New Tech Tree Playtesting + Feedback

[Leoreth]

Yes, you need to control it yourself, trade/tribute doesn't work.

 

[Tigranes]

After Trump failed to describe Nuclear Triad ( land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), strategic bombers, and submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) ) -- I thought that someone who plays with our new Tech tree might do the same mistake Modern submarine-launched ballistic missiles are closely related to ICBMs (range of over 5,500 kilometers (3,000 nmi)), and in many cases SLBMs and ICBMs may be part of the same family of weapons.

Our new Nuclear Sub carries Spies and Great People, while regular Sub has no cargo capacity. Nuclear should carry missiles. Because we have no more Tactical Nukes I suggest to allow Nuclear Subs to carry 1 ICBM. In addition ICBM must have very large (intercontinental) but NOT infinite range (much more realistic this way and a very good thing game-wise). Regular Subs can go back caring Spies and Great People like in vanila Civ.

 

[Tigranes]

Korean UB, already strongly nerfed compared to vanila, has lost it's last advantage with the new Tech Tree! Paper and Education are now same tier techs, and one needs both anyway when going for Printing. I simply suggest giving UB 1 free scholar, or giving it +35% , or moving it to much earlier tech to be fair to Koreans...

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, I think I need to figure something out for universities in general, they do come too early now.

 

[soul-breathing]

Also Korean core area is not all the penisula in the latest version, the 3 plots of east line are historical, not core.

 

[Tigranes]

Also Korean core area is not all the penisula in the latest version, the 3 plots of east line are historical, not core.

2 tiles on the East and 1 tile North (Iron) -- to be exact. All in all 9 Core tiles and 3 Historical -- I think this is less than any civ in the game.

 

[Tigranes]

I think I see very satisfactory tech pace for 3000 BC and 1700 AD starts on default speeds and difficulties. My 3000 BC Korea became a Renaissance era tech leader with 3 Core cities only (plus Pagan), Printing was totally within the reach, and when Germany spawned I was only 2 techs behind (decided not to sink ships and prolong the game). Also I need to take back my remark about America being much inferior to the Old World on 1700 spawn -- I was able to catch up with the rest of the world using the right strategy. But my 600 American starts show very little colonisation in Americas and somewhat backward Old World. And, of course, we still have to balance Babylonian and Egyptian tech related UHV somehow...

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, that's reassuring!

 

[Tigranes]

But the bad news are that 3 Old World (Colossus, GL and ToA) and ALL 3 New World Pantheon Wonders were not built up by anyone! New World civs are getting too much Barbarian pressure, Mayans collapsed within few turns after birth. Perhaps New World Native/Indy/Barbarian cities should get free Wonders after certain date? And by the way one should not be able to build them as human player in 1700s, why do some Pantheon Wonders never go obsolete?

 

[Leoreth]

I removed obsoletion techs from most (or even all?) wonders when transitioning to the new techs to rethink how obsoletion is supposed to work. So that part simply isn't finished yet.

 

[Tigranes]

This unstable, unstable world... But seriously, though, AI does not understand how stability works and makes zero effort to be more stable. It only can happen by a chance. Which is bad for strategy game when you expect your opponent to develop a long term strategy to be victorious. But for that they have to be stable first...

 

[J422]

The floating gardens come too late (crop rotation) to be built by aztecs for their UHV.
They could come at engineering ?

 

[Leoreth]

Good point, I'll think about it.

 

[Leoreth]

I'm looking for tech buttons again:
- Social Services
- Construction (the current button is fine, but also great for Leverage, so if a replacement is found that would be awesome)

Please let me know if you have any ideas.

 

[Leoreth]

The new civics are available here now. See below for the new civics system:

Spoiler :

GOVERNMENT
Chiefdom (low upkeep)
Despotism (Property, low upkeep): can hurry production by sacrificing population, +1 happiness from Palace, Monument
Monarchy (Ceremony, medium upkeep): +1 happiness per military unit
Republic (Writing, high upkeep): +1 food per specialist, -1 food for Cottage, Hamlet, Village, Town, can hurry units using gold
Elective (Politics, low upkeep): -50% city distance maintenance, +3 happiness in largest cities
State Party (Social Services, medium upkeep): +3 espionage per specialist, no number of cities maintenance
Democracy (Representation, high upkeep): +1 free specialist

