Ok, so Winston was the one who died. Catharsis still needs to explain himself, but Backwards Logic now also looks extremely suspicious, given that everyone who has ever opposed him is now dead.
Not only that, but he votes for basically everyone that voted for him. Agressively counter-attacking people is something he does a lot as a mafia.
A few years ago, Askthepizzaguy came up with this theory called "Mafia ESP" that states that people the mafia vote for tend to end up dead. You're the only one Backwards has voted for that's still alive, and he voted you on Day Two.
He was a good target for the actual scum team - it lines up the lynch on me. However, choxorn is definitely scum. We have the writeup snafu by Sprig, yet he's concretely going after me. Won't even consider Winston's alive - he's innocent. It's like he already knows who's really dead with his opening comment despite everything being mixed up. Oh, and by the way, he's one of the ones that subscribed to the 'one of KM/Winston/BL is scum theory.' Lynch KM, kill Winston, lynch the guy who looks the most like scum and make a case pointing that out in no uncertain terms. So he's one of them, ladies and gentleman.
To be honest, I didn't even notice the snafu, it was late and I was tired and I just wanted to see who died and didn't really bother reading the write-up very closely. I saw the "Winston died" part but not the part that has since been changed.
And why exactly would I bother killing Winston? If I was scum and you weren't, then I would know that both you and Winston were innocent, and having two lynchbaity innocents going after each other again would only help me.
I think you're mafia because this is the way you act as mafia, because KingMorgan and Winston Hughes brought up some good points yesterday, and because my gut feeling is telling me that you're full of it.
I forget if choxorn catharsis have any connection but choxorn spaceman had junk earlier about choxorn voting spaceman to switch to darth feather then next day spaceman voting chox an item. They probably arent together.
Catharsis did the scum "spaceman is innocent I know it" day 2
Choxorn of course is just a scum but who is his partner
I guess you're right that me and spaceman's actions towards each other have been a bit weird- basically, spaceman forgot about the no-PM's rule and PM'ed me, I also forgot about the rule and PM'ed him back, and we talked a bit before remembering we were cheating, enough to get us to vote each other orbs. Our bad, we screwed up.
This is inherently not true, as two mana orbs were found on Darth Feather, and there's no way he could have acquired them outside of the thread because the rule change allowing it hadn't taken effect yet.
I fully expect to be lynched today, to be honest. Problem is I'm town and the evil dudes know this. If I'm scum, killing Winston after KM got lynched puts the spotlight solely on me which let's face it, isn't good for business. If I leave him alive, I have a viable alternative for lynch today as the consensus among a few of you is that one of KM, Winston and/or BL is scum.
He was a good target for the actual scum team - it lines up the lynch on me. However, choxorn is definitely scum. We have the writeup snafu by Sprig, yet he's concretely going after me. Won't even consider Winston's alive - he's innocent. It's like he already knows who's really dead with his opening comment despite everything being mixed up. Oh, and by the way, he's one of the ones that subscribed to the 'one of KM/Winston/BL is scum theory.' Lynch KM, kill Winston, lynch the guy who looks the most like scum and make a case pointing that out in no uncertain terms. So he's one of them, ladies and gentleman.
I have to admit, this is a very townie post. It gives a reason for pulling one of the other major lead candidates out of the lynch, hence BL adds more pressure onto himself by removing an alternative, and choxorn did legitimately seem to have PIS there.
I will unvote Catharsis.
At the same time, I'm not fully convinced of choxorn's innocence. Kennigit, whom I don't trust at all, and who looks like mafia, has been calling for Choxorn's head for the entire game. Active people have been dyeing, and choxorn and BL are the last major active players with the exception of myself (and mafia may not see me as competent enough to be worth killing. After all, my track record as a player is relatively average). For the entire game, BL has been going after active players in thread (Visor, Winston, and now Choxorn), and all of them so far have turned out to be innocent, and everyone who BL went after has turned up dead.
