New Zealand parliament has enough support for same sex marriage bill to pass

[Traitorfish]

blah blah blah backtracking blah

5char

 

[El_Machinae]

Scotland to introduce gay marriage

New Zealand parliament has enough support for same sex marriage bill to pass

Okay, now the bigoted red herring of "what's next, marrying farm animals?" should rear its head. I mean, C'MON!!!! Now that I've typed this, you're all thinking it ...

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

I recognize that it's only a matter of time before Western Europe and North America all accept SSM, but convincing everyone else will be different.

 

[warpus]

1. Interracial marriage
2. Homosexual marriage
3. Farm animal marriage
4. Plants marrying ipods

 

[GhostWriter16]

So you also feel that equal rights for women won't occure around the world?

A possibility but your statement is... still questionable.





But the context and way you placed your smiles and words are... questionable.

And why do you not exactly like SSM other than the meger love of symbolism which only leads to self-destruction?



The thing is that "marriage" is currently restricted by law.



Well I am please you seem to not like mass murder...

Wait one moment.

Evil of allowing gay marraige?

What is evil about gay marriage?

Why are you using the term "evil" for a form of expression love?

Your statement has so much bigoted context to it...



If you were trying to say that then say it probelly. Hence no smiles when talking of hate crimes if possible or people may take you for lacking empathy?

I will admit that execution of those who are convicted of homosexual sex with due process is a bit different than "Murder." Its pretty awful, but if homosexuality is a crime that is normally punishable by death in a given country, I honestly wouldn't call it "Murder." Close, but not quite. If a homosexual were executed for his crime when he knew what the consequences were, VS a completely innocent person getting murdered by a serial killer, well, both are bad but I think the second one is a bit worse. Note that this is because homosexual sex is an actual action which is different than "Being gay." Its an action that is a crime in certain countries. I think its an awful law, but to call it "Murder" I don't agree with, its execution for a crime partnered with a pathetically stupid law.

Note that I still think its awful, but I just don't think execution for a crime, even if the law is stupid, = murder. I'm not saying its morally no worse than stealing a candy bar, but its not murder.

As for equal rights for women around the world, I'll say the same thing, we will never win the entire world. In that situation I'm 100% on your side, but it still won't happen.

I'm done arguing gay marriage with anyone that uses "Bigot" to describe opponents of it. You people are more than half the reason I'm so opposed to gay marriage, much as how certain very vocal conservatives (Bachman and the like) make me care even less about banning gay marriage. Its a bunch of petty distractions about an irrelevant issue, and allows both sides to make an excuse that politicians are actually worth more than they are...

 

[Ailedhoo]

I will admit that execution of those who are convicted of homosexual sex with due process is a bit different than "Murder." Its pretty awful, but if homosexuality is a crime that is normally punishable by death in a given country, I honestly wouldn't call it "Murder." Close, but not quite. If a homosexual were executed for his crime when he knew what the consequences were, VS a completely innocent person getting murdered by a serial killer, well, both are bad but I think the second one is a bit worse. Note that this is because homosexual sex is an actual action which is different than "Being gay." Its an action that is a crime in certain countries. I think its an awful law, but to call it "Murder" I don't agree with, its execution for a crime partnered with a pathetically stupid law.

So killing by a law is not murder? Does that mean genozide is not mass murder becauses its by the code of a national force?

Note that I still think its awful, but I just don't think execution for a crime, even if the law is stupid, = murder. I'm not saying its morally no worse than stealing a candy bar, but its not murder.

Your reasoning... is without reason.

As for equal rights for women around the world, I'll say the same thing, we will never win the entire world. In that situation I'm 100% on your side, but it still won't happen.

Realy? You got a magic ball?

We cannot underestimate evolution in these matters.

I'm done arguing gay marriage with anyone that uses "Bigot" to describe opponents of it.

You mean when you call gay marraige "evil?"

You people are more than half the reason I'm so opposed to gay marriage, much as how certain very vocal conservatives (Bachman and the like) make me care even less about banning gay marriage.

So basically you oppose gay marraige out of your immaturity?

Its a bunch of petty distractions about an irrelevant issue, and allows both sides to make an excuse that politicians are actually worth more than they are...

Yep. You are immature.

You gave no reason why you think that "SSM is evil?"

Why did you say SSM is evil?

