NOTW LII - The Immortals II [Game Thread - Concluded]

[Kennigit]

Giving mana away needed to be done.

Just as how choxorn and I won't give each other earth mana because choxorn is scared to give it to me and I'm scared to give it to him. And that's why I'm never going to give it to him.

also after the post when choxorn said he did get to use the spell I could have bet my orb he would have used it on spaceman; who else would he use it on? Some random? Me with the other earth orb?

If we're close to lynch or lose, at least catharsis lynch won't lose a spell we can use

 

[Kennigit]

two random metagamey notes:

--it's possible that a bus could happen today if there are 3 scum remaining. Heck scum probably know what mana they need and such

I'll take all the mana though, just because

I'm guessing autolycus is fire (iirc takhisis was water) but he's not really active enough to warrant giving to him, same with bsmith and his air

Plus one of the two of them is going to be scum, I'm really thinking either a spaceman/

it is interesting that catharsis didn't bend to vote choxorn though in this scenario. He knows it wouldn't be too difficult to convince me to vote choxorn, and I think BL still is on BL. instead he goes for spaceman.

man, I'm getting duped this game. Things would have been a lot easier if I just had the earth mana, but that'll never happen

 

[Kennigit]

whoops forgot to finish my post before posting

"Plus one of the two of them is going to be scum, either as a pair or certainly if there is a group of 3; I'm thinking a spaceman/(one of auto + bsmith) or a catharsis/(one of auto + bsmith) though"

I think BL is town, that's the risk I'd take.

 

[BSmith1068]

Catharsis gave me an air mana, so I can confirm that part of his story. Air II allows me to set up a private communications link with another player. I did this with choxorn last night, as he can confirm (and why he is supporting me for the air mana up for vote today.) Air III lets me set up another link with either a living or a dead player. I was hoping to make some good back channel networks, but it took me forever to get my second air mana.

Of all the choices today I think that I am going to go with BackwardsLogic. The case on him seems the most compelling. I don't think choxorn or catharsis are scum. Jury is out on spaceman.

 

[Kennigit]

two random metagamey notes:

--it's possible that a bus could happen today if there are 3 scum remaining. Heck scum probably know what mana they need and such, and could shuffle around items internally. Or maybe even specify to have mana break or something in the event of their death, I dunno. There can be a tradeoff of the STR victory condition and cracking open mana with souls inside of them.
--super metagamey on this one, but both catharsis and spaceman have, to varying degrees, been jumping on me about my anti-choxorn relations. Say catharsis is mafia and knows choxorn isn't mafia--he can easily say "Kennigit, you are making a case against KM, why aren't you voting for him?". It can push a KM lynch without him having to make a case or seem like it was his idea at all.

It's a fine line though between just being townie and doing that and being scum and doing that though. But I think the future is to get better at reading things like that. Heck, somewhat recently in the LOTR game takhisis, as sauron, got fished out by me just lying around saying I scanned someone as scum. I got lynched for that, etc, but literally a bad guy did just follow the easy bait. Scum will follow the easy bait of pointing out bad townie logic and following really good townie logic, so townie's need to learn to falsely present good townie logic.

I'll take all the mana though, just because

I'm guessing autolycus is fire (iirc takhisis was water) but he's not really active enough to warrant giving to him, same with bsmith and his air

"Plus one of the two of them is going to be scum, either as a pair or certainly if there is a group of 3; I'm thinking a spaceman/(one of auto + bsmith) or a catharsis/(one of auto + bsmith) though"

I think BL is town, that's the risk I'd take.

it is interesting that catharsis didn't bend to vote choxorn though in this scenario. He knows it wouldn't be too difficult to convince me to vote choxorn, and I think BL still is on BL. instead he goes for spaceman.

man, I'm getting duped this game. Things would have been a lot easier if I just had the earth mana, but that'll never happen

corrected I think without editing (I actually don't know if no editing, but I had mana vote and generally aren't supposed to edit posts with votes).

 

[Backwards Logic]

Catharsis gave me an air mana, so I can confirm that part of his story. Air II allows me to set up a private communications link with another player. I did this with choxorn last night, as he can confirm (and why he is supporting me for the air mana up for vote today.) Air III lets me set up another link with either a living or a dead player. I was hoping to make some good back channel networks, but it took me forever to get my second air mana.

Of all the choices today I think that I am going to go with BackwardsLogic. The case on him seems the most compelling. I don't think choxorn or catharsis are scum. Jury is out on spaceman.

It's interesting Catharsis would give away the ability to chat with someone, and then you not setup comms with him. Why didn't you? Why choxorn? Why don't you think either is scum? Now that this info is out, it is a very low-risk move of Catharsis as scum to hand you the ability to talk with someone else. It's not like it's an ability that can be used against him or one of his scum-buddies. So I still can't see why he'd do it as town, and definitely can see it as scum.

And please go into details while my case is compelling. What is about it?

 

[Kennigit]

So catharsis gave you something and you go to choxorn?

