Duke Blackstone
John Marchman
I can fly the whoever off in the Helicopter I suppose. Tak, go ahead and train me tonight.
NOTW XXXIX: Impending Retribution Game Thread
- Thread starter Backwards Logic
- Start date
rhawn
Emperor
Where have you been?
I'm surprised no one mentioned this earlier. This is true. However robbiecon did scan positive as a killer according to my source. He has known Methos since day 2. He checks out through another scan. This is reliable.
Also Methos needed to contact someone every evening to prevent damage to the ship. It doesn't make sense to me that a saboteur would be allowed to do nothing and cause devastating damage. He has also acquired several items and passed them to repairmen. I do not believe he is a saboteur.
Renatq survived the claymore due to the flak jacket Methos loaned her. Sprig shot her in the face before Methos could vig him on our orders.
Why? Are you abandoning your crewmates?
Also today is the first I've heard of a good/neutral/evil scanner and it sounds like a load of bull hockey. First I'm not aware of my self being any alignment except innocent. Secondly it seems to serve no purpose except as a red herring since it doesn't determine the significant factions which are innocent/rogue/saboteur.
Someone contact me about this, preferrably seon, because it doesn't seem to add up.
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
Check your role pm again, rhawn.
Duke Blackstone
John Marchman
No, I am not going to have much time for this game, starting tomorrow. Thus, I am useless and you have reasons to stay.
btw, Unvote
Rhawn is correct, every single night I had to access the bridge and contact my superiors. If I didn't do it, then something bad was going to happen. All I knew at the time was that it would be very bad for both the ship and the people on it. I knew I needed to protect myself, so I went to Renata on day 1 and told her. I got a lot of *headdesk* after doing so. The only thing I could do at night was contact my superiors, unless I gave my voice recorder to someone else and had them play it while in the bridge. I never gave it to anyone and still have it.
Unfortunately the party knocked out all of our night actions, which meant I wasn't able to send my message and you all know the rest. Since then I haven't done much. I'm surprised no one picked up on that during those nights I only let people into the bridge and no other room. I kept waiting for someone to question it. Other then Renata, the only other one who knew about me at that time was Winston. I can't recall what day he was told.
So tell me, if I was a baddie, how could I do it? I had no choice but to contact my superiors every night and its obvious that I did, since the attack didn't come until after the party. I'm sure you all can remember that.
Renata contacted me about an hour before the update and stated that the other vigger wasn't able to take out sprig and she asked me to do it. Which I did. ATPG was a horrible guess on my part and I'm sure you all can understand since there's been other bad vigs. Take Kol for instance.
If I was a bad guy, then why did I spend every night keeping my superiors from attacking the ship? If I was a bad guy, then why didn't I just say screw it and let the attack happen?
Unfortunately the party knocked out all of our night actions, which meant I wasn't able to send my message and you all know the rest. Since then I haven't done much. I'm surprised no one picked up on that during those nights I only let people into the bridge and no other room. I kept waiting for someone to question it. Other then Renata, the only other one who knew about me at that time was Winston. I can't recall what day he was told.
So tell me, if I was a baddie, how could I do it? I had no choice but to contact my superiors every night and its obvious that I did, since the attack didn't come until after the party. I'm sure you all can remember that.
Renata contacted me about an hour before the update and stated that the other vigger wasn't able to take out sprig and she asked me to do it. Which I did. ATPG was a horrible guess on my part and I'm sure you all can understand since there's been other bad vigs. Take Kol for instance.
If I was a bad guy, then why did I spend every night keeping my superiors from attacking the ship? If I was a bad guy, then why didn't I just say screw it and let the attack happen?
That explains your ability and foreignness, and many other things. I'd have to say the odds are pretty low of you being a saboteur now unless you can be in two places at once and kill on the same night, which seems highly unlikely.
I find it a little odd that a foreign country would send in an airstrike because their diplomat didn't tell them anything, I guess they must really care about their diplomats and jump to conclusions easily. But, either way, I don't think we should lynch or brig you, if that would make them send more planes at us.
I don't think robbiecon is guilty either, so I'll turn my attention to another suspect. Izipo, I still remember that post you made yesterday, and I still think it's highly suspicious.
