NOTW XXXIX: Impending Retribution Game Thread

[Earthling]

I didn't say what you're claiming I said, Zack.

Furthermore, for like the 10th time, nothing at all excuses letting Camikaze get brigged as a mistake, because again, public votes in the thread can be counted, you know. If you'd just voted for CCRunner or anything else than what you did, you probably wouldn't have even been in a position to be in trouble for the first place.

But I won't go fishing through the Rogue QT for quotes to make fun of here, incorrectly at that, ok Zack

edit - this was clearly an xpost

 

[Takhisis]

Why do you have to have the last word? It's obvious neither of you will agree on this. Give over, huh?

 

[Backwards Logic]

Earthling, please stop taking indirect shots at Zack because of some wrong assumptions he made. You'd probably prefer I not go through the thread and point out every inaccuracy you had during the game. While you made some strong points, you made roughly an equal amount of false assumptions also.

Like I said, no one is infallible, and everyone stop this line of discussion. Back to actual postgame commentary please.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was awesome because I said scum would be hiding among the repair people, and there were a bunch, and I was also awesome because I said we shouldn't lynch Diamondeye, and I was promptly vigged for my thinking differently from the masses. I was also a giant pile of blunder as I claimed neutral for no reason and I also trusted choxorn randomly, which was bad in a game with so many scumbags.

Hindsight is full of "I told you so" and it's also full of "ooops....."

If I went over all of my awesomeness in games and ignored all the negatives, I could probably walk around with this song playing; And if I went over all of my epic fail in games and ignored all the positives, I could probably walk around with this song playing.

 

[Takhisis]

Back to game commentary, I'm amazed that CCRunner survived for as long as he did.

I love this role got totally butchered in the thread with claims it could do things it couldn’t! The Pilot couldn’t actually fly anyone off the ship like was suggested so many times. He could only train player to fly, and even then he had a limited pool of players he could train. The vast majority of the players were incapable of being trained (they could try, but nothing would have happened) and those that were ultimately had some degree of anti-innocent agenda. johnhughthom’s role was the least problematic, but involved taking the powerful Ship’s Blueprints item off the ship. Duke Blackstone could also be trained, but wanted to take his mason brother classical_hero with him, thus reducing a strong innocent pair. The worst was civplayah, who could do varying degrees of damage depending on the status of the Aegis Weapons System. Takhisis never trained anyone during the course of the game and to my chagrin I never got to write an Apache-centric update.

Yes, I never trusted civplayah because he only asked once (shame on him, I got so fed up with the no-Actions that I might have caved in if he pressed forward&#8230 and he was the only one that didn't ask to fly off the ship which is what my PM mentioned… he directly wanted to climb on it and start shooting people off.

Here’s the whole fricken’ reason that Sonar never got repaired. The role going inactive pissed me off to no end, as the innocents would now never get the vital anti-saboteur gear online. Had TLO gotten the gear up and running, all mine hits at night would have been stopped assuming he was alive to watch the screens, and half of the mines during the day phases would have been prevented. The Sonar not being online is the main reason the saboteurs came even remotely close to sinking the ship. I have to admit I was shocked the innocents voted the short route after simple math deduced the Rogues couldn’t win given the lack of kills up to that point. Two thirds of the crew was still alive! Two extra days would have made no difference! Especially with Sonar offline for that long, it baffled me the innocents still went that route. As it was the Rogues got stomped shortly thereafter, but the damage was done. All and all, a very aggravating scenario I could do nothing about.

Yes, I made a bad call on the vote for the short route (I don't recall a middle route being put up for vote, but then I was away IRL a couple times). But I was expecting the kills to ramp up and the town to start vigging away. Also we couldn't have foreseen the total disablement of the SONAR device by TLO's Inactivity. If he'd been active we could have taken out the scum much quicker, I think.

What would have happened if we reached safe harbour with some Saboteurs still alive and on the ship?

 

[Takhisis]

I'm also amazed at my own survival given how much of a paranoid scumster I must have looked like, I never answered a question straight until there were only a handful of us still alive.

And Seon went hilariously insane when interrogating me…

 

[Backwards Logic]

What would have happened if we reached safe harbour with some Saboteurs still alive and on the ship?

During Command's debriefing of everyone, Command would have pieced together inconsistencies in the saboteur's stories. With the other innocents confirming sailors were deliberately trying to sink the ship, Command would have figured out who was who, then imprisoned for life or executed the saboteurs. It's the in-game reason the saboteurs got a kill after the Rogues were all gone - they 'knew' if the ship reached port they were screwed. Killing off those that could testify against them was the next 'step' for them. They in a sense, became the new Rogues.

I'm also amazed at my own survival given how much of a paranoid scumster I must have looked like, I never answered a question straight until there were only a handful of us still alive.

Yea . I thought to myself on more than one occasion 'Wow, he plays a scummy townie!"

