Paris burning

[kryszcztov]

Everything that was attempted failed. I don't believe in neither the Socialists nor the UMP (right) to deeply restore confidence in society in this part of the population. What they need is to believe in their country (France) and, for a start, in themselves. A few places where this can happen and is sometimes neglected : family, school, social activities... But hey, only the rich people get cared after quite well, is that a surprise ?

A tough response to those incidents is maybe needed, but this is surely not the solution to our problem. Sarkozy is just a moron, deeply inspired by the American way (though he isn't the crap that is Madelin (ultra-liberal)). I'm committing suicide if this jerk gets elected in 2007. And France along, I guess (since when are elections fair ?). "Sending the troops" will solve the situation on its surface for some time, and in 10 years it is all starting up again. Bah, this doesn't fit in politicians' agendas, and more importantly in voters' agendas.

A minister calling them "scum" in 2005, I think I'm dreaming. Nice, nice move from the Republic.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Yeah, but what does that say about those kids doing it? Why are they doing it according to you? And what should be done about it?

What should be done ? Well, on the short term, what cops are doing every nights, incarcerating the jerks burning cars. On the longer term, bringing jobs back in those neighbourhoods.

But the situation isn't the hell depicted by people on this forum. I insist. I've been to St-Denis this afternoon and it was all calm. I didn't even think about the riots which were supposed to occure there according to the map you've posted.

 

[Renata]

Rioting in Birmingham, Paris and on a smaller scale Denmark... It's dosn't feel nice to say so, but everytime it's immigrants... I guess society is to blame, in the meaning that it's been letting too many immigrants into the country in the first place... There's more than we have been able to integrate, and now we have terror and riots in our own cities.

Closing the borders to non-western countries should be the first obvious step, striking hard against immigrant crime should be the second. But let's not forget that the vast majority of immigrants are neither terrorists or rioters. They should not be blamed for the actions of a minority.

About Paris, it is clear that the soft approach did not contain nor stop the violence. Send in the troops.

In the US, every time it's the blacks, except once or twice when it's been the Jews. (Crown Heights, IIRC.) Guess we should just deport all the black people back to Africa; obviously this whole civilization thing isn't working. But of course we should keep in mind that the rioters are only a minority.

Honestly, do you people even listen to yourselves? Poor minority people with few opportunities riot periodically, in every society. It's not because they're black, or because they're Muslim; it's because they believe, with some cause (just look at the comments here!) that the rest of the country is out to get them, and they want to fight back. In this case, the incident that set it off was apparently a mistake, but it could just as easily have been something more worthy of the response.

If you're European, try to imagine an American saying equivalent things about blacks after the 1992 LA riots, and what you would have thought of that American.

 

[jameson]

That's an entirely too common-sense take on the subject - I've been guilty of the same in my post in the other thread on the subject.

Evidently it's better to attack the symptoms .

 

[Bozo Erectus]

In the US, every time it's the blacks, except once or twice when it's been the Jews. (Crown Heights, IIRC.) Guess we should just deport all the black people back to Africa; obviously this whole civilization thing isn't working.

In the case of rioting here in the US, blacks and Jews are citizens so obviously nobody would suggest deporting them. But generally speaking, if a person who's rioting and shooting at police and firefighters isnt even a citizen, whats wrong with deporting him?

Honestly, do you people even listen to yourselves? Poor minority people with few opportunities riot periodically, in every society. It's not because they're black, or because they're Muslim; it's because they believe, with some cause (just look at the comments here!) that the rest of the country is out to get them, and they want to fight back. In this case, the incident that set it off was apparently a mistake, but it could just as easily have been something more worthy of the response.

They might have some very legitimate grievances that under normal circumstances I could sympathize with, but the minute they take to the streets and start torching communities, theyve lost me.

 

[Japher]

In the case of rioting here in the US, blacks and Jews are citizens so obviously nobody would suggest deporting them. But generally speaking, if a person who's rioting and shooting at police and firefighters isnt even a citizen, whats wrong with deporting him?

WTH!? You're suppose to give them drivers liscences like we do to our mexicans

 

[AceChilla]

These kids obviously are scum, and acting like you understand why they do it only makes them think they are right for doing it. Thats completely the opposite message of the one you should give.

 

[Marla_Singer]

These kids obviously are scum, and acting like you understand why they do it only makes them think they are right for doing it. Thats completely the opposite message of the one you should give.

No one denies they are scums. Actually "racaille" is the way they call themselves, or more exactly "caille-ra", which is simply the verlan variant of the word (a slang consisting in inverting the syllables of words). Anyway, no one gives any message inciting them to continue AceChilla.

