1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

New Tech Tree Playtesting + Feedback

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Yes, you need to control it yourself, trade/tribute doesn't work.
     
  2. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    9,615
    After Trump failed to describe Nuclear Triad ( land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), strategic bombers, and submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) ) -- I thought that someone who plays with our new Tech tree might do the same mistake ;) Modern submarine-launched ballistic missiles are closely related to ICBMs (range of over 5,500 kilometers (3,000 nmi)), and in many cases SLBMs and ICBMs may be part of the same family of weapons.

    Our new Nuclear Sub carries Spies and Great People, while regular Sub has no cargo capacity. Nuclear should carry missiles. Because we have no more Tactical Nukes I suggest to allow Nuclear Subs to carry 1 ICBM. In addition ICBM must have very large (intercontinental) but NOT infinite range (much more realistic this way and a very good thing game-wise). Regular Subs can go back caring Spies and Great People like in vanila Civ.
     
  3. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    9,615
    Korean UB, already strongly nerfed compared to vanila, has lost it's last advantage with the new Tech Tree! Paper and Education are now same tier techs, and one needs both anyway when going for Printing. I simply suggest giving UB 1 free scholar, or giving it +35% :science:, or moving it to much earlier tech to be fair to Koreans...:help:
     
  4. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Yeah, I think I need to figure something out for universities in general, they do come too early now.
     
  5. soul-breathing

    soul-breathing King

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    987
    Location:
    Hangzhou,China PR
    Also Korean core area is not all the penisula in the latest version, the 3 plots of east line are historical, not core.
     
  6. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    9,615
    2 tiles on the East and 1 tile North (Iron) -- to be exact. All in all 9 Core tiles and 3 Historical -- I think this is less than any civ in the game.
     
  7. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    9,615
    I think I see very satisfactory tech pace for 3000 BC and 1700 AD starts on default speeds and difficulties. My 3000 BC Korea became a Renaissance era tech leader with 3 Core cities only (plus Pagan), Printing was totally within the reach, and when Germany spawned I was only 2 techs behind (decided not to sink ships and prolong the game). Also I need to take back my remark about America being much inferior to the Old World on 1700 spawn -- I was able to catch up with the rest of the world using the right strategy. But my 600 American starts show very little colonisation in Americas and somewhat backward Old World. And, of course, we still have to balance Babylonian and Egyptian tech related UHV somehow...
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Okay, that's reassuring!
     
  9. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    9,615
    But the bad news are that 3 Old World (Colossus, GL and ToA) and ALL 3 New World Pantheon Wonders were not built up by anyone! New World civs are getting too much Barbarian pressure, Mayans collapsed within few turns after birth. Perhaps New World Native/Indy/Barbarian cities should get free Wonders after certain date? And by the way one should not be able to build them as human player in 1700s, why do some Pantheon Wonders never go obsolete?
     
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    I removed obsoletion techs from most (or even all?) wonders when transitioning to the new techs to rethink how obsoletion is supposed to work. So that part simply isn't finished yet.
     
  11. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    9,615
    Civ4ScreenShot0099.JPG

    This unstable, unstable world... But seriously, though, AI does not understand how stability works and makes zero effort to be more stable. It only can happen by a chance. Which is bad for strategy game when you expect your opponent to develop a long term strategy to be victorious. But for that they have to be stable first...
     
  12. J422

    J422 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    France
    The floating gardens come too late (crop rotation) to be built by aztecs for their UHV.
    They could come at engineering ?
     
  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Good point, I'll think about it.
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    I'm looking for tech buttons again:
    - Social Services
    - Construction (the current button is fine, but also great for Leverage, so if a replacement is found that would be awesome)

    Please let me know if you have any ideas.
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    The new civics are available here now. See below for the new civics system:

    Spoiler :
    GOVERNMENT
    Chiefdom (low upkeep)
    Despotism (Property, low upkeep): can hurry production by sacrificing population, +1 happiness from Palace, Monument
    Monarchy (Ceremony, medium upkeep): +1 happiness per military unit
    Republic (Writing, high upkeep): +1 food per specialist, -1 food for Cottage, Hamlet, Village, Town, can hurry units using gold
    Elective (Politics, low upkeep): -50% city distance maintenance, +3 happiness in largest cities
    State Party (Social Services, medium upkeep): +3 espionage per specialist, no number of cities maintenance
    Democracy (Representation, high upkeep): +1 free specialist

