New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Bil]

You could always just play in Daft's games. Or SLYNES.

Speaking of which, Thlayli, it'd be nice to hear from you sometimes!

 

[Thlayli]

Right, sorry. I'll write something this week if I can.

 

[Daftpanzer]

@flyingchicken I repeat: has you got pacific islander/seafarer sprites?

So when one province attacks another, the province income split/settlement split thing will be arbitrary. I guess that's okay. :/

My idea is provinces are just providing relativity, and give no income themselves. They are just locators, with modifiers. Income is direct from each individual settlement and merchant (resource development) and other special icon things, which change ownership individually, colour matching the owning player. So you can send your units to try to capture/raid/destroy other people's stuff any province you can reasonably get to. If there's no settlements or resources to be had, the area is totally worthless to you.

Also like you can be spread all over the place without dominating/owning any individual province. All you need is some income source. The idea is you can also be trading power or a religious power with no settlements at all and hardly any military units.

 

[Abaddon]

What controls where can you establish things?

Or can we only capture and exchange was is already on the map?

We lose the ability to make tactics based on location..

 

[Nuka-sama]

Coming Soon to a Nes by TheLizardKing and me:

Alternative WW I

 

[Abaddon]

Just try not to be a total Newb about it please?

 

[Kraznaya]

Pots and kettles...

 

[nutranurse]

Spoiler :

Overview

This NES will be like NEssos, D.Dness, and all those other dynasty-type games where diplomacy and backstabbery is key... except there will be no dynasties!

Players do not take on the roles of dynasty heads, but 'immortal' heroes of a war equivalent in scope and impact as the Trojan war. The entire ground (ten in number) had an Aeneid-like journey all around the Mediterranean-like sea that dominates the map and they finally landed in an Italian-like peninsula where they founded a Rome-like city.

As immortal heads of the city the players will--at least initially--act like the Roman Kings of pre-republic Rome mixed with Republic Consuls. The players will make decisions, go to war, ally with one another/NPCs, etc.

At the start of the game the immortals are rather old and powerful, having brought the city to preeminence in the region, but who knows how long they will have a shared vision of the future?

Things Explained in Detail

Immortals:

Spoiler :

The Immortals (the players and three NPCs) are the crux of the city, but they do not always agree. Though they are regarded like kings by everyone else, amongst each other they are equals and have to rule as a council. Free citizens are allowed to sit in on any public meeting the Immortals may have, but only members of the Patrician class are able to bring forth suits/issues at the council meetings.

Each of the Immortals will have pulls with different parts of the population and amongst the Patricians pull with certain families. Stats for the immortals revolves around their pull with the population and pretty much just that. It can be safely assumed that as great heroes of a past age the Immortals can kill a thousand men Dynasty Warriors style, so any martial stats are relatively important. All are fairly charismatic, so a charisma rating is pointless. In fact the only the stat not revolving around the population pull will be the magical items they may have on their person.

Population:

Spoiler :

The real focus of the NES, population comes in different categories (farmers, merchants, slaves, weavers, potters, metalworkers, etc. etc.) and each category supports a certain Immortal over the others. Support will be measured abstractly between one and five, one being very weak support and five being revering the Immortal as a God-on-Earth. While most categories will represent a large portion of the population, the noble families will represent only the members of that noble family.

Families:

Spoiler :

In truth the great city is a mix between an oligarchy and aristocracy. The upper and lower government, composed of the immortals and Patricians respectively, allow for only a certain few members of the population to effect the government legally. The Patrician families guard their special status fiercely and rarely will there be more than five families in existence at one time. Each family normally will back one of the immortals and only rarely will they attempt to be an independent political entity. Given the aristocratic nature of the lower government most government officials will come from the Patrician families or their clients. Thankfully the positions are just numerous enough that there is a relative balance between the families in the government.

Government:

Spoiler :

Although the Immortals are the heads of the city, they do not control the government. Players will not deal with the mortal government directly except through legislation. Only the Immortals can pass laws, but only the mortal senate can propose them. The Immortals are so removed from the mortal government that the Players will not see the exact government structure/who holds what position beyond a vague representation of the balance of power between families.

Each turn the mortal government will propose new laws for the immortals to decide on and each turn the immortals may 'suggest' laws to the Patrician families.

The Immortals have express control over any and all military matters and foreign matters. Domestics are left up to the mortal government.

Military:

Spoiler :

The masses are required to serve in the military for a minimum of ten years, as such the mainstay military stat will be a large number called the 'common pool'. The common pool will be further broken down to show the number of specialized unit types available at that time. It can be safely assumed that the difference between the special units and the common pool represents the number of poorly armed combatants.

