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New Official Version - June 19th (6-19)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

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    I mean how AIs treat players who are spamming Wonders. Previously there were a lot of complaints that it was too harsh, but there haven't been any complaints that I've seen recently - so were my tweaks satisfactory is my question. :)

    Egypt's entire schtick is building Wonders, so that might be an outlier.
     
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  2. Teholb

    Teholb Warlord

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    As an aside, I previously played at Emp, however I've had to adjust my difficulty down to King after the last few releases. That said, I've found that the AI appears to be far too forgiving of wonder spam. I can build as many as I can/care to, and I don't feel like the AI is responsive to it.
     
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  3. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Just checking, didn't guided missiles use to have super evasion against interception?
     
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  4. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    From my experiences the wonder spammer penalty seems to be in a good place at the moment? They certainly respond to it, but still consider other factors as well. Haven't played a lot of games on this patch all the way through though; I'm being stubborn and trying to play on the settings I used to be able to win on instead of going down one XD.
    I tend to see that as something that is inevitable, same with space-flight regulations. As you say though, peaceful science victories seem easier to win than peaceful cultural victories (even as Arabia).
    Interestingly in the game I just played the two leaders (Brazil and Siam) both went Freedom, if I remember correctly. I did too. Usually it's me vs. the leader or me as the leader vs. other close rivals though, similar to how your describe.

    In my games, Autocracy seems the least popular pick which is interesting. Communism is often first (as suits a Huge map).
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  5. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    And now...the conclusion.

    Defeat on Turn 378

    Spoiler :
    upload_2020-7-11_2-59-24.png


    So this game in many ways went just like last game. For a long while, I really felt in the drivers seat tourism wise. You want to talk about a weird game, I converted the entire west continent to Judaism because all of the religions were founded on the other side. And another civ proposed my religion as world religion, and we actually managed to pass it!!! It lasted only 2 WC sessions but still, most I have seen in a long time!

    The Netherlands was suffering from massive boredom (108% tourism at one point due to it), and for a time my gleaming Arabian capital seemed all but unstoppable.

    And then as we slip into the endgame, and my science is flying high....but I just can't get the last CV I need. Once the inevitable travel ban and sanctions started rolling in (either I would get sanctioned, or if I managed to weasel out of it they would sanction a key civ I needed to keep TRs with), I just couldn't push tourism fast enough. Not just with the netherlands (the boredom bonuses had gone up in smoke at this point), even Venice still outwited me culture wise.

    Once again, I had to turn to SV. However, this game my strategic supplies were abysmal. I was low on everything except funny enough oil and uranium. Small iron, small coal, and small aluminum. I built every refinery and recycling center I could to try and make it work, though far slower than I should have. Ultimately I didn't have the alumnium to build all of the spaceship factories, so I had to rely on my capitals production. I started building parts but not quickly enough, and Venice said enough was enough. I've mentioned before that Tall often has to choose between a strong navy or strong land. I choose navy, so when an actual honest to god land invasion occurred (xcoms and mech infantry)...they just rolled me.

    Venice! I wasn't sure whether to rage or to be impressed, lately Venice has been on a tare in my games, it has gone from a joke civ to a major contender in several of my recent games. My only consolation at the end was I actually got a robot battle of GDR vs GDR. I had to pay for it though with a nuking of my capital:( I will say though, that if I had had a good aluminum supply, I would have won by SV long before Venice attacked me.


    Ultimately this game suggests to me that something is a bit off on peaceful CV. Arabia is my jam on CV, and this was a pretty darn solid CV overall. I had TRs running with netherlands nearly all game, I had tons of great works, got all the CV wonders (I was rolling in wonders), was stealing every enemy great work in sight (I've only recently learned just how insanely good late game thieves are). lots of great musicians giving me 50k tourism at the end, my biggest culture rival had tons of boredom for a while....there really wasn't much more to be done in terms of actual tourism play. The fact that I couldn't make it work, and against Netherlands who I don't consider a powerhouse cultural civ....suggests to me that there is a tweak needed somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  6. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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    On another thread there is an opinion that AI on high difficulties gets too much culture from bonus yields. Maybe it should be reduced a bit. Or culture from bonus yields shouldn't count as a defence against tourism.
     
  7. Soupy Delicious

    Soupy Delicious Warlord

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    Anyone know why my bomber planes are just disappearing? I've seen it happen twice now. I'll send it to attack, it'll take the regular 2 damage or whatever and land back at my city.

    There's no 'unit lost' notification, no anti-aircraft (fighting a ww1 tech-level Rome right now) and these bombers keep bloody disappearing. They're always at full health, and the only thing that can intercept it are his cruisers (naval extended mod) which have 10% interception chance, I believe. But there's no sign they're being shot down.

