Obama is a joke

[I'm Cleo!]

There's "he's not the Messiah right-wingers claim people thought he was," and there's "better than Dubya." People have already forgotten how low the latter bar is. As Formaldehyde pointed out, he hasn't started a war.

His civil liberties record is bad, his economic policy is mixed (stimulus = good, and undoubtedly better than what a Republican would likely have produced; bank bailout = bad in details, and probably no different than what a Republican likely would have produced), his foreign policy is good so far (pressure on Israel is good, reaching out to the Iranian people is good), and his biggest domestic policy challenge is yet to come: healthcare.

If he can get universal healthcare implemented, he'll go down in history as a great President. Bringing the U.S. into the modern world with respect to healthcare will be a tremendous achievement. That can be his legacy, if he wants it.

Cleo

 

[Masada]

You really haven't heard anything about the improvement of the US' image abroad?

How long is that going to last? America could have elected a horse and it still would have been a marked improvement over the previous President. Other than that all he hasn't really done all that much other than ride a wave of good will. I haven't seen any substantial foriegn policy shifts as yet, and for the moment I'll reserve my judgment.

Just a few hours ago, the EU's foreign policy chief said that many heads of state called him, praising Obama's speech.

I don't give two figs about what heads of state think they don't really need to be won over some notable exceptions aside. It's their people that have to be.

The main change I expected was for the US to lay off the illegal wars for a bit and maybe tone down torture. If he pulls that off I will be very impressed, considering US history.

Basically. I don't know if that will be enough to affect a lasting change in Muslim opinion towards the United States but here's to hoping. I guess we will have to wait until the first serious terrorist attack of his administration to see how he reacts and if he can retain his rapport until then.

there's "better than Dubya." People have already forgotten how low the latter bar is.

A horse would have been an improvement... it couldn't talk.

his foreign policy is good so far (pressure on Israel is good, reaching out to the Iranian people is good)

Agreed. Positive but not yet substantive.

 

[onedreamer]

Not really.

explain in detail how is he doing worse than Bush jr in foreign politics.

 

[Miles Teg]

We aren't even past he first year and people are throwing out the words "failure" because he hasn't completed all his promises? Personally, I'm pretty much satisfied with the way he's been conducting things, with the exception of the torture issue. I don't mind the non-prosecution thing, since that's so political, but I'm not happy with continuing Bush's policies, even under public pressure

 

[JollyRoger]

explain in detail how is he doing worse than Bush jr in foreign politics.

He hasn't come close to reaching the level of world support that Bush had as of 9/12/2001.

 

[Masada]

explain in detail how is he doing worse than Bush jr in foreign politics.

Learn to read? Not really is not "he's doing worse than Bush" in common English parlance the last time I checked.

 

[Aegis]

How long is that going to last? America could have elected a horse and it still would have been a marked improvement over the previous President.

Not really. Had we elected McCain, people of the world could have thought we were simply continuing down the same path. The fact that we elected Obama is proof to a lot of people that the USA is changing direction.

Other than that all he hasn't really done all that much other than ride a wave of good will. I haven't seen any substantial foriegn policy shifts as yet, and for the moment I'll reserve my judgment.

Re-opening dialogue with Iran is not a substantial foreign policy shift? Not starting wars is not a substantial foreign policy shift?

I don't give two figs about what heads of state think they don't really need to be won over some notable exceptions aside. It's their people that have to be.

You do realize that it is the heads-of-state that the President brokers deals with, right?

If your concern is more for the people, he's winning them over as well:

U.S. President Barack Obama has boosted his country's image abroad by six points since his election in November with a 22-nation poll on Thursday showing 42 percent of people expressing a favorable view of America.

"There's this very positive Obama effect and he is contributing significantly to increasing the U.S. credibility around the world," he (Clifford Young of Ipsos Global Public Affairs, the international market research and polling company that carried out the online poll of 22,000 people) said.

Along with Turkey, six other countries posted double digit rises in favorable views toward America -- France, 13 points to 39 percent, Belgium, 12 points to 36 percent, Germany, 11 points to 31 percent, The Netherlands, 11 points to 27 percent, Canada, 10 points to 44 percent, and Spain, 10 points to 43 percent.
Only three of the 22 countries polled did not record any increase in the positive image of America -- Russia remained unchanged at 18 percent, the lowest ranking, while in Poland it dropped four points to 48 percent, and the Czech Republic fell one point to 35 percent.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/8540478

 

[Azale]

Because of his actions regarding torture, Gitmo etc

I don't think you, as the OP, can really "etc" away that list. He is trying to close Gitmo but is being stonewalled by paranoid Congressmen/women who apparently do not understand that we already imprison dangerous terrorist elements.

 

[onedreamer]

He hasn't come close to reaching the level of world support that Bush had as of 9/12/2001.

sorry but that in no way means he is doing bad for his electorate.

 

[Mark1031]

Seriously, in what respect is thus guy so much better than Bush? Is there anyone out there who supported him for election and is now still satisfied? Most of the praise for his actions on OT have come form MobBoss.

Can anyone who was foaming at the flute for him before the election come out and admit he's been a total disappointment so far?

Is this intended to be a serious post or an attempt to mock the, to my knowledge, almost non-existent foaming at the flute crowd or are you just one of the knee-jerk anti-American Europeans that Obama spoke of.