I find it a little odd that a foreign country would send in an airstrike because their diplomat didn't tell them anything, I guess they must really care about their diplomats and jump to conclusions easily. But, either way, I don't think we should lynch or brig you, if that would make them send more planes at us.
I don't think robbiecon is guilty either, so I'll turn my attention to another suspect. Izipo, I still remember that post you made yesterday, and I still think it's highly suspicious.
rhawn
Emperor
Now that you mention it. Why was Ekolite(Kol) vigged? I heard nothing about this beforehand and had information that suggested he was innocent. Why decline killing someone who scanned rogue then take a wild shot at somone without mentioning it to anyone?
robbiecon
Savoy Truffle
The rogues are all dead, and I was in the brig last night. So your scan cannot be correct.
Duke Blackstone
John Marchman
Vote: Robbiecon. Evening this out now.
For goodness' sake guys, no one is saying Methos is a saboteur. He's not, obviously there wasn't any saboteur who could just call down an airstrike. But no one ever said that he was. He's a third party, neutral-ish foreigner on his own faction most likely.
I'd also like to point out glaring inconsistencies in the above and make note of Methos' extreme underhandedness. He's a scum, he's not an Innocent with personal goal problems or anything like that. I don't know how he thought admitting to the above would clear him but it doesn't.
Firstly, the tape recorder problem. Well it turns out, according to Renata, that no, Methos didn't have to go the bridge every night. He could have left his tape recorder there on/off (whatever way it works in flavor) a loop, and the tape recorder would have taken care of things. He actually purposefully did not use the tape recorder for this to threaten Renata that he, Methos, had to be protected and remain alive. The party surprised Methos too apparently and also took away his leverage since his foreign contacts no longer care it seems, but he in no way was trying to be Innocent about that the start. And I question how we could really believe it was the case that if someone random (say a Rogue) came along and killed Methos at the start, as an Innocent, that all of the rest of us would have to face immediate consequences from that.
Secondly, once we see that Methos admits to killing askthepizzaguy we can see how scummy he was about the whole matter. Again, I'd like to point out specifically what Renata told us, which is that askthepizzaguy was pretending to be neutral or some gambit like that, which made Methos think he was a rival/threat to himself and so he killed askthepizzaguy. Not an Innocent move at all. Also ATPG might have been behind starting the whole rumor of people using "two personal abilities" but not sure on that, that only came up in passing and we'll never get that clarified as its past and gone now.
A failed vig-kill is one thing, but no Innocent would ever try to frame another Innocent using said vig-kill as evidence:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10208043&postcount=655
rhawn, I've sent you some more explanations on our vigilante problem. To be clear, Ekolite was not at all near the top of the list to be vig-killed, I would have gone for CCRunner, Seon, Paulos, had to us, and Methos (if we thought the vig-kill could get Methos) first, but I don't have the final say.
And about robbiecon - really guys, the scan just isn't a guarantee. We've had a very false scan before for no reason. I'm willing to accept our scanner may be Innocent and honest on his end, but working off of this evidence alone isn't worth it. The only way robbiecon could be a killer, again, is if he was given a bomb and used it to blow up someone, and so far nobody has confirmed that, least of all Methos, who could supposedly have just revealed where any bombs sprig/Renata/anyone else there had the whole time. Every other kill has been by somebody else and robbiecon has also been accounted for on night actions a lot of nights, not to mention locked up last night when it looks like we had 3 saboteurs or at least 2 saboteurs and a third party serial killer active. So at best, even if he is a saboteur, he could only do a little bit of damage/have another bomb around, and like I said, we should helicopter him out of here tonight. I highly doubt any saboteur would have behaved like robbiecon in this situation - giving his items back, cooperating and sharing info, etc... and anyway if he wouldn't go on the helicopter tonight we'd know we could get him tomorrow.
I'd also like to point out glaring inconsistencies in the above and make note of Methos' extreme underhandedness. He's a scum, he's not an Innocent with personal goal problems or anything like that. I don't know how he thought admitting to the above would clear him but it doesn't.