The mafia has actively targeted veteran players. Notably, Pizzaguy, who choxorn mentioned in his post, was killed despite being totally inactive (so, from a non-metagame perspective, a bad target). As a result, almost no one survives who would have known BL, and hence, no one can identify BL's actions as scummy, except possibly choxorn and Winston, who are also veterans, and who have.
Moreover, Choxorn's "PIS" is explainable. I also assumed that Winston had died until I read BL's post, and realized that something was wrong with the writeup.
It is possible that BL has been framed, but overall, it seems to me that BL has made too many "mistakes" that have been very convenient for the mafia so far. That, coupled with Pizzaguy's death earlier makes me vote to lynch Backwards Logic.
I guess you're right that me and spaceman's actions towards each other have been a bit weird- basically, spaceman forgot about the no-PM's rule and PM'ed me, I also forgot about the rule and PM'ed him back, and we talked a bit before remembering we were cheating, enough to get us to vote each other orbs. Our bad, we screwed up.
Pretty much everyone is a veteran player; i would think killing randomly as much more effective.
I expect some nonvet players to particularly target some of the players that died.
Also note jarrema was clearly killed over mana. Now whether the idea was hatched by like bsmith/catharsis to frame choxorn today is a question, and one that choxorn and catharsis can more easily answer if they explain any reason why they aggressively have mana when dual wielding townies are dead (for case of catharsis), why they have "pretty much the same thing [as kingmorgan for a PG on having many mana" for choxorn, why their vote patterns have consistently shifted and bended ehile pretending that the same behaviour by BL and others was somehow worse just because he bothered to write things up, and why choxorn has now delayed for 2 nights the important use of the earth mana spell
Now if like the invisceration junk is dependent on the souls and things trapped in mana then whatever, the dead impacting the living has not been described nor understood yet.
But catharsis and choxorn both claim essentially duplicate roles as already dead townies and wont due such things as say, show the game thread a crafted earth mana
Not only that, but he votes for basically everyone that voted for him. Agressively counter-attacking people is something he does a lot as a mafia.
A few years ago, Askthepizzaguy came up with this theory called "Mafia ESP" that states that people the mafia vote for tend to end up dead. You're the only one Backwards has voted for that's still alive, and he voted you on Day Two.
To be honest, I didn't even notice the snafu, it was late and I was tired and I just wanted to see who died and didn't really bother reading the write-up very closely. I saw the "Winston died" part but not the part that has since been changed.
And why exactly would I bother killing Winston? If I was scum and you weren't, then I would know that both you and Winston were innocent, and having two lynchbaity innocents going after each other again would only help me.
I think you're mafia because this is the way you act as mafia, because KingMorgan and Winston Hughes brought up some good points yesterday, and because my gut feeling is telling me that you're full of it.
If that's how I play as mafia, go back and prove it. I'm more keen to sit in the shadows and let everyone else kill each other off, defending myself as necessary. As innocent, I throw votes around like it's nobody's business because I have nothing to lose by not. The fact I've missed so bad to me is hilarious - I typically don't suck this bad. Rust I guess. But then again I'm one vote - it took others to complete those lynches. Tell me again, when was the last time you stuck your neck out on a limb? I've done it all game. Voting me isn't exactly revolutionary at this stage, but understandable. It is the easy move at this point.
We're at, or almost at, lynch and lose, assuming three mafia in a game of fifteen and the two kills per night continue. You don't need two innocents battling out, you just need one slam-dunk to give you the time you need. I'm more of a slam dunk than Winston was.