 

[AceChilla]

No one denies they are scums. Actually "racaille" is the way they call themselves, or more exactly "caille-ra", which is simply the verlan variant of the word (a slang consisting in inverting the syllables of words). Anyway, no one gives any message inciting them to continue AceChilla.

As long as people are saying "we understand you difficult situation in your suburbs, your being discriminated by the police and employees, you cant get jobs and other blabla" in they end they will even start to believe that themselves.

Then you are basically saying we understand why your doing it, its our fault, so please punish us for being racist. Burn my car.

This kind of appeasement isn't going to help one bit. These guys need to realise they are not victims but are responsible for their own situation. Don't blame society you don't have a job. Go find one...

Your basically keep these people hostage in this victim image everytime you tell them you understand why they feel it.

 

[Marla_Singer]

As long as people are saying "we understand you difficult situation in your suburbs, your being discriminated by the police and employees, you cant get jobs and other blabla" in they end they will even start to believe that themselves.

Then you are basically saying we understand why your doing it, its our fault, so please punish us for being racist. Burn my car.

This kind of appeasement isn't going to help one bit. These guys need to realise they are not victims but are responsible for their own situation. Don't blame society you don't have a job. Go find one...

Your basically keep these people hostage in this victim image everytime you tell them you understand why they feel it.

Where have you got the idea people were appeasing them ?

 

[IglooDame]

In the case of rioting here in the US, blacks and Jews are citizens so obviously nobody would suggest deporting them. But generally speaking, if a person who's rioting and shooting at police and firefighters isnt even a citizen, whats wrong with deporting him?

What is wrong with deporting someone who was caught shooting at police and firefighters? It is far too lenient. They should be tried for attempted murder and if convicted sent to a prison for a decade or three.

 

[AceChilla]

Where have you got the idea people were appeasing them ?

Well I read there was a row in France because Sarkozy called them scum, kryszcztov mentioned it too..., that kinda made me think, why can't we call these people what they are? because they are victims?

Whats the big deal about calling them scum?

 

[Little Raven]

Whats the big deal about calling them scum?

Because there are constructive ways and destructive ways to deal with people, even difficult people.

Calling somebody 'scum' rarely serves as an inspiration for them to better themselves. Far more often, it serves to create an 'us against them' mentality which can lead to the type of situation we're now seeing.

 

[Lozzy_Ozzy]

Because theyre black, its OBVIOUSLY wrong to call them scum.

Go figure.

.

(Not to be racist or anything ).

 

[nonconformist]

Paris Brule t'il?
Et c'etait les Bosches la derniere fois.....

Isn't Sarkhozy the gay conservative?

 

[jameson]

As long as people are saying "we understand you difficult situation in your suburbs, your being discriminated by the police and employees, you cant get jobs and other blabla" in they end they will even start to believe that themselves.

Then you are basically saying we understand why your doing it, its our fault, so please punish us for being racist. Burn my car.

This kind of appeasement isn't going to help one bit. These guys need to realise they are not victims but are responsible for their own situation. Don't blame society you don't have a job. Go find one...

Yeah, jobs will magically appear for those who want 'em. And you can earn so much more from welfare than you can from having any kind of job that there's really no point in not leeching off the state for your income. Besides, prospective employers are not in any way going to consider your skin colour or religion in their hiring decisions at all.

Seriously, I agree that the utmost pressure should be put on those on welfare to go and get any kind of job at all, but reality being what it is, even those who do their best to make a living for themselves aren't always going to get a job regardless of their efforts.

Of course, nothing excuses burning down neighbourhoods, firing shots at firemen et cetera. But you don't solve that long term by imprisoning those who do that and smacking down the rest through martial law. Short term, there may be no alternative. Long term, you want to address root causes, and religion or immgration aren't by themselves part of those.

 

[Double Barrel]

Isn't tolerance and diversity a wonderful thing.

You would think these thugs would want to all hold hands and sing kumbaya after being allowed to live in the wonderful city of Paris.

So much for gratitude.

 

[jameson]

The neighbourhoods of Paris where the rioting is taking place are as close to Paris as Newark is to NYC and South Central and Watts are to LA.

It's the economics sparking the riots, not so much the race or religion of the rioters (though I guess they do play a part).

 

[Winner]

It's like when 10-years-old boy beats 7-years-old on the playground. Adults tend to punish the older boy, because he is stronger. They usually don't see the reason why is he beating the smaller guy. For example the smaller children often provoke and intentionally annoy their older siblings, just to get an attention.


"Ah, evil police fights the dark people - they're racist! The rioters are just poor victims!"

Yeah, right

 

[Evil Tyrant]

They are still rioting? The French need to send in the army now, with live ammunition and orders to shoot anyone who so much as thinks about misbehaving. I'd have done it the first day they started rioting.