Organic craze gone too far?

[Traitorfish]

On Fair Trade:



Worth a read. Very smart guy.

Seconded. Good stuff.

 

[carmen510]

Organic Foods: I either get an extremely thin slab of meat (that admittedly tastes better and is healthier)) or vegetables/fruits that some animal crapped on or some bug nibbled on.

Conventional Food: I get huge slabs of meat (with globs of fat and tastes worse) or vegetables/fruits that has animal crap in its roots or some bug was killed on via pesticides.

Pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[GoodGame]

Like any issue, there's a black, a white, and a grey.

Some people just feel more comfortable having food the way it is. Some buy into the identity of conscious shopper.

This, though of course a lot of it is perceived health consciousness, not necessarily that they're trying to save the environment.

 

[Masada]

I couldn't give a toss about organic food but I will admit that the best hamburger (with the lot, of course) I have ever had was organic. It was freaking beautiful. So it might have an edge on taste. Certainly, cattle raised in Central Australia with little-to-no human intervention taste beautiful in general. So maybe there is something to be said for the whole thing. Who knows? I don't really care.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Maybe its because the organic animals are not fed on just grains. Sometimes the meats on the grocery stores says Range-fed which apparently makes it taste better (I dont really eat red meat though)

 

[Masada]

Most meat I eat wouldn't be grain fed. Australia, particularly where the meat I eat is sourced from, isn't given to using grain feed. But anyway I'm fairly sure organic animals can be fed organic grain.

 

[bombshoo]

Yes, free range is not the same as organic, though it almost always is. Free range is usually about concern for the animal's welfare, though there some people who eat it because they believe in "natural human diet" (sometimes corresponding to the "raw diet", if you are more familiar with that) and then, of course, there are some people who genuinely think it taste better. I have noticed a more gamey taste in free range poultry, but very little when it comes to beef. I suppose if you count non-farmed fish as "free ranged" than the taste is very significant (though in this case it being organic does not necessarily apply at all).

 

[innonimatu]

I don't know about what's sold as organic food, but I do know that the food produced for a farmer's own table is better, tastier, that what you can buy at the supermarket. My family still produces some, both vegetables and meat, and there's no comparison. Fruits, chicken, vegetables, port, even potatoes... they are different depending on whether the goal is to sell for profit, or to eat. Different feed for the animals, different varieties of fruit or vegetables... Potatoes, for example - such a simple staple of the western cuisine, regarded as standard, yet they can be very different. There's those which yield more, and those which taste better - and it doesn't pay to produce the tastier variety for sale.

Even "processed" products - olive oil bought directly from the presser, for example, never have I found any "virgin" olive oil on sale at a supermarket (even the supposedly good - and very expensive - brands) which compared in taste. The idiots filter the oil because they believe it looks better that way on the bottles!

I don't think that there will ever be a mass market for good quality food. Most people want low cost, so that's what gets produced, to the exclusion of almost anything else.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Well it dont help when people are poor to afford food. I mean I can go through a two-liter of milk a day. I don't know where it all goes though.

 

[bombshoo]

I don't know about what's sold as organic food, but I do know that the food produced for a farmer's own table is better, tastier, that what you can buy at the supermarket. My family still produces some, both vegetables and meat, and there's no comparison. Fruits, chicken, vegetables, port, even potatoes... they are different depending on whether the goal is to sell for profit, or to eat. Different feed for the animals, different varieties of fruit or vegetables... Potatoes, for example - such a simple staple of the western cuisine, regarded as standard, yet they can be very different. There's those which yield more, and those which taste better - and it doesn't pay to produce the tastier variety for sale.

Even "processed" products - olive oil bought directly from the presser, for example, never have I found any "virgin" olive oil on sale at a supermarket (even the supposedly good - and very expensive - brands) which compared in taste. The idiots filter the oil because they believe it looks better that way on the bottles!

I don't think that there will ever be a mass market for good quality food. Most people want low cost, so that's what gets produced, to the exclusion of almost anything else.

Though this may very well have to do with freshness rather than the farmers keeping the good stuff for themselves or something. Just the taste difference in home-grown herbs in a flower pot on your windowsill compared to picked store bought ones is amazing. The minute it's picked it starts losing taste it seems.

 

[innonimatu]

Though this may very well have to do with freshness rather than the farmers keeping the good stuff for themselves or something. Just the taste difference in home-grown herbs in a flower pot on your windowsill compared to picked store bought ones is amazing. The minute it's picked it starts losing taste it seems.

Yes, that's also true. But there are many varieties which you simply cannot find in the regular commercial circuit. It's not that farmers pick out the best for themselves, it's that it doesn't pay to produce those varieties for sale.

 

[bombshoo]

Yes, that's also true. But there are many varieties which you simply cannot find in the regular commercial circuit. It's not that farmers pick out the best for themselves, it's that it doesn't pay to produce those varieties for sale.

Actually I entirely agree with you there. If you look earlier in the thread I basically pointed out that when they sell some of these crops it is often only at farmer's markets or small organic stores, which is a reason I prefer these stores regardless of the supposed health, economic or environmental benefits of organic/locally grown food. Farmer's markets are the only place I've ever been able to find chacoense peppers, a fairly useful ingredient in authentic Thai and Indian food, for example.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

This textbook I has says that some state in the US grows a lot of "luxury potatoes" if thats what it means. Thats the literal term.