The crazy part is as lynch-worthy as I am, your case makes no sense. As for everyone who's pointed a finger at me is now dead - not true, Catharsis is still alive and kicking. I started the vote against Winston too, and Feather, where you provided the coup-de-grace final third vote. Not a whole lot of counter-attacking as you call it (Visor I'll concede). Assuming I'm evil, why would I make myself front and center in killing every single innocent? I could have left my vote on spaceman on day two and not cared. Visor got lynched with a whopping two votes in what I can only assume was a coin-flip over me. Yea, I went after Winston on the next day, but even I admitted the case wasn't great. Then you helped swing votes over to KM, and now are saying he and Winston made good points against me. What good points exactly did KM make against me? The 'theatre' Winston and I supposedly had going? But he's innocent, so that can't be true, especially if you think I'm scum. Another thing I've noticed - every time you've gotten an Orb, someone's gotten eviscerated. Speculation: I don't think you can give Kennigit the theoretically crafted Earth Orb, because you used it to eviscerate Jarrema. Prove me wrong and show it to us. Spaceman, by my count you should have two water orbs (one you started with and one you got). What have you been doing with them? Still got 'em? Related: Why is it everyone else besides you two who have gotten Orbs dead?
(((This part was started before Kennigit's and choxorn's conversation in-thread)))
Here's another issue I have: Day two, the Spaceman -> Darth Feather vote. During the switch, you say he's off the hook, but you still have your eye on him, as if he's still suspicious. I mean, why else would you throw that in there? Then next day, he votes the Earth mana to you and you go 'he seems trustworthy.' What changed there? Was the early voting theatre also? Now you guys have been voting mana back and forth to each other since then, and the two of you flipped the vote to KM after Catharsis got the ball rolling. For someone you had voted on day two, you two have been working very, very closely together. Why? I'm going with your mafia QT link, not this cheating you speak of.
I expect(ed) spaceman to vote me, yet I have this issue as well -
Spoilerspaceman quote, bolding mine :
At the same time, I'm not fully convinced of choxorn's innocence. Kennigit, whom I don't trust at all, and who looks like mafia, has been calling for Choxorn's head for the entire game. Active people have been dyeing, and choxorn and BL are the last major active players with the exception of myself (and mafia may not see me as competent enough to be worth killing. After all, my track record as a player is relatively average). For the entire game, BL has been going after active players in thread (Visor, Winston, and now Choxorn), and all of them so far have turned out to be innocent, and everyone who BL went after has turned up dead.
The mafia has actively targeted veteran players. Notably, Pizzaguy, who choxorn mentioned in his post, was killed despite being totally inactive (so, from a non-metagame perspective, a bad target). As a result, almost no one survives who would have known BL, and hence, no one can identify BL's actions as scummy, except possibly choxorn and Winston, who are also veterans, and who have.
Moreover, Choxorn's "PIS" is explainable. I also assumed that Winston had died until I read BL's post, and realized that something was wrong with the writeup.
It is possible that BL has been framed, but overall, it seems to me that BL has made too many "mistakes" that have been very convenient for the mafia so far. That, coupled with Pizzaguy's death earlier makes me vote to lynch Backwards Logic.
Yet you two have been voting orbs back and forth and now voting together for the better part of two game days. This reeks of more intentional distancing. And news flash - everyone in this game is a veteran player. And ATPG being innocent suddenly makes me a candidate to be scum now? Where was this accusation earlier?
So again, someone find an example, any example, of me playing balls to the wall as mafia like this. And other examples of me doing exactly this as town. Actually in classic ATPG fashion, I'll do it for you:
NOTW XXVII: One post. Died Night Three.
NOTW XXIX: Nine posts (rest are post-game). Survived all game.
NOTW XXVIII: (Was innocent here) 12 posts. Killed Night Four.
NOTW XLI: (Third-party something or other) - 2 posts, killed the equivalent of Day 5
NOTW L: (innocent) - 16 posts, killed day 6.
Darths and Droids (innocent) 58 posts. Survived-ish all game.
Paired Mafia: 6 posts, killed day five.
Someone's going to say None Shall Pass, but that was a special 'convert me' scenario. I was technically only Cult one day there.
So you'll forgive me I hope for answering KingMorgan's question from just before his death like this: I did have two mana. They were of different types. I no longer have two mana.