 

[Takhisis]

During Command's debriefing of everyone, Command would have pieced together inconsistencies in the saboteur's stories. With the other innocents confirming sailors were deliberately trying to sink the ship, Command would have figured out who was who, then imprisoned for life or executed the saboteurs. It's the in-game reason the saboteurs got a kill after the Rogues were all gone - they 'knew' if the ship reached port they were screwed. Killing off those that could testify against them was the next 'step' for them. They in a sense, became the new Rogues.

So by shortening the journey they brought the date of their impending executions two days forward, gave them less time to place explosives and/or take over the helicopter.

Yea . I thought to myself on more than one occasion 'Wow, he plays a scummy townie!"

Yes, it was even pointed out in-thread. I'm ALWAYS scummy.

 

[Backwards Logic]

So by shortening the journey they brought the date of their impending executions two days forward, gave them less time to place explosives and/or take over the helicopter.

Partially true - it was one day sooner, but they would have been in the minefield for the next three days to make up for the fact they were now a day short. Even if Sonar was online, the net result would still be a more damaged ship than had they gone the long way as they weren't getting the free mine hits. Plus the mines had a 1 in 2 chance to hit something vital (Engines, Electrical, or Pump), which further helped their cause.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Brilliant game, BL. The best NotW in a long time, and possibly the most enjoyable role I've ever played.

The hunt for my parents' killer forced me to approach loads of people with the bizarre request to look at a photograph and tell me what they saw, which sparked off some wonderfully silly conversations (particular highlights being those with my brothers in innocent evil, Methos and Seon).

Sadly, after a couple of unfortunate promotions and the necessity of revealing a prophet result in public, I was pretty sure my days were numbered, so I went fishing, spamming out inquiring messages to anyone about whom I knew very little, offering to reveal info in exchange. Thankfully, Camikaze took the bait, claimed vanilla, and asked a couple of suspiciously innocuous questions, raising him to the top of my suspect list just in time to tell Renata before I died.

A minor contribution, of course, but it's nice to know that I played a part in my killer's demise. It almost makes up for the fact that my parents' killer ended up as Captain.

 

[Renata]

I was awesome because I said scum would be hiding among the repair people, and there were a bunch, and I was also awesome because I said we shouldn't lynch Diamondeye, and I was promptly vigged for my thinking differently from the masses. I was also a giant pile of blunder as I claimed neutral for no reason and I also trusted choxorn randomly, which was bad in a game with so many scumbags.

I really should have given more significance to the discrepancy between your own descriptions of what you were trying to pull off with choxorn and what people said about choxorn after he got hit by the claymore. Or rather, what people didn't say -- there was absolutely not the slightest indication that choxorn had been going around claiming a strong role in the hopes of drawing negative attention that could be traced back to its perpetrator -- like you said he had agreed to do.

I did ask him about it all later, and again his description of your collaboration differed markedly from what you'd said yourself about it, but by that point I had three or four big suspects that needed dealing with before I could think too much about choxorn. I did think to walk him into the electrical room claymore as a means of control (before I got the flak jacket myself and figured dependable repair was preferable), but ultimately only requested repair from him, not knowing that he had the capability to carry out different actions in different places (hence, I'd just handed him an alibi). That could have been a BAD situation for the innocents, and I'm glad it ultimately wasn't.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

I still believe the tactic I was attempting was worthwhile, I just got shafted by early death so I couldn't follow up on it.

Or perform basically any actions, thanks to the party people. Would have been nice to examine a dead scumbag, or heal.... anyone.

 

[Renata]

The short route sure does look stupid, doesn't it? In our defense, at the point the decision was made, the saboteurs were well in hand and not making much headway. The rogues were showing no inclination toward bumping off the repair people (three of whom by that point were known to me to be innocent.) Adding damage pressure might have kept me, Nictel and CH alive even a little longer, which could be useful.

Plus, we were (seemingly) getting nowhere at all in finding the bad guys. It seemed it might well be possible to keep the saboteurs sufficiently far from victory that the shorter route would be worth the sure-to-be-heavy damage. When I did the math it sure seemed that the longer route not at all certain to get us there ahead of a rogue victory, though I fully admit I might messed up my division somewhere.

 

[Frozen In Ice]

Great game Backwards Logic! One of the best ones I played in a long time. Also one of the most complex NotW, and by far the largest. I'm glad I finally got Choxorn, but I was so wrong about Takhisis. Had I still been alive on the last day I was going to target him for the lynch instead of Civplayah.

And on CCRunner, something ticked me off to his scummines the first time I talked to him. We were neogotiating my giving him the decryption key when I somehow got him to mention that Nictel had the same ability. Right then and there alarms were going off in my head that one of them wasn't innocent, and I told CCRunner that the deal was off. Then he offered the Assault Rifle in exchange, just like you thought he would, and I caved. One on hand he was my most expected player the whole game, yet I kept swepping my suspicions of him under the rug because I didn't want to admit that I'd made such a bad call.