And here I thought there was a general friendliness that if you gave something to someone, they'd return the courtesy right back

 

[choxorn]

Catharsis gave me an air mana, so I can confirm that part of his story. Air II allows me to set up a private communications link with another player. I did this with choxorn last night, as he can confirm (and why he is supporting me for the air mana up for vote today.) Air III lets me set up another link with either a living or a dead player. I was hoping to make some good back channel networks, but it took me forever to get my second air mana.

Of all the choices today I think that I am going to go with BackwardsLogic. The case on him seems the most compelling. I don't think choxorn or catharsis are scum. Jury is out on spaceman.

I can confirm that BSmith did target me with the Air II spell last night, and it does exactly this.

Also, Backwards, you asked me who else I used the Earth II spell on- I believe I mentioned more than once that there was only one night I could have used it.

 

[Kennigit]

whelp 2 hours to lynch

 

[choxorn]

I believe this is the current tally:

Backwards Logic: 2 (choxorn, BSmith1068)
Catharsis: 2 (spaceman98, Kennigit)
spaceman98: 1 (Catharsis)
choxorn: 1 (Backwards Logic)

Not Voting: Autolycus

 

[Kennigit]

why do people keep talking about how X person would kill as a mafia when there is this little concept called a mafia team that exists?

are you going to stick on BL for that?

 

[Backwards Logic]

choxorn. Not going to lynch my first suspect, so I'll add onto my second choice. Catharsis.

 

[Kennigit]

i can switch to choxorn vote if need be (we may have to), as there is definitely a strong possibility for a trio and he could be involved; I still think (and hope) it is a duo, as I'm having a hard time piecing together a trio. Trying to read the thread now.

Catharsis/choxorn/bsmith have never had to butt heads with each other. Both choxorn and catharsis have had relations around spaceman. Choxorn accusing him then voting to give him mana, catharsis with the day 2 stuff and of course today. Choxorn evidently used earth II on spaceman.

Now, if choxorn was scum he could be free to use earth spell on whoever he wanted. Especially if catharsis knew fire II and air II spells. IIRC water spell was said to confirm mana type (I searched thread, I don't immediately see post of water spell reveal)? Not anything that would pose a threat to the scum. A scum with earth wouldn't have to protect his teammates.

In fact, if scum started with knowledge of the orb spells, only the earth spell is threatening to them, and choxorn got the shake on the earth.

Catharsis swung for spaceman as pressure was put on him. Maybe that's right, maybe that's wrong. Or maybe he avoided swinging for choxorn.

a trio of them would also allow for a lie about air mana, as no one alive seems to confirm air mana spell. They can easily lie about private communication with a quicktopic.

 

[Kennigit]

I think if a trio exists and it's lylo we have to go choxorn

if a duo exists it could still be lylo if the orbs add up (because STR victory condition)

in fact, if we think choxorn is possibly a scum at all we have to go for him. I cannot stress this enough.

choxorn, we cannot private communicate but do you think there is a duo or a trio? Would BL's partner just casually sit by, munching on WAFERs, and let BL go for super metagamey kills?

 

[choxorn]

Two bad guys seems a bit low for a game this size, but there's always the possibility that there's more than one bad guy team out there, or maybe a serial killer or a neutral faction or something.

But, then again, there's a lot of not-normal things about this game and I really have no idea what to think of the setup. Maybe there's two, maybe there's three, maybe there's two and something else we haven't even been looking for. I really have no idea.

And you've been acting so off-the-walls nuts this entire game that it's been really hard for me to put together anything about you, or even who any of the scum could be. I don't think you are, but you certainly could be. You and spaceman have both known what I could do for a while and not killed me, but there's also the fact that stuff happened to Darth Feather's orb. Catharsis? Sure, he could be, but a while back I got so good at telling he was mafia that he adopted a practice of N1 metagame killing me. But that was a while ago, he certainly could have changed by now. Autolycus could easily be a lurker-scum, he lurks a lot as a scum. BSmith? Sure, even if he can privately communicate with me that doesn't make him town.

The only thing I'm sure of is that I have a very bad feeling about Backwards Logic and think he should be lynched.

But what do I know. Like I said, I can't get any sort of feel on what the game setup is. Hell, it's possible this whole game is a troll setup with some random crap going on and sprig is just screwing with us.

 

[Kennigit]

You keep saying I've been nuts but I really don't think so. Wrong, sure.

But literally I've spent the entire game talking about earth mana and mana in general. No more nuts that trying to drag up "Mafia ESP"

 

[Catharsis]

I'll need to switch my vote as well. spaceman98 Backwards Logic

I'm not the right lynch. It will need to be BL.

 

[Kennigit]

actually winston used raw mana to scan iirc him saying so there are some other types of wielding out there that autolycus can be

waters and raws popped up in people's deaths more often iirc.

 

[Backwards Logic]

Spaceman posted the Water II allows him to scan Orbs to see if they hold the souls of players.

At this point, here's my list of possible trios and players with their possible connections to other players. I don't include myself, I'm innocent, though if someone wants to do their own by all means go for it.