If you had two mana, where did they go, why, and how? If given away, how did you come to trust them enough to give away two mana? If they were used for scans/blocks/whatever, what were those results? They were two different ones? So then there would have been two people you would have given them away to then, right? And those two people still happen to be alive as those orbs haven't turned up? I don't have either, you say you don't have them. I doubt Auto has one. You're still going after Kennigit, so he likely doesn't have one. Which leaves BSmith, spaceman, and/or choxorn. Who wants to step forward and confirm Catharsis has actually given them away? Or, they were consumed in eviscerations, as I speculated earlier with choxorn. I guess by your wording you could have one mana, but the questions still remain regardless.
And:
Why continue to go after Kennigit? The case you made on KM was based on Kennigit's distancing himself from KM by not accusing him and instead choxorn with an identical case on presumably each. KM from what I saw, did nothing to distance himself from Kennigit so this was a one-way street. The only way continuing to go after Kennigit makes sense is if KM was evil, but he wasn't. This needs an explanation.
There's a lot of fishy stuff going on. Who wants to start making sense and answering stuff?
Also note jarrema was clearly killed over mana. Now whether the idea was hatched by like bsmith/catharsis to frame choxorn today is a question, and one that choxorn and catharsis can more easily answer if they explain any reason why they aggressively have mana when dual wielding townies are dead (for case of catharsis), why they have "pretty much the same thing [as kingmorgan for a PG on having many mana" for choxorn, why their vote patterns have consistently shifted and bended ehile pretending that the same behaviour by BL and others was somehow worse just because he bothered to write things up, and why choxorn has now delayed for 2 nights the important use of the earth mana spell
What? I started with one Earth Orb, and was voted a second a few nights ago. I used the Earth II spell once before that orb broke and I was back down to one. Last night I got a Raw Orb. I haven't been delaying using the earth II spell, because there was only one night this entire game where I could actually use that spell.
Seriously, you've been talking nonsense this entire game. I don't know what the hell you're trying to do, but it seems very mafia-ish to me.
If that's how I play as mafia, go back and prove it. I'm more keen to sit in the shadows and let everyone else kill each other off, defending myself as necessary. As innocent, I throw votes around like it's nobody's business because I have nothing to lose by not. The fact I've missed so bad to me is hilarious - I typically don't suck this bad. Rust I guess. But then again I'm one vote - it took others to complete those lynches. Tell me again, when was the last time you stuck your neck out on a limb? I've done it all game. Voting me isn't exactly revolutionary at this stage, but understandable. It is the easy move at this point.
Well, sure, you like to sit in the shadows, but the "defending myself as necessary" is the important part of this sentence. The low activity means there's been plenty of times where a small amount of pressure on you, or perhaps a teammate of yours, would have been worrying, and forced you to defend yourself.
The crazy part is as lynch-worthy as I am, your case makes no sense. As for everyone who's pointed a finger at me is now dead - not true, Catharsis is still alive and kicking.
I started the vote against Winston too, and Feather, where you provided the coup-de-grace final third vote. Not a whole lot of counter-attacking as you call it (Visor I'll concede).
Assuming I'm evil, why would I make myself front and center in killing every single innocent? I could have left my vote on spaceman on day two and not cared. Visor got lynched with a whopping two votes in what I can only assume was a coin-flip over me.
It's not so much that you've been active- you haven't been that active, but neither has anyone else. You really weren't front-and-center until yesterday.
Yea, I went after Winston on the next day, but even I admitted the case wasn't great. Then you helped swing votes over to KM, and now are saying he and Winston made good points against me. What good points exactly did KM make against me? The 'theatre' Winston and I supposedly had going? But he's innocent, so that can't be true, especially if you think I'm scum.
I seem to have forgotten exactly what he said or why I voted for him. In retrospect, it was a terrible case and I should have voted for you yesterday. My bad, I screwed up.
Honestly, a good bit of my case is gut feeling, but my gut is feeling very strongly about you.
Another thing I've noticed - every time you've gotten an Orb, someone's gotten eviscerated. Speculation: I don't think you can give Kennigit the theoretically crafted Earth Orb, because you used it to eviscerate Jarrema. Prove me wrong and show it to us. Spaceman, by my count you should have two water orbs (one you started with and one you got). What have you been doing with them? Still got 'em? Related: Why is it everyone else besides you two who have gotten Orbs dead?