LEGITIMACY
Authority (low upkeep)
Citizenship (Law, medium upkeep): +1 happiness per specialist, double production for Aqueduct, Forge, Library, Market, Jail
Vassalage (Nobility, low upkeep): extra military units without upkeep, units produced with food, +1 food +2 commerce for Fort, +1 happiness from Castle
Meritocracy (Education, low upkeep): +50% science in capital, +1 food for Windmill, Watermill, +50% experience within borders
Centralism (Statecraft, high upkeep): +50% production and wealth in capital
Ideology (Journalism, low upkeep): +1 production per Village, Town, +50% great general birth, +1 happiness from News Press, Broadcast Tower
Constitution (Social Contract, medium upkeep): +100% great people birth, unhappiness for civs without Constitution, double statesman slots

SOCIETY
Traditionalism (low upkeep)
Slavery (Masonry, low upkeep): +1 production for Quarry, +1 commerce for Plantation, can use slaves
Manorialism (Calendar, low upkeep): +1 commerce for Farm, Watermill, +1 production for Pasture, +50% worker production
Caste System (Contract, high upkeep): +1 food for Plantation, +50% improvement construction speed
Individualism (Civil Liberties, medium upkeep): +1 commerce for Village, Town, +100% growth for Cottage, Village, Hamlet
Totalitarianism (Psychology, no upkeep): +2 production per angry citizen, no war weariness, +25% military unit production
Egalitarianism (Civil Rights, high upkeep): +2 science per specialist, double artist, scientist, engineer slots

ECONOMY
Reciprocity (low upkeep)
Redistribution (Arithmetics, high upkeep): +25% food in capital, no foreign trade, double production for Granary
Merchant Trade (Currency, low upkeep): +1 trade route
Regulated Trade (Guilds, medium upkeep): -1 trade route, +50% commerce in capital, +1 commerce for Workshop, Plantation, double production for Customs House
Free Enterprise (Economics, low upkeep): +50% corporation commerce, +50% trade route commerce, double merchant slots
Central Planning (Macroeconomics, medium upkeep): +1 production per specialist, +1 production for Workshop, Lumbermill, double production for Factory, Coal Plant
Public Welfare (Labour Unions, high upkeep): +2 commerce per excess happiness, -50% corporation unhappiness, +2 commerce for Windmill, Nature Reserve, Marine Reserve, can hurry building production with gold

RELIGION
Animism (low upkeep)
Deification (Divination, medium upkeep): +25% wonder production, -1 state religion happiness, +1 happiness from Pagan Temple
Clergy (Priesthood, high upkeep): +25% building production with state religion
Monasticism (Ethics, low upkeep): +50% great people birth with state religion
Theocracy (Doctrine, high upkeep): +2 experience with state religion, no non-state-religion spread, +1 unhappiness for non-state religions, double priest slots
Tolerance (Civil Liberties, low upkeep): +1 happiness for non-state religions, +50% culture in capital, can build missionaries without Monastery
Secularism (Civil Rights, medium upkeep): no state religion, +10% science, double production for University, Hospital, Laboratory

TERRITORY
Sovereignty (low upkeep)
Conquest (Generalship, medium upkeep): +2 experience for land units, +100% number of cities upkeep
Tributaries (Feudalism, low upkeep): +5 commerce in capital per vassal city, +50% city capture gold
Isolationism (Heritage, medium upkeep): +1 specialist in core cities, no foreign trade
Colonialism (Geography, high upkeep): +2 commerce in capital per happiness resource, +4 experience for sea units, can use slaves in colonies
Nationhood (Nationalism, medium upkeep): can draft 2 units per turn, +2 production for Fort
Multilateralism (Globalism, low upkeep): +100% trade income with defensive pact partners, +25% trade income as production, +1 gold upkeep per military unit

Other changes:
- Clergy renamed to Doctrine
- Constitution (tech) renamed to Social Contract
- Metal Casting changes to Cement
- Consumerism also requires Railroad
- Happiness from military units is limited to half the city size
- all civs start with +1 unhappiness from non-state religions by default
- having vassals requires Contract
- classical wonders (previously Pantheon) require having no state religion

You can discuss this here, or in the New Civics thread, whatever you prefer.

I'm especially looking for feedback/suggestions for civics stability, you can see the positive/negative effects by hovering over a civic in the civics advisor as usual.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

In the 1700 AD scenario, none of the civs have any starting techs.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I really like most of the civics, except for Conquest and Isolationism. Both sound a little too weak imo.

 

[J422]

The auto play is blocked, and there are lots of errors if you pick a non-autoplay civ.

Spoiler :

 

[Leoreth]

In the 1700 AD scenario, none of the civs have any starting techs.

The auto play is blocked, and there are lots of errors if you pick a non-autoplay civ.

Spoiler :

View attachment 467170 View attachment 467171

Everything is working for me, are you sure nothing went wrong when pulling the new changes?

 

[Leoreth]

Nevermind, pushed some fixes.