I called you a bigot becuase your stating SSM as evil is... questionable.

Please give reason or your making it more justification to call you a bigot, along with titles such as "immature."

 

[GhostWriter16]

So killing by a law is not murder? Does that mean genozide is not mass murder becauses its by the code of a national force?

Some people would argue that based on the technical definition of murder. I'm not though. There's a difference between killing an innocent person just because, and having a fundamentally unfair law. There's a difference.

If we could read minds and passed a law that everyone who was attracted to men would be killed, that's murder.

If we passed a law that said that those who have gay sex will be killed, that's not murder. Its a law that a certain choice, albeit one that it makes no sense to me to ban, will be executed.

Killing based on race, religion, gender, age, I'll even give you sexual orientation, that would be murder.

A legal execution for homosexual behavior however, is just a law enforcing morality, and a particularly gruesome one at that, but I wouldn't really call it "Murder" because its really a legal execution for someone that breaks certain laws. In the same sense, if there were a law killing "All straight people" than that's murder, but if it kills everyone who engages in straight sex outside of marriage (Let's even say they have a wacky system of morality and gay sex outside marriage is considered OK) that's still not murder. Wrong, but not murder.

Or at least, not morally equivalent to murder.

I don't know, I guess if someone knowingly does something that will lead to the death penalty if they get caught, and its not on account of religion (Which is a human life) or freedom of speech (Another human right) I'm not going to call it morally equivalent to murder. Very extreme morality laws =/= murder.

I feel like I'm almost taking it not seriously enough, but I am. Its a serious issue. I don't think we should be allied with a country that does it if we could help it at all. But I don't quite think its "Murder".

Hitler's execution of the Jews, on the other hand, had no basis whatsoever. It wasn't because they broke a moral code, even an arbitrary one, it was because they were Jews. That's simply murder, or at least morally equal to it (Actually, worse because they were tortured as well.)

I'm not responding to the rest since I'm being a lot more mature than you are, and all you do is call me names. I don't even care if I'm right at this point, I clearly "Won" due to the fact that I simply stated my opinions and you insulted them.

If I say "So and so is a fact" or whatever, sure, you can ask for proof, but if I just say that something is my opinion, I'm not obligated to prove it or be considered "immmature." I also am a human being and have the right to my views.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Some people would argue that based on the technical definition of murder. I'm not though. There's a difference between killing an innocent person just because, and having a fundamentally unfair law. There's a difference.

Realy?

If we could read minds and passed a law that everyone who was attracted to men would be killed, that's murder.

If we passed a law that said that those who have gay sex will be killed, that's not murder. Its a law that a certain choice, albeit one that it makes no sense to me to ban, will be executed.

Murder to the eyes of the empaths.

Killing based on race, religion, gender, age, I'll even give you sexual orientation, that would be murder.

A legal execution for homosexual behavior however, is just a law enforcing morality, and a particularly gruesome one at that, but I wouldn't really call it "Murder" because its really a legal execution for someone that breaks certain laws. In the same sense, if there were a law killing "All straight people" than that's murder, but if it kills everyone who engages in straight sex outside of marriage (Let's even say they have a wacky system of morality and gay sex outside marriage is considered OK) that's still not murder. Wrong, but not murder.

Or at least, not morally equivalent to murder.

So it would be morally expected for one to execute a black for seeking a relationship with a white?

I don't know, I guess if someone knowingly does something that will lead to the death penalty if they get caught, and its not on account of religion (Which is a human life) or freedom of speech (Another human right) I'm not going to call it morally equivalent to murder. Very extreme morality laws =/= murder.

Your... selective.

I feel like I'm almost taking it not seriously enough, but I am. Its a serious issue. I don't think we should be allied with a country that does it if we could help it at all. But I don't quite think its "Murder".

???

Hitler's execution of the Jews, on the other hand, had no basis whatsoever. It wasn't because they broke a moral code, even an arbitrary one, it was because they were Jews. That's simply murder, or at least morally equal to it (Actually, worse because they were tortured as well.)

Hitler's killing of the Jews were law under his law. Your destroying your own argument...

I'm not responding to the rest since I'm being a lot more mature than you are, and all you do is call me names. I don't even care if I'm right at this point, I clearly "Won" due to the fact that I simply stated my opinions and you insulted them.

Your ego showing...

You mature?