    (Also Engineering Corps allows my workers to both jesus-walk and jesus-build-roads over Lake Victoria [WW] :p)

    Anyway, I think I already made a praise post but I'll do it again. I last played this mod 4 years ago, and it has improved so vastly since then I have no reason to play Civ any other way. What y'all have done with the building, unit & tech tree overhauls... incredible.

    (also hate to sound like such a condescending fudge, but jeeesus how can yall play on standard speed? To see people at turn 300 in the endgame is so depressing. Like there's no time to have any interesting wars or progression at all)

    edit: Are we meant to be able to build roads on Peaks? Like, all my units can use these roads, even non Engineering Corps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  8. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    It is a bug that has been fixed for next version.
     
  9. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    Depends. Are you playing The Inca? Generally speaking other civs can't, but it's part of the Incan Unique Ability :).

    I wasn't aware that Engineering Corps let civilian units move through mountains or natural wonders, if that's what is happening :|. Maybe I just never tried it?
     
  10. tranx

    tranx Civilized

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    Yeah I didn't want to report it because I am such a bad player to begin with but playing with Egypt, Prince difficulty, Huge map, I was going for CV but it was impossible to achieve. I built 19 wonders, had 64 great works, 12 trade routes to other civs, diplomats in all foreign capitals, but I still couldn't flip the other great cultural civs (I don't know if these numbers are relevant at all, tbh)

    Maybe there should be a mechanism where at some point - when ideologies come in play, I think - the biggest cultural civ would just make the balance naturally tip in its favor, and other cultural civs output would actually start helping the cultural leader (just like how IRL China (or India, or France or Japan, Germany...) despite having multimillenial traditions only produce pop music and Hollywood-ian movies nowadays)
     
  11. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    Engineering Corps does indeed let civilians cross mountains, and where workers can go, roads will follow. Ice still counts as water though.
     
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  12. Soupy Delicious

    Soupy Delicious Warlord

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    I think it's cool that you can build mountain passes in the latter parts of the game, but I think it runs the risk of making peaks lose value in their important role of making the terrain interesting and different.

    An idea would be to make road & rails have a much higher maintenance cost on mountains, to prevent the player from simply converting all of their mountains into regular tiles. :0
     
  13. SpankmyMetroid

    SpankmyMetroid Warlord

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    Maybe civs you are culturally dominant over should contribute a percentage of their culture to your tourism? If their culture is from yours (it dominates) it might as well be an advertisement for your civ.
     
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  14. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN King

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    So... both culture victory and diplomatic victory are highly science and tech dependent. Did you get the CNN tower? Tourism explodes in the late game after that one tech. Did you pass and time International games to take place at that point?
     
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  15. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Yes and Yes.
     
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  16. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN King

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    Hmm. Maybe I'll try for a CV on emperor.
     
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  17. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Please do! One man's opinion shouldn't be enough to suggest balance changes, so I would love to hear more thoughts on peaceful CV and see if I'm just failing to play it right, or people are noticing some issues here.
     
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  18. DeAnno

    DeAnno Prince

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    I played a mostly peaceful CV as 5 city Tradition/Artistry/Industry/Freedom Egypt on Immortal recently where Authority Carthage had snowballed moderately. Luckily they were adjacent to me and I was able to war through three core cities ending with their taking capital during Industrial and a little after too (my main forcecomp at that point was massed and expendable drill 2 city attack rifles, some field gun backup) I also had a war to kill a settler from Inca moving to one of the spots I wanted in the early game, but aside from that I didn't do any fighting.

    Both during and after the war I isolated Carthage diplomatically, resulting in sanctions and lots of random declares on them. I also stole tons of their Great Works, it was the primary job of my spies throughout Industrial onwards. Meanwhile, I did a lot of tech trading and made a lot of money. Even with all that, by the end Carthage still required more musician bombs than Brazil did (the other big culture civ.) Despite my popularity travel ban was passed against me too.

    I filled out almost all the tech tree before I won on turn 351; I was in fact doing some space stuff by then as a just in case backup plan in a couple of my cities, since I had enough money to buy whatever units I would ever need, including 2 GDRs at the end which never had to fight. The world eventually started turning on me but was still occupied partially with Carthage and never had the bravery to declare. By the end I'd built Opera House, CN Tower, and Great Firewall to enhance and defend my tourism.

    Cultural Victory does feel harder than Space in a lot of ways. Cultural you really have to work for, while Space can be a backup plan pretty easily if things go wrong. At the same time Cultural usually takes almost as long as Space to pull off even when it works.
     
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  19. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    Larry King up top overseeing the CV and finalizing blueprints for the CEP like
    Spoiler :
    Palp.gif
     
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  20. tranx

    tranx Civilized

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    What if for CV you wouldn't need to be influential over ALL other civilizations, but only say 80% of them. That would leave out other runners for the CV. If it made the CV attainable too early, devs could raise the threshold for becoming influential over another civ (or make it that your culture has to be dominant over 80% of other civs).
     

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