 

[bombshoo]

This textbook I has says that some state in the US grows a lot of "luxury potatoes" if thats what it means. Thats the literal term.

American potatoes are typically larger and more useful for widescale commercial use (potato chips, french fries) than the typically eaten potatoes of the Pacific, Asia or Latin America. You never see blue potato fries for example.

McDonald's uses Russet Burbank potatoes which look like this:

What most westerners probably think of as a common potato basically...

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

like these?
http://cafecyan.blogspot.com/2006/06/sloppy-lentils-and-blue-potato-fries.html

 

[bombshoo]

like these?
http://cafecyan.blogspot.com/2006/06/sloppy-lentils-and-blue-potato-fries.html

Heh. Well yeah, if people can think of something they'll do it (or at least pull up the first option on google ). My point was it's uncommon.

Speaking of, I've noticed Sweet potato fries to be all the rage these days for some reason...

Edit: Actually apparently, this is the potato I was thinking of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitelotte

The "blue potato" is newer and a hybrid bred by Cornell University.

 

[civ_king]

To my knowledge i beileve it has.
Disclaimer: My definition of Organic only refers to food in the U.S that is labled organic.

Many people buy organic because they beileve it to be healthier even though that isnt necessarily true. Manufacturers of foods and food products have bought into this hype.

Walk into a supermarket and you will find all sorts of things labeled organic from cereal to even pet food (Oh brother).

Are society is becoming increasingly health conscious at the cost of common sense. Just because something is organic doesnt mean its any healthier if anything i could be more dangerous.

Organic foods do not have to meet the same regulations as other foods and some of those requirements are to protect the life of the product. For example something without preservatives will rot faster, and organic foods may not have additives so they may not be as nutricious or tasty. Organic foods also cannot be genetically modified or exposed to irradiation.

Irradiation is a food preservation technique shown to extend the freshness of food and has no proven negative health effects. Yet in the wake of this Organic craze people have lobbied to keep foods from being irradiated despite the lack of drawbacks.

Also genetically modified food cannot be labeled as organic. This comes at the cost of effecient farming and drives up the price of food for no real reason other than animal rights concerns. Food with added supplemental nutrients cannot be labeled as organic.

Consumers who buy only organic do so for the wrong reasons in my experience.

1) Actually to use pesticides farmers use GM varieties that are less nutritious so in reality the natural one comes out a head
2) Actually organic farming yields higher amounts per acre

I actually argue with my wife about this stuff. Most of the 'organic' stuff she buys costs a ton more, tastes like crap, and probably has very little, if any added benefit.

In my opinion: definitely not worth the additional cost.

then your doing at wrong, the produce I buy at the farmer's market tastes better for less money (when in season)

First off unless your eating metal all food is organic. Yes all food no matter how much products they put in they are organic.



Pesticides were added to prevent bugs from eating the food over humans. Do you like bananas? Cause if you do you better hope that science figures out a GMO banana to keep them alive. Organic foods have higher chance of having bacteria and don't keep as long


To bad its never been proven that "organic" food is better for you then the normal stuff. In fact it could be argued that it is in fact worst for you since it needs more organic pesticides and fungicides.

organic |ôrˈganik|
(of food or farming methods) produced or involving production without the use of chemical fertilizers, pesticides, or other artificial agents.

Yeah...

no I don't like bananas, I like other plantains

Organic food really does tastes better a lot of the time (I know there is people who debate this, but trust me it does).

I usually buy it for the tastes rather than any actual belief that it's morally superior or healthier. It may or may not be, but I don't really care since I'm not really a glutton and even when I buy normal brands I avoid the really bad companies like Tyson.

If it doesn't taste better then you are doing it wrong

I don't pay extra for food grown with outdated and inefficient methods and believe that "organic is better" is modern superstition.

Um, no. Prices would go up until productions increases to compensate increased demand.

Actually my organic food is grown cheaper, more efficiently and with newer techniques than conventional stuff so you and your pre conceived notions can go away

Who said there lying? Not telling you when you just assume its local is not lying.

At the local farmer's market they are required by city ordinance to display the origin of the food

Read the link I gave already. Basically organic food is worst for health unless you like E.Coli and cow #2 all over it.

you do realize that grass feed beef rarely get E. Coli right? And cow feces is better than round up sprayed crops

 

[Masada]

Commercially grown potatoes are tasteless. (Yes, Masada spent serious time in potato country when he was younger).

 

[El_Machinae]

Woah, geez.

Okay, yes, the 'organic label' needs some refinement. This is true of all branding.

But more and more evidence is coming out that in certain foods organic is certainly likely to be more healthy and is certainly likely to be much better for the environment. It's a case-by-case basis. And it's something to keep an eye out for, and to pay attention to the popular scientific press.

Blanket statements won't work in this case.

 

[Masada]

But more and more evidence is coming out that in certain foods organic is certainly likely to be more healthy

Six month old tomatoes are probably not good for anything except drinking.

and is certainly likely to be much better for the environment.

I'm not sure I buy this.