Catharsis/BSmith/choxorn

Why it works: At this stage of the game, neither seem inclined to accuse each other preferring me or spaceman. We have the interesting back and forth of Catharsis and BSmith with the Air Mana, then the comm link now with choxorn, all of which cannot be verified. All seem to have the same mentality when it comes to sharing info in the thread, BSmith excluded.

Why it doesn't: My theory of the scum not starting with two of one type of mana would shaft the Catharsis/BSmith link (wouldn't need to do the mana transfer at all, they got a QT). BSmith also voted Catharsis as vote three early on day two. Could have been genuine, but also could have been distancing. Both votes that day put for a time being a fair amount of pressure on both, and ended with Darth Feather's lynch. Plus BSmith as scum would have way more value keeping the fire orb over the air orb (assuming the air orb of course does what he says it does, though I am inclined to believe him). I can't see him doing a swap just so he could talk to other alive folks privately or dead people.

Catharsis/choxorn/Auto: (probably most likely)

Auto has only ever voted spaceman, and with Catharsis and chox at one point or another also voting spaceman could mean there's a link, be it a weak one, between these three. Catharsis and choxorn still linked with vote patterns though.

Spaceman + ...?

I can't see Catharsis bussing spaceman at this point if they're both scum. Ditto choxorn, plus the votes on day 2 putting spaceman in a tie with Catharsis. Plus while choxorn put spaceman in a tie with Catharsis on day two, he also pulled off of him onto Darth Caesar. If they were both scum, this would have been highly elaborate and unnecessary distancing. So who else does that leave?

Kennigit? Post 140 and the ensuing conversation seems very genuine - spaceman had no idea what Kennigit said and called him on it. So again, highly elaborate if it was theatre. And that's the only thing I can really find. So these two in cahoots is doubtful.

Autolycus? Only thing we have is his two votes against him on days one and two. I don't recall Auto ever doing that kind of hard-core distancing in the past. Not seeing it, but this could go either way.

BSmith? Only real possibility here, but spaceman accused BSmith in such a way to bring him close to the vote lead on Day 2. That's either some serious hardcore busing/distancing on day 2, or these guys aren't connected as scum. They're out.

Kennigit + ...?

Choxorn? Nope. Been going back and forth the whole game on the Earth Mana, plus accusations.

Catharsis? Doubtful. Catharsis linking KM with him during yesterday's vote seems to remove this possibility.

Spaceman? Above.

Auto? No idea.

BSmith? Maybe at best. No obvious link I can find, plus in general the above with the orb swap.

Doesn't leave anyone else. So I'm not seeing him as a possibility.

So in conclusion, I got Catharsis/choxorn as a pair. I'm not seeing any other links to them, as Kennigit, spaceman, myself and Auto are either definite nopes or are inconclusive. Lynching choxorn removes the orbs from his possession, whereas lynching Catharsis would theoretically remove only one. Spaceman would not only have to be online to switch, but also agree with my reasoning also. I say leave it for now, both are equally likely to be scum in my book.

All Orbs to Kennigit.

 

[Sprig]

Evening Five​

Perhaps the fact there were more vacant seats in the council than populated ones hit home the reality that the council faced. T was an animated day with a lot of heated discussion. All except one, who was acting as though mute. The others ignored the adorable one for now. At the end of the day it was down to the Tenacious Thaumataurge and the Narcissistic Necromancer. This meant it was a one way fight in the end. Once the arguing hit the crescendo the Thaumaturge’s healing spells were no match for the damage inflicted on her by the Necromancer.

Spoiler :

^{Catharsis the Tenatious Thaumataurge was a Dark Mage}

The Council Members gave out a large cheer, well not so large as there was only 6 of them left but it certainly was a heartfelt one. There were magical slaps on the back all round which were then rudely interrupted by a apparition of the Dark Mage Sprig.

“So you killed one of my servants!” The Apparition said with mock applause. “Such a shame that it doesn’t affect me in the slightest. I already have most of your souls and the rest will be mine soon!”

The remaining council members looked at each other. They were confused and trying to make sense of what this might mean. Some suggest perhaps there was another servant, another suggested it was something else that they were missing, maybe some information that might complete the puzzle of what they were facing. A third suggested it was both. Either way, the joy they had felt had died down. They felt like they were standing on a knife edge once more. The Majestic Magus collected the Air Mana Orb while the Illustrious Illusionist collects the Fire Mana and Raw Mana Orbs and they retired along with the remaining council member to their rooms for the night.

~~~

It is now Night
Dawn Breaks in: [timer=04/14/2014 7:00 PM +12:00; Night has finished][/timer] at 14 Apr 2014 7:00 pm (+12:00)




Tally:
Accusation
Backwards Logic (choxorn; BSmith1068; Catharsis; )
Catharsis (spaceman98; Kennigit; Backwards Logic; )

Raw Mana Orb
spaceman98 (spaceman98; )
Kennigit (Kennigit; Backwards Logic )

Fire Mana Orb
Kennigit (Kennigit; Backwards Logic )

Air Mana Orb
BSmith1068 (BSmith1068; Choxorn)
Kennigit (Kennigit; Backwards Logic )