None Dare Call it Christian Terrorism

[Borachio]

Hello?

Coo-ee!

 

[Formaldehyde]

Christianity really is no 'religion of love', just as Islam is not a 'religion of peace'. (Both are essentially convert or die based beliefs).

That's odd. I can't think of a single missionary who forced people to convert to Christianity under the penalty of death. Nor can I find any reference to black Muslims in the US killing people who refused to convert.

Source?

The problem with all three Abrahamic religions is that there are sufficient scriptures to rationalize just about any sort of atrocity imaginable. But you can't really claim that the modern form of any of the three still condone such acts, much less actively promote them. The only people who still think that way are those who believe every single word found in those ancient scriptures.

 

[Samson]

Is not the point that in many cases of Islamic terrorism the reason given for the act is religious, not that the individuals involved are Muslims. It seems this guy, while he may well be a Christian (I am not sure being an ex-member of the KKK is quite proof) the reasons given were racial. So this is racial terrorism.

Just as 9/11 was NOT racial terrorism, even though the perpetrators were of a single race the reason was religious so that was Islamic terrorism.

[EDIT] This is assuming this guy is not after people that follow the Jewish religion but those who are ethnically Jewish. It seems that way to me, BICBW.

 

[tetley]

The Jews were commanded by the same God in the Scriptures to kill every single one of an enemy tribe. They didn't and took wives from the tribe instead of killing them.

Ah, so JEWISH terrorism. Right?

 

[Tigranes]

Coo-ee!

Cooee! (IPA /ku:'i:/) is a shout used in Australia, usually in the Bush, to attract attention, find missing people, or indicate one's own location. When done correctly - loudly and shrilly - a call of "cooee" can carry over a considerable distance[citation needed]. The distance one's cooee call travels can be a matter of competitive pride. It is also known as a call of help, which can blend in with different natural sounds in the bush.

The word "cooee" originates from the Dharuk language

 

[Formaldehyde]

Is not the point that in many cases of Islamic terrorism the reason given for the act is religious, not that the individuals involved are Muslims. It seems this guy, while he may well be a Christian (I am not sure being an ex-member of the KKK is quite proof) the reasons given were racial. So this is racial terrorism.

So your contention is that many Jews and Catholics aren't really white?

...said during his trial that he wanted to kill as many Jews as possible because he believes they are destroying the white gentile race

Find a single person who has ever belonged to this white Protestant hate group who doesn't consider himself to be a Christian.

Just as 9/11 was NOT racial terrorism, even though the perpetrators were of a single race the reason was religious so that was Islamic terrorism.

Only the reason wasn't "religious" at all. 9/11 was a direct result of the US government incessantly meddling in the affairs of the Middle East. Bin Laden made that quite clear.

 

[Samson]

So your contention is that Jews and Catholics aren't really white?

No. His contention was that Jews and gentiles are different races, Jews "are destroying the white gentile race" and so Jews should be killed. Not becuase they worship the same god in a slightly different way, but because they are Jewish.

I am aware that what people call the race of Jews has very little truth in real genetic terms. But these labels mean something to the people who carry out these crimes, and it is these reasons that motivate them, not directly religious reasons.

Consider that an athiest neo-nazi may well find common cause with this guy. Can you imagine an atheist anti-american finding common cause with Al-Queda?

Only the reason wasn't "religious" at all.

Sure, the real reason was the usual one of power of one set of people over another set of people. However the reason given was the occupation of the Islamic holy land by the armies of America, and that that is against the teaching of the Koran. This is clearly a religious reason.

 

[aelf]

Ah, so JEWISH terrorism. Right?

I'm not calling terrorism. You can call it any dumb name you want.

You also seem to have missed the point it's the same God, who was incarnated in Christ, who ordered mass killings in the Old Testament times, i.e. He is the Christian God as much as He is the Jewish God.

 

[tetley]

Except that you seem to have to missed the point:

The thread is, "None dare call it Christian terrorism". Yet here you are doing rhetorical semantics about it being the same God and stuff, while ignoring the abundantly in-your-face obvious fact that JEWS are the ones perpetrating that.

Talk about not daring call it something.

 

[aelf]

I must conclude that you are not able to read. I was responding to a very specific part of a post that was comparing the origins of Christianity and the origins of Islam and concluding that the latter is violent while the former isn't. I have not weighed in at all about whether anything should be considered terrorism.

And who ordered the Jews to kill every single member of their enemies' tribe? You're acting like they did it (or didn't do it, in this case) all on their own volition. Are you sure you are a Christian?

 

[Formaldehyde]

No. His contention was that Jews and gentiles are different races, Jews "are destroying the white gentile race" and so Jews should be killed. Not becuase they worship the same god in a slightly different way, but because they are Jewish.

Again, they also hate Catholics too. So what "race" are they?

Again, the KKK is well known as a Christian group which promotes terrorism against those they hate. That is a documented fact.

It seems you are trying to do all you possibly can to try to turn this into something other than what it obviously is, much like what Tigranes has been doing.

"None dare call it Christian terrorism"...

Sure, the real reason was the usual one of power of one set of people over another set of people. However the reason given was the occupation of the Islamic holy land by the armies of America, and that that is against the teaching of the Koran. This is clearly a religious reason.

That wasn't the only reason given.

