be good to be modular.

In short while the effects should be modular other things like the property existing, building tweaks to compensate for the new property and other factors just make this nearly impossible to be modular. Its just too woven into things.
 
I'm not a friend of making Properties modular because I think this would be impossible to balance, but I can see why people don't want them.

IMHO Luxury and Entertainment are not necessary at all and I would prefer to play without them, but I will give it a chance and have a look to see how they work ingame.
 
Faustmouse said:
.

IMHO Luxury and Entertainment are not necessary at all and I would prefer to play without them, but I will give it a chance and have a look to see how they work ingame.
Click to expand...

I am actually going to disable them until we have a long discussion, the reason is I didn't include the Mod Team in this decision, and it seems unfair to include something game changing without a say.

Education and Tourism are a natural fit, but this too are kind of too goofy for some.

EDIT: Entertainment and Luxury are disabled until we have a discussion about them, for now lets focus on Education and Tourism.
 
I hope that's not because of what I said :blush:

Education and Toursim sounds great (especially Tourism!). I think you get the idea of properties from Sim City or Anno or something? Be careful with this, just because something works in another game doesn't mean it makes so much sense in Civ.
 
Faustmouse said:
I hope that's not because of what I said :blush:
Click to expand...
I got some PMs from lurkers here, one said it would be wise to "review and maybe revise" with Mod Team on Entertainment/Luxury and explain exactly what they do, because Entertainment sounds like culture, and Luxury sounds gimmicky.The second said to rename Entertainment to Leisure so it can affect Sports too, and Luxury to unlock "luxury resources" and linked me to a Ls612 thread, and see if that can be part of Luxury. The third saying to focus on Education and Tourism first, let people get comfortable and have buildings modded with them then add the other two after a discussion.

The thread linked:
Auto-Build, Luxury Resources, and Quality of Life
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=491816

Faustmouse said:
I hope that's not because of what I said :blush:

Education and Toursim sounds great (especially Tourism!). I think you get the idea of properties from Sim City or Anno or something? Be careful with this, just because something works in another game doesn't mean it makes so much sense in Civ.
Click to expand...

The idea came from playing Sins Rebellion, Distant Worlds, Space Empires V mods but expanded it.
 
MrAzure said:
I am actually going to disable them until we have a long discussion, the reason is I didn't include the Mod Team in this decision, and it seems unfair to include something game changing without a say.

Education and Tourism are a natural fit, but this too are kind of too goofy for some.

EDIT: Entertainment and Luxury are disabled until we have a discussion about them, for now lets focus on Education and Tourism.
Click to expand...

I actually really like Luxury and see how it can work. After Education and Tourism are more developed I would at least like to try to get Luxury working since I have some ideas for it.

Faustmouse said:
I hope that's not because of what I said :blush:

Education and Toursim sounds great (especially Tourism!). I think you get the idea of properties from Sim City or Anno or something? Be careful with this, just because something works in another game doesn't mean it makes so much sense in Civ.
Click to expand...

That's true. Sim City and Anno are real time games where you have limited real estate. However I think Education and Tourism will work well. And looking to games that already have features that have been tested and work can be a real benefit to us.

And really C2C I think has become a Chimera when it comes to games. While based in Civ4 it has many aspects from Sim City, Anno, Age of Empires, Empire Earth, etc.
 
Hydromancerx said:
C2C I think has become a Chimera when it comes to games. While based in Civ4 it has many aspects from Sim City, Anno, Age of Empires, Empire Earth, etc.
Click to expand...

Well you ought to know, you really are THE architect of C2C.;)
 
My reason to agree with taking some caution in approaching new properties and doing all we can to not only modularize new ones coming in but consider first modularizing the ones we already have is that I've been finding feedback on the properties we have to be vastly polarized. In other words, the properties we have are already an undesired game complexity level for some otherwise would-be die-hard C2C fans.

Personally I love them. Personally I feel that you're vision sounds great with all of the properties you want. But I also want to see our mod to retain the ability to have crowd appeal. We generally achieve this by optionalizing polarizing mod elements. Working on two mods at once, the one with and the one without, is not easy but it's rewarding because you don't end up pissing people off who don't happen to like THAT particular project.

Properties have caused a lot of frustrated comments as it is so we have to be all the more careful moving forward, making it very clear what the role and point of any new ones would be.

Properties also take a lot of setup to get to the point where they are balanced in the game (even if they are helping to add balance...) Point being that they aren't easily implemented overnight unless the planning has been very thorough then (such as what I'm doing with the additional combat classes.)

As a result, I simply suggest new properties be implemented as a mod-mod that we can seriously then consider moving into the core as soon as you begin to feel that it has achieved enough well-roundedness that it won't make the mod feel terribly imbalanced while its in development. Make sense? Plus, that approach helps us to modularize it as we go.
 
Faustmouse are you working on any buildings or are you waiting for new buildings?
 
I'm a bit on a break right now. There is one building left but I'm too lazy to start with it since it is only one. If I had more buildings I'd beginn to make them in 1-2 Weeks again. If you propose more buildings I'd be happy, and if you want to edit my files, go ahead, I'll tell you if I start working on them again.
 
Faustmouse said:
I'm a bit on a break right now. There is one building left but I'm too lazy to start with it since it is only one. If I had more buildings I'd beginn to make them in 1-2 Weeks again. If you propose more buildings I'd be happy, and if you want to edit my files, go ahead, I'll tell you if I start working on them again.
Click to expand...

Go ahead and make you move and do what you where going to do no biggy. Hope everything goes well for you.:)
 
Faustmouse said:
I'm a bit on a break right now. There is one building left but I'm too lazy to start with it since it is only one. If I had more buildings I'd beginn to make them in 1-2 Weeks again. If you propose more buildings I'd be happy, and if you want to edit my files, go ahead, I'll tell you if I start working on them again.
Click to expand...

No problem, I have about 50 buildings left for the Prehistoric for mod mod mod (currently at Composite Tools with Insects ). Just added Hygiene, next is techs Net Trapping, Specialization, Celebration and im done.

in the Transhuman thread and in a few days I'll add more to that. There's a backlog there too.

Sent from Tapatalk
 
Faustmouse said:
I'm a bit on a break right now. There is one building left but I'm too lazy to start with it since it is only one. If I had more buildings I'd beginn to make them in 1-2 Weeks again. If you propose more buildings I'd be happy, and if you want to edit my files, go ahead, I'll tell you if I start working on them again.
Click to expand...

That's ok. I have been busy too.
 
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