Firstly, the tape recorder problem. Well it turns out, according to Renata, that no, Methos didn't have to go the bridge every night. He could have left his tape recorder there on/off (whatever way it works in flavor) a loop, and the tape recorder would have taken care of things. He actually purposefully did not use the tape recorder for this to threaten Renata that he, Methos, had to be protected and remain alive. The party surprised Methos too apparently and also took away his leverage since his foreign contacts no longer care it seems, but he in no way was trying to be Innocent about that the start. And I question how we could really believe it was the case that if someone random (say a Rogue) came along and killed Methos at the start, as an Innocent, that all of the rest of us would have to face immediate consequences from that.
Secondly, once we see that Methos admits to killing askthepizzaguy we can see how scummy he was about the whole matter. Again, I'd like to point out specifically what Renata told us, which is that askthepizzaguy was pretending to be neutral or some gambit like that, which made Methos think he was a rival/threat to himself and so he killed askthepizzaguy. Not an Innocent move at all. Also ATPG might have been behind starting the whole rumor of people using "two personal abilities" but not sure on that, that only came up in passing and we'll never get that clarified as its past and gone now.
A failed vig-kill is one thing, but no Innocent would ever try to frame another Innocent using said vig-kill as evidence:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10208043&postcount=655
rhawn, I've sent you some more explanations on our vigilante problem. To be clear, Ekolite was not at all near the top of the list to be vig-killed, I would have gone for CCRunner, Seon, Paulos, had to us, and Methos (if we thought the vig-kill could get Methos) first, but I don't have the final say.
And about robbiecon - really guys, the scan just isn't a guarantee. We've had a very false scan before for no reason. I'm willing to accept our scanner may be Innocent and honest on his end, but working off of this evidence alone isn't worth it. The only way robbiecon could be a killer, again, is if he was given a bomb and used it to blow up someone, and so far nobody has confirmed that, least of all Methos, who could supposedly have just revealed where any bombs sprig/Renata/anyone else there had the whole time. Every other kill has been by somebody else and robbiecon has also been accounted for on night actions a lot of nights, not to mention locked up last night when it looks like we had 3 saboteurs or at least 2 saboteurs and a third party serial killer active. So at best, even if he is a saboteur, he could only do a little bit of damage/have another bomb around, and like I said, we should helicopter him out of here tonight. I highly doubt any saboteur would have behaved like robbiecon in this situation - giving his items back, cooperating and sharing info, etc... and anyway if he wouldn't go on the helicopter tonight we'd know we could get him tomorrow.
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
I say execute robbiecon first. Methos after that if necessary, but I think we need to get rid of robbiecon first.
Namely - who else could have turned the ship around in the first place? You'd need the Navigation Override card for that to work, right?
Namely - who else could have turned the ship around in the first place? You'd need the Navigation Override card for that to work, right?
I'm not at all convinced we have perfect knowledge on "how" everything went down. With repairs, the missile systems, etc... we've had other situations that foiled our expectations. For instance, Frozen in Ice claims an ability that directly from my own role I'm still convinced is impossible and shouldn't exist for an Innocent. It's far more incongruous than this Navigation business is, I could much more easily believe the scum could misdirect our systems with some conditions going right like it seems they did. CCRunner and choxorn with supposed free access all over the ship are much the same - believing some saboteur team ability to just mess with navigation isn't at all out of the realm of possibility if any of the above are legitimate. So while the Nav Card could let any of us get back on track I'm not sure the saboteurs/whoever it was (I'm not ruling out any third factions anywhere and especially not with Methos alive) couldn't have done what they did without it. Also, anyone on the ship had access to the Bridge/Nav Bridge that night.
And furthermore, all of the saboteur etc... night actions don't add up that night either. Brought it up before, we could have any sort of problems with time-delayed bombs of course, but it's worth considering. The number of attacks and damage would seem to require at least twice the numbers they should actually have, and most saboteurs were supposedly all over different places on the ship. On the other hand we know someone like CCRunner was actually on the Bridge, setting up the Reactor Override at the same time, kinda suspicious that didn't go with any saboteur damage nor navigation mess... It's less simple for me to assume that CCRunner (Innocently) and at least two other saboteurs including robbiecon were on just the Bridge that night with a "one action apiece" situation than that there is some other explanation.