You did not win. You fail to give reason. I have made a point and you failed to give reason. There is not victory without reason.

If I say "So and so is a fact" or whatever, sure, you can ask for proof, but if I just say that something is my opinion, I'm not obligated to prove it or be considered "immmature." I also am a human being and have the right to my views.

But this is a forum of debate. Your meant to give reason.

All I know is that you are the one who is not giving reason.

You have not "won."

The only thing you "won" is the "honour" of being mocked for your failure to give reason and your failure to debate with reason.

 

[Traitorfish]

*snip*

That's a lot of verbiage to come to the conclusion "I should be able to kill whoever I like, but nobody else should".

 

[WindFish]

rant.

How dare people not tolerate my intolerance

 

[El_Machinae]

Sympathies, it's hard to tease out and parse such a concept as "when is legal killing murder and when is it not?"

 

[bhsup]

Okay, now the bigoted red herring of "what's next, marrying farm animals?" should rear its head. I mean, C'MON!!!! Now that I've typed this, you're all thinking it ...

Only because YOU brought it up!!!


Link to video.

Look at the flock, they're all in shock! Here comes that mutton fan!

 

[otago]

Even the Young Nationals? Wow they must be quite different to some of the Young Liberals here!

You do have young liberals who are in favour of SSM, the difference is the young Nats have got rid of all the mouth breathing types, they know that having them in the party does nothing for the party come election time.
Or as one of our National MPs explained to some visiting American politicians, you have your Republicans and Democrats, we have two liberal Democratic parties in National and Labour.

 

[otago]

There is a lot of regret among those who voted against the homosexual reform bill back in 1986, too many of them drank the religious kool aid that gays would be dragging rugby teams off the street and having their evil way with them.

One reason the law went through was that the social conservatives over reached themselves which lead to normally conservative types voting for the law to give two fingers to the social conservatives.

 

[Arwon]

I recognize that it's only a matter of time before Western Europe and North America all accept SSM, but convincing everyone else will be different.

Vietnam says 'hi'

 

[emzie]

I recognize that it's only a matter of time before Western Europe and North America all accept SSM, but convincing everyone else will be different.

The future of the world lies with the Muslim countries!

I'm going to open a beer to your misery on the day SSM is legalized on a federal level. The more upset you and your bigoted kind are, the more I'll savour every last drop of that beer. I want to see people like you crushed.

Good day

 

[useless]

The future of the world lies with the Muslim countries!

I'm going to open a beer to your misery on the day SSM is legalized on a federal level. The more upset you and your bigoted kind are, the more I'll savour every last drop of that beer. I want to see people like you crushed.

Good day

Nothing else needs to be said.

 

[El_Machinae]

The future of the world lies with the Muslim countries!

I'm going to open a beer to your misery on the day SSM is legalized on a federal level. The more upset you and your bigoted kind are, the more I'll savour every last drop of that beer. I want to see people like you crushed.

Good day

The Koran forbids the drinking of beer, infidel

 

[Old Hippy]

there will be a lot of reading of the Australian marriage acts this week... especially the bit on recognition of foreign marriage...

either way it will do a lot for tourism in New Zealand

 

[GhostWriter16]

Sympathies, it's hard to tease out and parse such a concept as "when is legal killing murder and when is it not?"

It is indeed hard. I think "Legal execution" simply for no reason, or without a trial, could morally be compared to murder. I don't think a legal execution with a trial for an actual crime [crime being defined as an illegal action(And not simply for simply, say, being black, or something like that)] I wouldn't quite call it "Murder." Wrong, sure, very wrong, sure, but not murder. They have the right to make their own laws.

I agree this isn't simple though. I wouldn't define it as murder but I could see it as arguable.

The future of the world lies with the Muslim countries!

I'm going to open a beer to your misery on the day SSM is legalized on a federal level. The more upset you and your bigoted kind are, the more I'll savour every last drop of that beer. I want to see people like you crushed.

Good day

The "At a Federal Level" part bothers me a lot more than the "Legalize gay marriage" part. There is nothing in the constitution that allows a federal law legalizing gay marriage, and an amendment to the effect I would consider a pretty useless waste of the amendment process (For the record, I am against the conservative idea of banning it nationwide via amendment as well. State's rights.)

The Koran forbids the drinking of beer, infidel

This Is Epic