Also I'm still surprised that Robbiecon was innocent and that I seemed to be the one one that went into panic mode when the ship was going towards insurgent waters.

Overall though, good game everyone.

 

[rhawn]

Thanks for hosting. Wish you had been a little more positive in your writeups. Ah scratch that, I must have been in a bad mood when I read that, commentaries seem fair. Big thanks to Daveshack and BSmith who were great allies.

 

[BSmith1068]

This was a great game. Obviously a lot of work went into the game design, and the execution was superb as well.

Being fairly new to the Mafia/NOTW games I am still learning a lot about how to play these games effectively and the finer points of strategy. I am quite happy to have survived to the end, and to have contributed to the awesome play rhawn made in getting Zack to attack him.

I decided early on that I needed to take a leap of faith and trust some people with my ability, so that when the time came I would be believed. This naturally had to be balanced with staying in the background so that I wouldn’t become a target to the Rogues. I told rhawn about my ability in response to him giving me (now known to be a half-truth) some info about himself after I pressured him about his weapon. This lead to him claiming my ability as his own both to protect me, but also to set the trap that worked so beautifully against Zack. It still boggles my mind that we got all four Rogues within one full game cycle.

I have two disappointments however. First was the scan result for Darth Caesar. In retrospect his result was the vaguest of my positive scan results (but also the first, so I had nothing to compare it to). I should have been a little more patient before sounding the alarm, but his complete lack of defense didn’t bode well for him either.

My second disappointment was a lingering suspicion by some that I was not innocent. This mainly came from my less than reliable scan results, but even after being scanned I was still being listed as a suspect. Reading the dead QT Earthling still suspected me for a while even after his death. This lack of trust by some led me to be out of the loop on a lot of the innocent discussions and strategy that was going on behind the scenes until much later in the game. It also meant that I didn’t have a good view on who had been cleared and who might still be suspect until much later as well.

Regarding Methos: It was a group decision that I should kill him with my newly available rank ability. Just like with CCrunner, there had been a lot of suspicion on him that never quite got resolved, and DaveShack claimed that he was more than a simple diplomat that evening as well. He had hinted that lynching him wouldn’t work, so the night kill was the best option. At that point we only had one more saboteur left, and I felt pretty certain it was civplayah, who we could lynch. Methos was almost non-existent in the thread at this point as well, and it didn’t seem that he was trying all that hard to help win the game for the innocents.

I am curious why DaveShack’s info was wrong though, but didn’t have enough time (RL was crazy this past week) to delve into that. I did have reservations about him still and never quite trusted him fully.

Anyway, overall quite a fun game!

 

[civplayah]

Good game, everyone!!! This was fun.

 

[DaveShack]

The scan result I got for Methos matched his role description, but the reveal on death did not show the details. I think BL said this was put in on purpose to generate a little uncertainty about my scan to avoid an innocent cakewalk if we got lucky early.

I could have said we needed to brig Methos to fulfill my PG, but I was still concerned there could be another scum hiding among the innocent's inner circle. That reticence probably made me look a little suspicious.

Also I doubted myself a bit, because many of the scan results sounded wishy-washy (most likely, probably, is likely to be, etc), also on purpose I'm sure.

 

[Methos]

When the game started I was both extremely excited about my role and nervous as heck. I took the fact that my death, or lack of using my ability, meant that I was like a insta-win for the saboteurs. Due to this belief, I realized I needed an ally and one that would work with me fully. After talking to Renata I felt fairly confident that she was innocent, so I asked her if she wanted to know something. I'm at work, so I don't have the log with me, but I basically said this was something big and it was her decision on whether she wanted to know it or not. She said yes and after telling her, I got a bunch of *headdesk* comments afterwards. I pretty much told her everything and let her plot. It was a blast.

I believe it was on February 22nd when my wife had some complications with her current pregnancy. At this point she was put on bed rest and I basically dropped off the grid. Note: she's fine now and just last Thursday she got off bed rest and was able to go back to work, but has to take things slowly and carefully. When I tried to get back into the game it was after Renata had been killed and the whole debacle with Earthling happened. I mean no offense Earthling, but your actions at this point caused me to lose any desire to continue playing. Whether you meant to or not, I felt like it was personal, rather then just a game. I typically kept sending in my orders, but I just didn't care anymore. What I also find interesting is that you have yet to admit you were wrong about me.

The game was great and I really wish I could have participated more.

 

[CCRunner]

choxorn and CCRunner non-innocents? I never stood a chance of surviving this.

If I had a kill, you'd have been targeted as soon as you replied to my first PM to you when I figured out we were the same person

I believe I complained about it quite vocally to BL

the whole debacle with Earthling happened. I mean no offense Earthling, but your actions at this point caused me to lose any desire to continue playing. Whether you meant to or not, I felt like it was personal, rather then just a game

Seconded 100%. I mean, I know I was scummy, but random personal potshots and straight up lying about what I PMed and told you was uncalled for