In Osama Bin Laden's November 2002 "Letter to America",[5][6] he explicitly stated that al-Qaeda's motives for their attacks include: Western support for attacking Muslims in Somalia, supporting Russian atrocities against Muslims in Chechnya, supporting the Indian oppression against Muslims in Kashmir, the Jewish aggression against Muslims in Lebanon, the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia,[6][7][8] US support of Israel,[9][10] and sanctions against Iraq.[11]

And I'm sure you can find passages in the Koran which ban "occupation of the Islamic holy land by the armies of America".

 

[hangman]

My home city recently had a similar incident with a neo-Nazi type. I presume he chose our area (he was actually from Alabama) because we are widely known throughout the South for being heavily Cajun and heavily Catholic. To more... radical ears, that sounds like "inferior Celtic race" and "pagan pseudo-Christians."

 

[Samson]

Again, they also hate Catholics too. So what "race" are they?

I did not know that. I guess an act against Catholics because they are Catholics not protestants would be protestant terrorism. I would not be certain however. I never considered the various groups involved in the troubles of Northern Ireland Catholics or protestant terrorism. While these were labels used, many of those involved were athiests and the religious names were basically labels for "people descended from the english who Cromwell / William brought over" and "those descended from the natives at that time". The reasons were not that those people worshipped God in a different way, it was who they are.

Again, the KKK is well known as a Christian group which promotes terrorism against those they hate. That is a documented fact.

It seems you are trying to do all you possibly can to try to turn this into something other than what it obviously is, much like what Tigranes has been doing.

"None dare call it Christian terrorism"...

I am trying to define these terms in a way that makes sense to me. Everyone who is a terrorist is from a certain race, has certain religious views, has a certain political ideology. It is not these that make their actions X sort of terrorism. The reasons they state (or believe) to be the cause of their actions define this. The abortion bombings are clearly Christian terrorism because the reason is religious. From the information provided this is not, because the reason is racial.

That wasn't the only reason given.

And I'm sure you can find passages in the Koran which ban "occupation of the Islamic holy land by the armies of America".

Many of those seem like "the Koran commands that I protect all fellow Muslims". I thought that there was instruction to maintain Muslim control of the Islamic holy land in the Koran, but I could be wrong.

 

[brennan]

This is Christian terrorism.

There. Can we lock the thread now please.

 

[hangman]

I did not know that. I guess an act against Catholics because they are Catholics not protestants would be protestant terrorism. I would not be certain however. I never considered the various groups involved in the troubles of Northern Ireland Catholics or protestant terrorism. While these were labels used, many of those involved were athiests and the religious names were basically labels for "people descended from the english who Cromwell / William brought over" and "those descended from the natives at that time". The reasons were not that those people worshipped God in a different way, it was who they are.

It sort of depends on how the individual views it. Many Protestants have no issues with Catholics as being part of Christendom. A few extreme Protestant sects do though, and they don't consider Catholics to be Christian at all. So to them, Christianity is synonymous with Protestantism. Any terrorism that would result from that against Catholics could easily be "Christian" from the perpetrator's perspective. I think this is a very American thing though, I'm not sure it works quite the same in other countries.

 

[Tigranes]

The Jews were commanded by the same God in the Scriptures to kill every single one of an enemy tribe. They didn't and took wives from the tribe instead of killing them. God punished them for it; the same God whose begotten son is and who is consubstantial with Jesus Christ.

Let's not pretend that the Bible isn't replete with divinely-sanctioned mass killings that do not need to be theologically explained away.

There is a reason Old testament called Old and the New one New. There is a reason history is divided BC and AD. God is always the same, but people are different and times are different. Plague always exists but with our new knowledge we can stay plague free now. Physical death punishment triggered by sins in Old Testament is a shadow of much harsher spiritual death punishment revealed in New Testament. Before you teach someone calculus you would have to go through multiplication table.The story about entire nation put to death for their sins is teaching us that entire nation may end up in hell, if all the people support KKK or Nazis, for example.

I don't mind going into serious theological explanations/discussions -- but not in this troll thread. Any sensible discussion becomes off-topic under deliberately offensive title this thread has.

 

[Formaldehyde]

It is ironic that you are so incredibly offended by blatantly obvious Christian terrorism, but you have no problem at all spreading the usual Islamophobic nonsense about Muslim terrorism.

Thanks for helping to reinforce the entire point of this thread so convincingly.

 

[bhavv]

That's odd. I can't think of a single missionary who forced people to convert to Christianity under the penalty of death. Nor can I find any reference to black Muslims in the US killing people who refused to convert.

Source?

The problem with all three Abrahamic religions is that there are sufficient scriptures to rationalize just about any sort of atrocity imaginable. But you can't really claim that the modern form of any of the three still condone such acts, much less actively promote them. The only people who still think that way are those who believe every single word found in those ancient scriptures.

Source = bible and koran.

I didnt state that missionaries follow their religion to the exact wording of their scriptures.

 

[Formaldehyde]

So, back to the usual nonsense that modern religion is no different than that practiced in the distant past, and despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

[Tigranes]

It is ironic that you are so incredibly offended by blatantly obvious Christian terrorism, but you have no problem at all spreading the usual Islamophobic nonsense about Muslim terrorism.

Thanks for helping to reinforce the entire point of this thread so convincingly.

Terror against early Christians ended up spreading Christianity. Terror by early Muslims ended up spreading Islam. It's ok to be ignorant, but it is not ok to call white thing black and black thing white.