Loyal Legions:

Spoiler :

Being immortal heroes, the Immortals can/will attract others to loyal exclusively to them (as a note, some people may end up being loyal to an entirely different entity, even abstract ones such as certain religions, philosophies, and the state). These individuals will form a loyal legion which can be called to do battle without the express approval of the Immortal council. Unlike the common pool, these legions can be trained by their leader, but only to reasonable limits that will be detailed for each loyal legion. It will be listed what kind of unit(s) compose the legion. Loyal legions often will form out of extended military campaigns.

Trade:

Spoiler :

Trade is handled abstractly and it will not really be the focus of the game. Immortals cannot engage in trade themselves (they are stupidly wealthy as it is), but they may sponsor certain trades. An Immortal may only sponsor a single trade and a trade may only sponsored by a single Immortal. Sponsoring a trade means that those people belonging to the trade will pay tribute to the Immortal, but in return the Immortal is expected to have the interests of his sponserees in mind (which will be communicated to the Immortal via stats).

Sometimes it is best to have no sponsored trade as it allows for more political mobility and changing a sponsored trade will create a certain amount of backlash from the population.

Generally it is a good idea to sponsor the trade belonging to the Patrician family which supports the immortal.

A brief summary of the bigger features of the NES I have been concocting. I already have stats for most of the enemies of the city, now all I need to do is start on the map and create the stats for the city proper.

 

[Karalysia]

So Dachsypoo when are you going to start your NES? I was promised blood.

 

[Abaddon]

I assure you, my right-click-Save-As abilities are among the top in the field!

Was talking to Nuke&TLK

 

[Daftpanzer]

Nah, not yet. I'm just about halfway through ripping the entire old modern thread and am too sleepless or distracted to go through saving runs. I'll PM you if I run into them though, and if there are I will run into them because I'm going for 100% completion.

@flyingchicken thankyous very muchs! And if like you are looking for anything inparticular I might be able to help you also.

What controls where can you establish things?

Or can we only capture and exchange was is already on the map?

We lose the ability to make tactics based on location..

@Abaddon of course you'd be able to build things in any territory you can reasonably get too, but there can be problems from overcrowding as well as like the locals deciding to attack you and stuff.

 

[nutranurse]

I know.

---

By the way fellow younger guys, did you know that the original D&D books only focused on party-level dungeon-raiding in the first eight levels out of seventy-two? At level nine you were given a castle and some land to lord over peasants and artisans, and by level fifteen you were ruling a duchy comparable to an HRE dominion (it was done in hexes, one hex being the size of the first dominion granted to you, five hexes being the size of modern Luxembourg). At higher levels the rules shifted from the mundane plights of managing empires to the inter-dimensional conflicts with the gods.

I'm reading through antiquated D&D rules right now and I'm pretty sure a lot of it is applicable to NESing.

Oh, oh, is there a link you can link us to or what?

 

[Dachs]

Okay, I'm rebalancing the economic janx and finalizing the military numbers now, but all the nation descriptions and a first draft of everything else are finished. Here's a preview of the (relatively decentralized) Cambrians and the (relatively centralized) Makedonians and their stats, just so you guys can see how this looks in practice and point out glaring and not-so-glaring flaws.

The Cambrians' military numbers are so screwy because their entire regular army is based off of mercenaries hired from the confederation's treasury. They can raise many more men by levies assuming the various subkings actually bring out their armies in the event of war.

Kingdom of Makedonia
Capital: Pella
Ruler/Player: Basileus ?/NPC
Government: Federal Aristocratic Monarchy
Factions (Confidence/Strength): Army Assembly (4/5), Mesogaioi (2/3), Boiotia (4/2), Attika (4/3), Paralioi (4/4)
Culture: Makedonian and Mainland Greek, with significant Syrian influences; Greek-speaking; almost wholly Sophist, save for small academic communities of Greek polytheists and a few Jews.
Army: 30,000 infantry, 6,000 cavalry
Army Quality: 6
Army Description: Mostly heavy shock infantry with skirmishing capabilities (thorakitai), some skirmishers and long-range missile infantry, and a small elite body of pikemen. Mostly heavy cavalry and lancers, few scout cavalry.
Navy: 120 ships
Navy Quality: 4
Income (Raw –Upkeep): 19,000-18,700 = 300
Treasury: 2,500
Infrastructure: Good
Prestige:
Description: After successfully revolting from the Perseids under Meleagros in the third century, the state of Makedonia has developed into a significant regional power, both on land and sea. Its control of the holy city of Athens and the significant natural resources of the Greek North have allowed its rulers to maintain a rivalry with the powerful Perseids. But recently, Makedonia has suffered from revolts, both in Epeiros and Thraikia, sparked by military failures against the dangerous Ruxsalannoi in the north. The beleaguered Makedonian state has a long and difficult road ahead.