Obama has essentially done what he said he would in the campaign with greater or lesser focus in certain areas.

I was an early supporter of him because I thought he was the most likely Democrat to win. (I was right). The Democrats have very different policies from Republicans in many areas too numerous to go into unless you would like to define an area for specific discussion of specific points.

I am therefore by and large pleased with Obama.

 

[onedreamer]

Learn to read? Not really is not "he's doing worse than Bush" in common English parlance the last time I checked.

If I say "he's doing better" and you answer "not really", in common english parlance that means you are saying he isn't doing better.

 

[mrt144]

Seriously, in what respect is thus guy so much better than Bush? Is there anyone out there who supported him for election and is now still satisfied? Most of the praise for his actions on OT have come form MobBoss.

Can anyone who was foaming at the flute for him before the election come out and admit he's been a total disappointment so far?

I voted for him and he has been a major disappointment.

 

[Zack]

If I say "he's doing better" and you answer "not really", in common english parlance that means you are saying he isn't doing better.

That doesn't mean that he is doing worse. Because you clearly said:

explain in detail how is he doing worse than Bush jr in foreign politics.

On a side note:

 

[Masada]

Not really. Had we elected McCain, people of the world could have thought we were simply continuing down the same path. The fact that we elected Obama is proof to a lot of people that the USA is changing direction.

You could have elected a horse and it would have been an improvement. Bush had become toxic property.

Re-opening dialogue with Iran is not a substantial foreign policy shift? Not starting wars is not a substantial foreign policy shift?

I don't see the first as a major policy shift at all. Its a positive move but not a major shift. And the second is just plain silly he hasn't need to start one yet wait till something happens before you jump on the Obama-not-randomly-starting-wars-for-no-reason-like-Bush-wagon. He would be what the first President since Coolidge not to have a war beginning during the entire term of his Presidency?

You do realize that it is the heads-of-state that the President brokers deals with, right?

You do realize that I'm not all that bothered by what many heads-of-state say? He's aiming to improve relations with the Islamic world and the last people I want him to be congratulated by are despots like Mubarak.

If your concern is more for the people, he's winning them over as well:

Oh joy! Europe likes Obama... we already knew that. In all honesty I couldn't care a fig for what Europe thinks its not going to play a large role in any scenario involving the War on Terror that I can think of. You conveniently left out the single most important and relevant country covered in the story:

As Obama prepares to speak to the Muslim world in Cairo in a bid to repair tattered U.S. relations, the Ipsos/Reuters survey showed a 25 point jump in favorable views of America in Turkey, the only majority Muslim nation polled, to 49 percent.

*

That doesn't mean that he is doing worse.

<= != < !!!!

At least you two can read...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

"He is doing well in foreign politics, certainly about a billion times better than Bush jr." =/= Obama is doing better than Bush.

"Not really" could indicate that Obama is doing better than Bush, but not by as much as you claimed. It could be that he thinks Bush was horrible and Obama mediocre.

 

[Bast]

Is this intended to be a serious post or an attempt to mock the, to my knowledge, almost non-existent foaming at the flute crowd or are you just one of the knee-jerk anti-American Europeans that Obama spoke of.

Obama has essentially done what he said he would in the campaign with greater or lesser focus in certain areas.

I was an early supporter of him because I thought he was the most likely Democrat to win. (I was right). The Democrats have very different policies from Republicans in many areas too numerous to go into unless you would like to define an area for specific discussion of specific points.

I am therefore by and large pleased with Obama.

It's a troll thread. Or maybe he's just on one of his anti-American rampages. I saw him post a random comment about how America is still going a superpower for a little while longer or something. Random BS.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I voted for Obama/Biden because they weren't McCain/Palin. I don't think they're doing a horrible job as far as Presidents go, but then again its only been a few months; he's still got 3.5 years to eff up. By this point Bush wasn't exactly a blundering failure, either.

I hold no delusions, though, that Obama will not serve a fine role as number 1 patron of US corporate interests. And he beat off as much as any other candidate at the thought of Reagan's presidency, which speaks even more about how much I don't like him.

EDIT: So basically my point, Ralph, is that he's only a joke to anyone who thought anything of him in the first place.

 

[Masada]

"Not really" could indicate that Obama is doing better than Bush, but not by as much as you claimed. It could be that he thinks Bush was horrible and Obama mediocre.

More of the first than the second. Although the first part of the second is relevant as well.

but then again its only been a few months; he's still got 3.5 years to eff up. By this point Bush wasn't exactly a blundering failure, either.

Perspective is a beautiful thing. You just went up in my estimation

 

[onedreamer]

"Not really" could indicate that Obama is doing better than Bush, but not by as much as you claimed. It could be that he thinks Bush was horrible and Obama mediocre.

Nope, not how he expressed it. If he said: "not really, he is doing better than Bush, but not that much, because etc etc". Instead he said not really period.
I love how you guys are trying to nitpick over this thing, fact is he could have spent a coupla words more to say what he wanted to say, but he didn't and he said something else.

 

[Zack]

I love how you guys are trying to nitpick over this thing, fact is he could have spent a coupla words more to say what he wanted to say, but he didn't and he said something else.

I love the fact that you can't read common English.