Of course, Kerry is right...

[Bozo Erectus]

...which is why he was forced to apologize. The last thing people in a tired, old decadent, broken down democracy want to hear is the truth. Truth is the enemy. Especially in an election year. Does anyone actually dispute the fact that for the most part, people with the most educational opportunities are less likely to join the military? Getting a free education is one of the primary reasons people join the military in the first place. Of course there are exceptions, but most people who join the military have limited education and career opportunities, everybody knows that, so why should the guy have to apologize?

 

[ComradeDavo]

I concur, from what i've seen and learnt about the US a large amount of it's military seems to be kids joining to pay for schooling, rather than because they really want to.

 

[Till]

Because his remark was rude towards anybody employed in the military. They make a fair chunk of voters and no party would do well to annoy them. Unless irritating them gets the party more votes from other groups, of course.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I concur, from what i've seen and learnt about the US a large amount of it's military seems to be kids joining to pay for schooling, rather than because they really want to.

Well, if youre 18 or 19, and for whatever reason, your choices are limited to working in a Burger King and living with your parents, because you cant afford to pay rent on your own, or joining the military, getting a free education, seeing the world, and becoming a 'hero', its amazing more poor kids dont sign up.

@Till, Id agree that it was a rude, dumb thing to say, but its nonetheless a true statement.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Because his remark was rude towards anybody employed in the military. They make a fair chunk of voters and no party would do well to annoy them. Unless irritating them gets the party more votes from other groups, of course.

Yeah, but surely the intelligent amongst the military..i.e. those who have had to join to pay for education and half half a brain would realise what he's getting at

 

[Mise]

Yeah, but surely the intelligent amongst the military..i.e. those who have had to join to pay for education and half half a brain would realise what he's getting at

You make a good point. Whenever I make derogatory (true) statements about America or Bush, intelligent Americans agree with me and stupid Americans argue with me.

On topic, Till's right, but so's Kerry. At least he had the guts to say it. I give him credit for that, after being labelled a "flip flopper" for so long. It's refreshing to see politicians being honest.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. Eyrei.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Che Guava]

But Kerry WASN'T referring to the troops; he was referring to Bush. A pretty stupid misstep, if you ask me, but just a mistake...

The fact that more airtime is spent on this stupid little soundbyte than on the actual issues facing america is the thing that really gets to me....

 

[Phlegmak]

Kerry was a fool to not correct his mistake immediately. Kerry is doing the usual Democrat tactic of screwing up.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Actually Bozo, I've been hearing on the news that statistically servicemen are more educated than the average Americans who do not join the military.

I'd be interested to hear about how highschool drop outs end up stuck in Iraq.

 

[Atlas14]

Are you counting those that go to the Naval Academy or West Point or Air Force Academies? Cause they sure as heck are smarter than even your average person.

 

[Urederra]

I believe many join the military to obtain citizenship too. I don't have any idea about percentages, though.

 

[Phlegmak]

I believe many join the military to obtain citizenship too. I don't have any idea about percentages, though.

To gain citizenship? I don't think that's the case in the US. I've never heard of being in the military helps an immigrant become a citizen.

 

[Lotus49]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4712733&postcount=420

 

[IglooDame]

To gain citizenship? I don't think that's the case in the US. I've never heard of being in the military helps an immigrant become a citizen.

I've seen cases of servicemembers becoming citizens, I'm not sure whether service greases those wheels but it seems vaguely logical that it would (so naturally, it is probably a myth, because this is government we're talking about).

I'm of course biased, but I have had the pleasure of swearing in a thousand or so recruits coming out of Alaska a few years ago, a few at a time. From my very limited contact with each of them, I didn't get the impression that it was generally "McDonalds or the Army". Certainly for a few of them it was, and we caught a couple that had been told by a judge "join the service or get a conviction" (a no-no, and one the military actively investigates and tried to prevent).

I would say that joining the military for someone not likely to go to college is a bit like an immigrant seeking to come to the US (back in the day when it was easy to immigrate legally) - less schooled or not, you have to respect their initiative and courage in entering a very different environment in an attempt to better their circumstances in life instead of settling in and tolerating what they've got.

 

[Atlas14]

And Kerry is wrong to generalize like that, just goes to show the New England politicians are elitist pieces of crap. My friend joined the Marines, and he was in virtually all the honors classes and even got an A in AP Calculus his junior year of high school. But yes, it is easier for a terd like Kerry to make it look like his supporters (Michael Moore) are smarter than those in the military.

 

[IglooDame]

And Kerry is wrong to generalize like that, just goes to show the New England politicians are elitist pieces of crap.

Quoted for irony...

 

[plarq]

I prefer the assumption that military service is for money and/or citizenship, not patriotism.

 

[Atlas14]

Quoted for irony...

Bah, Im not a politician

 

[Little Raven]

Kerry was right in his original meaning: If leaders do not study history and learn to carefully consider ramifications of their actions, then they get stuck in bad situations that could have been avoided.

But while our military certainly has it's share of boneheads, (and perhaps, per capita, a slightly higher percentage than say, Stanford) it also has plenty of very smart men and women serving in the ranks. It has to. Gone are the days of press gangs and large numbers of grunts needed to fill out the ranks. Even the infantry these days is expected to master several technologies and be capable of independant, complex decision making. I actually suspect that on the whole, your "average" military member is likely to be sharper than "average" American, though the high standard deviation in both populations is going to make that tough to validate.

 

[El_Machinae]

Do you think maybe because a military person continues to receive active training throughout much of the career? Forcing people to think tends to increase intelligence.

You make a good point. Whenever I make derogatory (true) statements about America or Bush, intelligent Americans agree with me and stupid Americans argue with me.

I think you use the same criteria to judge intelligence that I do!