New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[North King]

Also included would be the Aztec Triple Alliance breaking up because of different reactions to the foreigners,

lolwut?

I don't know why on Earth that justification, of all others, was used. Maybe because of population disruptions leading to infighting -- most likely the crash that smallpox would bring (95%+ of the population died) would lead to wide-scale rebellions (as in RL) and the city of Tenochtitlan would either fall and the other cities would fight for dominance -- or, as is more likely without foreign help, I think, it would win and exert an even greater hegemony. The latter, of course, is the more interesting scenario, as it presents a more real possibility of an independent Mexico far into the future...

Moreover, the likelihood of Mali setting up colonies without European intervention, while fun and quite romantic, is also rather unlikely. Europe was heir to a much more sophisticated seafaring (wanted to say marinating) tradition; its naval technology would have been much superior to that of the African Empire, and would likely blow them out of the water.


Which is not to say I don't like the idea; I find it fun and would perhaps not mind seeing it happen, but I just don't see it as extremely likely.

 

[Shadowbound]

Columbus discovered America because he was an idiot that ignored the mathematics, which clearly stated that India was a lot further away than he could reach. If Bakr 2.0 did send out the expeditions, then it's plausible. You'd need someone more informed to tell you about the naval technology Portugal and Mali had, though.

As for the colonization, and the Granadan exile stuff, you probably need someone smarter than me to figure out the social pressures needed.

 

[Cynovolans]

I'm suprised the expedition didn't discover the Americas(or at least survive a trip). They were way more prepared Columbus, each ship had enough supplies for two years. And the shipmakers were from all around the Mediterranean.

Edit

@North King-I originally intended to have a certain faction of the Aztec alliance convert to Islam but now I am doubting the Aztecs would want anything to do Mali. And about Mali colonizing Abu Bakr II would have created colonies on any land he found, there was nothing else he wanted do with the mali empire.

 

[Daftpanzer]

(Alleged) Scottish Knights Templars voyage to North America:

Henry I Sinclair, Earl of Orkney

Knights Templar in North America

 

[Cynovolans]

Now that was one theory I didn't know.

 

[Cynovolans]

As for the colonization, and the Granadan exile stuff, you probably need someone smarter than me to figure out the social pressures needed.

I added the Granada refugees to make it more interesting. I really got the idea of the NES by asking myself about what if Islam reached the Americas first.

Now I just want to know if people would join this NES, disregarding historical improbabilities. With all these people planning Space-neses I am just not really sure anyone would want to join a NES like this.

 

[Terrance888]

I would. I'll take the Granadan Refugees!

 

[Cynovolans]

Yay, first reserved nation!

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I do find the idea intriguing- and has anyone played the campaign of the original Age of Empires III?

 

[Ninja Dude]

If we're throwing realism out the window, you could have some vaugely Chinese kingdoms off in South America founded by some mythical seafaring hero or something Have a few Viking-ish realms in the northern parts of America and you're all good

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Ooh, dibs on Norse America!

 

[Daftpanzer]

Also: Wikipedia page on Pre-Columbian contacts if you haven't seen it already.

 

[Cynovolans]

If we're throwing realism out the window, you could have some vaugely Chinese kingdoms off in South America founded by some mythical seafaring hero or something Have a few Viking-ish realms in the northern parts of America and you're all good

No this is before Zheng-He's time so no Chinese kingdoms in the Americas, and scotland is going to settle the areas of North America that had vikings.

 

[Masada]

The reactions here are interesting. In maritime terms the route from Mali across to Brazil isn't all that hard, the prevailing winds are very favorable, sufficiently so that Brazil was discovered by accident. It wasn't uncommon for Portuguese ships to miscalculate their approach around the Cape of Good Hope or from the European only to end up hitting Brazil's coast. If we want to look at Columbus's route by way of comparison, you'll find that the winds were less favorable and the result was less sure. In all honesty I don't believe that the maritime equipment would have been as important when the route was considerably easier. But that's just me and my studying.

 

[Angst]

The reactions here are interesting. In maritime terms the route from Mali across to Brazil isn't all that hard, the prevailing winds are very favorable, sufficiently so that Brazil was discovered by accident. It wasn't uncommon for Portuguese ships to miscalculate their approach around the Cape of Good Hope or from the European only to end up hitting Brazil's coast. If we want to look at Columbus's route by way of comparison, you'll find that the winds were less favorable and the result was less sure. In all honesty I don't believe that the maritime equipment would have been as important when the route was considerably easier. But that's just me and my studying.

What I thought too.

I feel so smart, thinking in the lines of Masada. xD

 

[Cynovolans]

They may have actually found the Americas, a survivor from the first expedition said everyone died while going through a river they found after months of sailing west.

 

[Ninja Dude]

No this is before Zheng-He's time so no Chinese kingdoms in the Americas, and scotland is going to settle the areas of North America that had vikings.

What year is this supposed to take place in?

 

[Cynovolans]

I have it planned to take place in 1350.

 

[North King]

The reactions here are interesting. In maritime terms the route from Mali across to Brazil isn't all that hard, the prevailing winds are very favorable, sufficiently so that Brazil was discovered by accident. It wasn't uncommon for Portuguese ships to miscalculate their approach around the Cape of Good Hope or from the European only to end up hitting Brazil's coast. If we want to look at Columbus's route by way of comparison, you'll find that the winds were less favorable and the result was less sure. In all honesty I don't believe that the maritime equipment would have been as important when the route was considerably easier. But that's just me and my studying.

Not disputing this at all. The point is not that the Europeans were particularly well-placed -- they were not well-placed to dominate the Indian Ocean, either. They strong-armed their way into that, more or less.

 

[Masada]

Not disputing this at all. The point is not that the Europeans were particularly well-placed -- they were not well-placed to dominate the Indian Ocean, either. They strong-armed their way into that, more or less.

I didn't think you were unless Aztecs originate from Europe? In any case I don't see quite the point your trying to make here there's quite a large window for Europe to fail enough to push the date of European discovery back. I'm just saying.

In all honesty the hardest bit would be finding people who would want to live in parts of the New World discovered, Brazil. There simply isn't much there and the value of the other nearest targets simply wasn't existent or likely to exist until some not inconsiderable time in the future.