I totally can give Kennigit my Earth Orb, but I'm not going to, because I don't trust that guy for a second. I could show my orbs to you, but I don't trust you, either.
I'm fine with showing my orbs to someone else, though. I think they will find that they are quite existent, shiny, and useful.
As you said, you died too early for this to mean anything, as far as I can tell nobody talked about you in that game until after you died (I don't know, it was before my time). Next...
Looking back at it... wow, you're right. The only times you were really active were when you were going against Nictel and TheLastOne, and you voted TLO before he voted you.
I could have sworn there was more going on with you in that game, but I guess it was all behind the scenes.
Again, nothing really went against you in thread for most of the game, so you didn't really need to defend yourself.
Oh, I remember that one! That's the one where you lurked until I roleblocked you and voted for you, then you made up a bunch of stuff to try to get me lynched!
And that's what I'm trying to get at here: You normally do hide and not do much when you're mafia, but you come out quickly when you need to defend yourself, and you've needed to defend yourself on multiple occasions in this game.
And who's to say you can't change your behavior as mafia over time, anyway?
As you stated in the stat thread, everyone was third-party from game design. I argued I was mafia because I was the mafia team (wanted another W in the category ). You said nope! So I didn't count it from your definition. Game setup wasn't standard by any stretch.
And that's what I'm trying to get at here: You normally do hide and not do much when you're mafia, but you come out quickly when you need to defend yourself, and you've needed to defend yourself on multiple occasions in this game.
And who's to say you can't change your behavior as mafia over time, anyway?
I've had to defend myself because I've stuck my neck out making cases on people. I didn't do any of that in the other games much at all, not until victory was relatively assured. Now sure, I could change my style over time, I'll concede that one. But to be honest I'm not like ATPG in that regard where I can do that and be comfortable. Surviving as mafia is kind of a big deal to me. Getting lynched by my own doing? Not something I care to risk.
I totally can give Kennigit my Earth Orb, but I'm not going to, because I don't trust that guy for a second. I could show my orbs to you, but I don't trust you, either.
I'm fine with showing my orbs to someone else, though. I think they will find that they are quite existent, shiny, and useful.
You can do it publicly in-thread. Kennigit's done it, why can't you? Hell, if I'm scum and gonna die today anyway, what's the harm in showing me directly? That quote doesn't work either.
GM:
The Cunning Conjurer holds up two Bright Green Earth Mana Orbs. They looked exactly the same as the one that the Illusionist showed everybody.
The Supreme Sorcerer shows everybody his two Orbs as well not to be outdone. They are blue and clearly Water Mana Orbs.
Oh in the words of the late Winston, you should all feel guilty for missing your sprites!!!
What? I started with one Earth Orb, and was voted a second a few nights ago. I used the Earth II spell once before that orb broke and I was back down to one. Last night I got a Raw Orb. I haven't been delaying using the earth II spell, because there was only one night this entire game where I could actually use that spell.
Seriously, you've been talking nonsense this entire game. I don't know what the hell you're trying to do, but it seems very mafia-ish to me.
As embarassing as it might be, for some reason I was missing that you started out with the earth orb (just because of my lack of reading skills). I don't really know why, but I thought when talking about tier II spells you were talking in general.
because you and I know what the earth mana do and its effectiveness, I would have hoped to use it on crafters last night hence somewhat feel jarrema's death "should" have been prevented if things went correctly.
out-of-game it's also my fault for 1/2 the time reading and posting from my phone and 1/2 the time not. You can probably tell which posts are which
this is what I meant by if like a non-choxorn composed scum team are potentially trying to frame choxorn (i.e. "well Jarrema died, how come choxorn didn't!")
anyways ugh, guess we should dig through the thread and sort out evisceration (sp) and orb breakage and find a coherent system to it, since some orbs get destroyed, some keep souls, etc
because I totally could see things about extraction of souls from mana breaking them for some evil sinister plot or whatever (IIRC immortals I was vampires that ate people, so extracting dead souls seems like a way for this to be implemented into a STR based system)
wait
maybe I know how to protect ourselves from their evil verbal spells
maybe if I just cover my ears
"LALALALAALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU EVIL MAGES OUT THERE, YOUR CHANTS DO NOTHING"
Every person spaceman98 has used his second-tier Water spell on has died or had their mana destroyed.