    LEGITIMACY
    Authority (low upkeep)
    Citizenship (Law, medium upkeep): +1 happiness per specialist, double production for Aqueduct, Forge, Library, Market, Jail
    Vassalage (Nobility, low upkeep): extra military units without upkeep, units produced with food, +1 food +2 commerce for Fort, +1 happiness from Castle
    Meritocracy (Education, low upkeep): +50% science in capital, +1 food for Windmill, Watermill, +50% experience within borders
    Centralism (Statecraft, high upkeep): +50% production and wealth in capital
    Ideology (Journalism, low upkeep): +1 production per Village, Town, +50% great general birth, +1 happiness from News Press, Broadcast Tower
    Constitution (Social Contract, medium upkeep): +100% great people birth, unhappiness for civs without Constitution, double statesman slots

    SOCIETY
    Traditionalism (low upkeep)
    Slavery (Masonry, low upkeep): +1 production for Quarry, +1 commerce for Plantation, can use slaves
    Manorialism (Calendar, low upkeep): +1 commerce for Farm, Watermill, +1 production for Pasture, +50% worker production
    Caste System (Contract, high upkeep): +1 food for Plantation, +50% improvement construction speed
    Individualism (Civil Liberties, medium upkeep): +1 commerce for Village, Town, +100% growth for Cottage, Village, Hamlet
    Totalitarianism (Psychology, no upkeep): +2 production per angry citizen, no war weariness, +25% military unit production
    Egalitarianism (Civil Rights, high upkeep): +2 science per specialist, double artist, scientist, engineer slots

    ECONOMY
    Reciprocity (low upkeep)
    Redistribution (Arithmetics, high upkeep): +25% food in capital, no foreign trade, double production for Granary
    Merchant Trade (Currency, low upkeep): +1 trade route
    Regulated Trade (Guilds, medium upkeep): -1 trade route, +50% commerce in capital, +1 commerce for Workshop, Plantation, double production for Customs House
    Free Enterprise (Economics, low upkeep): +50% corporation commerce, +50% trade route commerce, double merchant slots
    Central Planning (Macroeconomics, medium upkeep): +1 production per specialist, +1 production for Workshop, Lumbermill, double production for Factory, Coal Plant
    Public Welfare (Labour Unions, high upkeep): +2 commerce per excess happiness, -50% corporation unhappiness, +2 commerce for Windmill, Nature Reserve, Marine Reserve, can hurry building production with gold

    RELIGION
    Animism (low upkeep)
    Deification (Divination, medium upkeep): +25% wonder production, -1 state religion happiness, +1 happiness from Pagan Temple
    Clergy (Priesthood, high upkeep): +25% building production with state religion
    Monasticism (Ethics, low upkeep): +50% great people birth with state religion
    Theocracy (Doctrine, high upkeep): +2 experience with state religion, no non-state-religion spread, +1 unhappiness for non-state religions, double priest slots
    Tolerance (Civil Liberties, low upkeep): +1 happiness for non-state religions, +50% culture in capital, can build missionaries without Monastery
    Secularism (Civil Rights, medium upkeep): no state religion, +10% science, double production for University, Hospital, Laboratory

    TERRITORY
    Sovereignty (low upkeep)
    Conquest (Generalship, medium upkeep): +2 experience for land units, +100% number of cities upkeep
    Tributaries (Feudalism, low upkeep): +5 commerce in capital per vassal city, +50% city capture gold
    Isolationism (Heritage, medium upkeep): +1 specialist in core cities, no foreign trade
    Colonialism (Geography, high upkeep): +2 commerce in capital per happiness resource, +4 experience for sea units, can use slaves in colonies
    Nationhood (Nationalism, medium upkeep): can draft 2 units per turn, +2 production for Fort
    Multilateralism (Globalism, low upkeep): +100% trade income with defensive pact partners, +25% trade income as production, +1 gold upkeep per military unit


    Other changes:
    - Clergy renamed to Doctrine
    - Constitution (tech) renamed to Social Contract
    - Metal Casting changes to Cement
    - Consumerism also requires Railroad
    - Happiness from military units is limited to half the city size
    - all civs start with +1 unhappiness from non-state religions by default
    - having vassals requires Contract
    - classical wonders (previously Pantheon) require having no state religion

    You can discuss this here, or in the New Civics thread, whatever you prefer.

    I'm especially looking for feedback/suggestions for civics stability, you can see the positive/negative effects by hovering over a civic in the civics advisor as usual.
     
    need my speed likes this.
  16. FinalLegendZero

    FinalLegendZero Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    534
    In the 1700 AD scenario, none of the civs have any starting techs.
     
  17. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Properly Paranoid Proletarian

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    8,734
    Location:
    The cooler Germany
    I really like most of the civics, except for Conquest and Isolationism. Both sound a little too weak imo.
     
  18. J422

    J422 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    France
    The auto play is blocked, and there are lots of errors if you pick a non-autoplay civ.
    Spoiler :
    Sans titr22e.png Sans titr222e.png
     
  19. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Everything is working for me, are you sure nothing went wrong when pulling the new changes?
     
  20. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Nevermind, pushed some fixes.
     

Share This Page