And furthermore, all of the saboteur etc... night actions don't add up that night either. Brought it up before, we could have any sort of problems with time-delayed bombs of course, but it's worth considering. The number of attacks and damage would seem to require at least twice the numbers they should actually have, and most saboteurs were supposedly all over different places on the ship. On the other hand we know someone like CCRunner was actually on the Bridge, setting up the Reactor Override at the same time, kinda suspicious that didn't go with any saboteur damage nor navigation mess... It's less simple for me to assume that CCRunner (Innocently) and at least two other saboteurs including robbiecon were on just the Bridge that night with a "one action apiece" situation than that there is some other explanation.
Looking over some notes I came across a vote that might ought to be changed. The air rig I'd heard from Renata/Autolycus supposedly would grant ability to repair to somebody who can't already, thinking we should give that to Bsmith and make sure that does repairs, not aware of him having something else to do tonight. If anyone believes this isn't the case for that item we can change it.
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
robbiecon seems like the only intelligent choice, to be honest.
This is correct. I have a repair item that grants me the ability to repair items, so there are items that do so. Heck, I've given some away. I used it last night in the bridge and let auto in the bridge to repair as well.
I'm tired of arguing against Earthling's lies, so I'm not even going to bother. I wish Earthling you would spend more time on trying to find the sabo's then attacking me.
Oh believe me I've spent far more time working against the saboteurs than caring about your neutralness. Already found at least one in fact, but after four Days nobody else is willing to get rid of CCRunner anyway.
I am really tired of your lies though. You know that I know that you know you're not helping the Innocents and I honestly am.
And complete lurkers who've told us nothing about your roles - stop voting for robbiecon guys. Abstain if you must or vote someone else, I would still be quite happy with CCRunner today. But contributing to a bandwagon like that is worthless and makes you additional suspects if anything goes wrong, so if you're Innocent it's not helping.
I am really tired of your lies though. You know that I know that you know you're not helping the Innocents and I honestly am.
And complete lurkers who've told us nothing about your roles - stop voting for robbiecon guys. Abstain if you must or vote someone else, I would still be quite happy with CCRunner today. But contributing to a bandwagon like that is worthless and makes you additional suspects if anything goes wrong, so if you're Innocent it's not helping.
Frozen In Ice
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2007
- Messages
- 1,536
Izipo Upon looking back there didn't seem to be much saboteur activity the night he repaired the magazine, and it's not like the magazine is that important of a structure anyway. I have grown unconvinced of Robbie and Methos at this point.
Also Methos and Earthling can you two please stop bickering? That isn't going to help anyone.
Also Methos and Earthling can you two please stop bickering? That isn't going to help anyone.
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
Izipo is fine lynch by me.
But the darn point is that lynching Methos is the stupidest move that a town can make at this point. At this point, everyone knows that killing the foreign agent = war planes swooping in to damage this ship. And in addition, we have no reason to believe that he is actually against us. The Command seems accomodating enough to actually allow foreign nation to bombard the ship if he doesn't send a signal every night. Almost as if Command too actually knew that the foreign agent was on board.
And in addition, we have no reason believe that the scans are actually incorrect. For all I know, Darth Caesar may have killed people off game, which may have given the result that "Darth Caesar is a killer" to the interrogator. I know I would have made a pitfall trap like that.
But the darn point is that lynching Methos is the stupidest move that a town can make at this point. At this point, everyone knows that killing the foreign agent = war planes swooping in to damage this ship. And in addition, we have no reason to believe that he is actually against us. The Command seems accomodating enough to actually allow foreign nation to bombard the ship if he doesn't send a signal every night. Almost as if Command too actually knew that the foreign agent was on board.
And in addition, we have no reason believe that the scans are actually incorrect. For all I know, Darth Caesar may have killed people off game, which may have given the result that "Darth Caesar is a killer" to the interrogator. I know I would have made a pitfall trap like that.
I 'd have to agree- he seems like either a lurker scum voting the bare minimum to avoid WoG, or he's just plain inactive.
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