Yesterday he said he had used it on choxorn's Earth mana, the one he was voted. That mana was destroyed. The revelation that it contained Darth Feather's soul was made only after chox revealed it to the thread already.
Today he says that Jarrema's raw mana, that became fire mana, had the soul of a player in it, but Jarrema died before this could be confirmed.
Theory: spaceman is not in fact using Water II, he only wants to give the impression that he is.
I had to go back and look at a few things given his weird vote for me today, and that's what jumps out. Why'd he just show his water orbs to the thread, as well? What does that prove?
Also I had some questions to answer:
- the 'spaceman is def. innocent' thing probably does look scummy now but it was more a case of me being wrong, BL's explanation from earlier was correct
- revealing information about mana in thread still strikes me as a terribly bad idea and I'm not going to do it, but I will say that I don't understand where this idea that mana can be 'used up' in eviscerations came from, e.g BL's suggestion that that's where my mana went, because all the eviscerations so far have destroyed a town mana, but one scum mana for one town is no trade, so why would scum do it? Who first came up with this idea?
- today's Kennigit vote was not to do with the previous vote on KingMorgan, it was because up until now he's just talked about mana and voted for choxorn without any major contribution to the scumfinding effort. I think that's clear from the text of the post as well...
My theory of eviscerations stemmed from these things:
1) Ability to continue to communicate despite being dead. The souls are trapped in orbs they possessed at the time (I think). We saw this with both Darth Feather and Jarrema in two separate instances. Darth Feather was killed in body, then eviscerated later, the later action resulting in his orb being destroyed. Jarrema was eviscerated while still alive, and the writeup indicates the Orb he was holding (his own fire orb I think) shattered in his hands, then his body died and the result was he was eviscerated. Darth Feather during that 'in between' time could still talk with choxorn. Once eviscerated, then he couldn't. Seems to hold true for Jarrema as well.
2) The eviscerations started after chox and spaceman got the orbs voted to them. So, I connected that to the eviscerations, speculating since permanently removing a player from the game like that would have to come at a cost. We didn't see it early, so the cost could be one of two things - a time delay of some sort, or the orbs being destroyed in the process, or sacrificed, or whatever. Removing someone entirely from play would be pretty powerful - you have a confirmed innocent still talking, albeit to one person. The theory is/was entirely my idea and speculation. I don't think it was a time delay - nothing until mornings four and five. Some condition was met for the eviscerations to start.
3) I'm just curious mostly how you came to 'give up' one or both of your manas. I don't particularly care where it went to be honest - I wouldn't expect you to reveal that whether you are town or scum. My guess who would be BSmith (maybe choxorn), but that's just me. The timing would suggest you gave it to whoever after Sprig's rule change. You were scanned by Winston Night 2 (Kennigit scanned Night 3) and before the rule change as having two manas. After that, you claim you not have two. There's the rule change, your quantity of manas changing, then the eviscerations starting. That's odd also.
4) Re Kennigit: The content of your post wasn't clear to me. Just seemed odd the basis of the first post linking the two together was distancing by Kennigit, then when KM flipped innocent you went, 'yeah I was wrong, but I'm still going to this well anyway.'
New theory: You don't want mana stuff in the thread because it would give the innocents more info to work with. Plus, then you would be forced to reveal where those mana(s) went and now what they are being used for. After all, if you gave the mana away to someone, I would expect you to know what those results are, as you wouldn't do this for 'free.' But how would you know what those results are? You don't want anything in the thread, but you'd have to have someway of knowing, right? You kind of dodged the 'what happened to my mana and how it came to be' bit. This needs an answer.