Cambrian Confederacy
Capital: Cairnnewydd
Ruler/Player: Cambric Council/NPC
Government: Decentralized Theocratic Feudal Monarchic Confederacy
Factions (Confidence/Strength): Ceredigion (4/4), Powys (2/3), Dyfnaint (2/4), Elmet (4/2), Rheged (3/3)
Culture: Britannic, or Cambric; dialects of Brythonic predominate (chiefly Cambric); Celtic polytheism is virtually universal, with druids incorporated into government.
Army: 3,000 infantry
Army Quality: 4
Army Description: Chiefly sword-armed shock infantry and skirmishers; virtually all cavalry is chariotry. Few long-range missile infantry and no heavy infantry or horseback cavalry are used.
Navy: 25 ships
Navy Quality: 2
Income (Raw –Upkeep): 1500-1450 = 50
Treasury: 200
Infrastructure: Pathetic
Prestige:
Description: Brythonic life was rudely interrupted a century and a half ago when the ‘Eotenas’ began to migrate to the southwestern coasts of the island. Nearly too late, the kings of the west united in confederacy on Ynys-Mon, and by their combined efforts won a signal victory over the invaders at the ratae of the Corieltauvi eight decades ago. The ensuing comfortable hegemony has been recently disturbed with a fresh influx of invaders, along with the collapse of friendly Gododdin to the north. The kings of Cambria will doubtless be called upon to reunite soon.

 

[Abaddon]

Or do it on google and get them for free!

An i figured as much when Baldurs Gate locked you at level 8.

 

[Kraznaya]

Dachs I wanted to do a certain polity's background.

 

[Dachs]

But you don't know the entirety of the timeline...

 

[Karalysia]

Show me Ariseapersoparthosassinaslukia stats.

 

[Kraznaya]

Is Wu older or younger than Yang as a polity?

 

[Dachs]

Show me Ariseapersoparthosassinaslukia stats.

Spoiler Kingdom of Areia :

Kingdom of Areia
Capital: Hekatompylos
Ruler/Player: Basileus ?/NPC
Government: Centralized Aristocratic Theocratic Monarchy
Factions (Confidence/Strength): Army Assembly (4/5), Medioi (4/3), Zoroastrian clergy (4/3), Sousiane (2/3), Parthyaia (3/4), Merchantry (3/3)
Culture: Iranohellenic syncretism; chiefly Greek-speaking, though Iranian languages are more widespread in Media and Hyrkania; mostly Zoroastrian, with significant pockets of Sophists in the west and southeast, Jews in most major poleis, and worshippers of the Seleukid dynastic cult in Persis.
Army: 45,000 infantry, 14,000 cavalry
Army Quality: 7
Army Description: Primarily reliant on heavy spear infantry (thorakitai), Iranian native archer-spearmen, cataphract heavy cavalry, and Median medium cavalry. Light cavalry, sword infantry, and skirmishers are all scarce.
Navy: 75 ships
Navy Quality: 3
Income (Raw –Upkeep): 35,100 - 34,500 = 600
Treasury: 5,000
Infrastructure: Good
Prestige:
Description: Religion destroyed the Seleukid Empire after the great civil war. In Areia, the cult of the deified Seleukid emperors went too far, and both Greek colonists and Median natives rose against the oppressive hand of Seleukos VI in the second century. Straton II, the third Greek king of Areia, mandated instead the worship of Achoura Maznta, a step which has symbolized the syncretic nature of the Areian Iranohellenic culture. Having made great gains at the expense of the near-dead Seleukid Empire and the recently extinct Karmanian state, Areia stands in a position to dominate the oikoumene.

Is Wu older or younger than Yang as a polity?

Younger. The first Yang ruler was a distant relative of the last Qi Emperor, and attempted to run the Empire "business-as-usual" upon seizing the throne after the latter's death. He couldn't hold everything together, though, lacking an appropriate mixture of popularity and ability, and the provinces revolted one by one until the Yang were left with comparatively little. They've regained a great deal since then to become the second-ranking land power in China.

 

[Karalysia]

Centralized Aristocratic Theocratic Monarchy

Sexy

Achoura Maznta

What?

And why is the capital next to like Turkmenistan of all places?