Every person spaceman98 has used his second-tier Water spell on has died or had their mana destroyed.
Yesterday he said he had used it on choxorn's Earth mana, the one he was voted. That mana was destroyed. The revelation that it contained Darth Feather's soul was made only after chox revealed it to the thread already.
Today he says that Jarrema's raw mana, that became fire mana, had the soul of a player in it, but Jarrema died before this could be confirmed.
Theory: spaceman is not in fact using Water II, he only wants to give the impression that he is.
I had to go back and look at a few things given his weird vote for me today, and that's what jumps out. Why'd he just show his water orbs to the thread, as well? What does that prove?
Also I had some questions to answer:
- the 'spaceman is def. innocent' thing probably does look scummy now but it was more a case of me being wrong, BL's explanation from earlier was correct
- revealing information about mana in thread still strikes me as a terribly bad idea and I'm not going to do it, but I will say that I don't understand where this idea that mana can be 'used up' in eviscerations came from, e.g BL's suggestion that that's where my mana went, because all the eviscerations so far have destroyed a town mana, but one scum mana for one town is no trade, so why would scum do it? Who first came up with this idea?
- today's Kennigit vote was not to do with the previous vote on KingMorgan, it was because up until now he's just talked about mana and voted for choxorn without any major contribution to the scumfinding effort. I think that's clear from the text of the post as well...
If this were the case, why would I openly say "I used my spell on X and got result Y"? No one knew that I had that spell, and I was under no pressure to reveal what I was doing with my water manas, so if I were scum, I wouldn't do something that so overtly reveals myself and places myself under potential suspicion.
I revealed the water manas so that everyone can see that I still have them, that they weren't used up for some nefarious purpose, as various people seem to believe.
___________________________________
Here, as I can see it are various cases:
Against BL:
He has gone after active townie players in thread. Pizzaguy and Zack were killed on nights 1 and 2. Given that neither had done anything to distinguish themselves (and Pizza was a total lurker) these choices only make sense from a metagame perspective. Possibly, these choices were made with the intent of killing active people who had knowledge about BL's behavior as mafia. On the other hand, as BL's rebuttal illustrates, the "this is how you always act as mafia" argument is dubious.
Against Choxorn:
Despite clearly being present, hasn't said anything too revolutionary until today. BL has been making far more new cases, whereas choxorn has remained largely "hidden in plain sight", at least until now, when he accused BL. For example, yesterday he made very few posts, and all of those were either responses to my posts (followed me on voting for KM) or requests for mana, or responses to Kennigit's unfounded accusations.
Incidentally, choxorn also knows Pizza and Zack well enough that he might go after them for metagame reasons.
At the same time, I can confirm that choxorn really did use the Earth 2 spell, so his story checks out (though this confirmation is based off of illicitly exchanged PMs).
Against Catharsis: The only one so far whose manas are unaccounted for. How he received them, and how he lost them remain mysterious questions to which he has been very reluctant to give an answer. He was the first to admit that he HAD lost them, but that could just be because if he didn't say that, people would ask him to show them.
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My gut still tells me that BL is scum, but BLs reasoning makes more sense. His behavior fits either that of a townie, or of AskthePizzaguy.
I will unvote: vote: Choxorn simply because BL has been much more active, doing things that were very risky from the start of the game (such as removing suspicion from Catharsis earlier today, and such as making the new case on Catharsis now). Choxorn has avoided making waves, and most of his posts seconded the cases of others.
That's not to say that BL cannot be mafia. A very determined, askthepizzaguy-esq Mafiosi can absolutely do what he has been doing, and because derps like me expect the mafia to stay out of sight, he could get away with it. At the same time, Pizza almost always gets lynched when he tries this strategy, so I think that caution as a scumtell is still valid.
Also fos: Catharsis. Answer where those orbs went, or I may vote for you instead.
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). You said nope! 
So I didn't count it from your definition. Game setup wasn't standard by any stretch.
