Paris burning

[Sophie 378]

That should be in Screenshot of the Day, or maybe the Funny Pictures thread in Humour/jokes.

 

[kryszcztov]

I've yet to hear "kill muslims" chants in a Xtian church, but go to any of the more radical mosques and "kill infidels" is part of the day...

I'm an agnostic by the way, and do not buy into "invisible sky wizard" cults...

Errr... and what would be a "radical church" ? One where KKK members gather together ? Or what other racist sect ? So some imams have decided to give Christians and Jews a hard time, and that's why we should blame the whole Muslim world ? Are you out of yourself ??? OK, I have 2 good Muslim friends, and BTW they're not French but have been living in Paris for many years now. What do I tell them ? That their religion is the crappiest of all, and that all its fidels should be persecuted ? FYI, I also don't believe in God, don't claim there is none (am I agnostic ? if that pleases you), and, as much as I dislike the concept of religion today, I care for people. Do you ?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

That is news to me. So far, only Sarkozy has hinted (so much) that he would run for Presidency.

Come on dude, keep it real. Just because the Barber of De Villepin hasnt formerly announced he's running, you dont know what he's going to do? I doubt he's going to drop out of politics and open a dance studio

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

ROTFLMAO. Opposite. As kronic said, he currently leads the UMP, the major right-wing party (also home of Chirac and de Villepin, since they all run the country). The left is currently dead. It's surprising from you to miss that, I thought I had expressed my anger towards Sarkozy and his police state dreams enough ?


Try to remember how the Muslim community in the USA react after 9/11. Completely against the attacks, but then, who would listen ? A very difficult situation for them. Not to add that they have no relationship with that (as far as we know), and they may get annoyed to be stigmated by racist, white guys all the time. It makes you wonder, would we blame the Catholic or Protestant Church if the KKK made some terrorist attacks ? Ah, now you feel closer to the Muslim community, thanks to me.

Well i'm not a specialist on french politcs ,and somehow i read over that specific line ,sorry about that. I'm not french anyway ,it's only an outside view ,but i live near Lille and the sight of the concrete ghetto's there leave's enough to the immagination.Meh this social emotions could easily be noticed ,in french movies ,french rap music.

Btw ,one thing i always noticed in Lille is that in almost all restaurants or tea-rooms in the city it are immigrant youth who do the dirty work ,the dishing and serving etc.I wonder who's going to staff the restaurants now.Sorry a bit overexagurated that but still...

About the reaction abroad ,i was thinking back to the reaction the ban on the veil gave in the muslim world ,though it's a whole different (religious) issue in a prominent secular state.However i think if this episode leads to the stigmatization of immigrants in France (good chance) then i think it's will have some effect in it's former colony's.

As to stigmatization in general ... just find an easy scapegoat i guess.What do you think extreme right's reaction will be?a bit of poppulist dogmatics on this ,obviously blaming the Immigrants ,little do they care about the origin as long as they can profit now.Find a coman enemy to blame it all on and then let this issue hijack politics to switch attention of other important issue's ,easy as pie.

But like i said ,i doubt one can still easily rectify the situation ,it's just so deep rooted ,to much to change in a matter of a few years.This is about on all levels a loose-loose situation for France ,go soft on the rioters and you give them more momentum ,crackdown hard and you only give them reasons to fight more bitterly ,promises can be made but theyll be hard to accomplish and by then this situation can have repeated itself a few times ,and the less changes the grimmer it will get to.

One thing i hope is that parents ,or non-militant members of those riot are's ,create a political wing after this rioting and try to use the episode as leverage for demanding changes ,with the advantage that they might keep "their" militants under control.But i doubt they can put up much pressure as minority in the long run.

 

[Winner]

So, they're now shooting at the police, but still all is fine...

French police shot by rioting mob

About 30 policemen have been injured by shots and stones in a Paris suburb - on an 11th night of unrest across France.

They were attacked by some 200 rioters in Grigny, south of Paris. Two policemen were seriously injured.

The incident came hours after President Jacques Chirac said that restoring order was an "absolute priority".

Hundreds of cars were set on fire in different towns on Sunday night, and police had to use tear gas to disperse a club-wielding mob in Toulouse.

Police reported at least 839 vehicles burnt and 186 arrests on Sunday night.

Unrest has gripped areas with large African and Arab communities since the deaths of two youths in the rundown Paris suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois, who were accidentally electrocuted at an electricity sub-station after reportedly fleeing police.

Targeting police

The two police officers were injured by gunfire in what police described as an "ambush" in Grigny late on Sunday.

They were reportedly taken to hospital with wounds to the leg and throat.

Police chiefs said their men were being deliberately confronted by gangs apparently intent on fighting them.

"They really shot at officers. this is real serious violence - not like the previous nights. I'm very worried because this is mounting," senior police officer in the area, Bernard Franio, said.

In the southern city of Toulouse, police fired tear gas grenades to push back rioters.

Violent attacks were also reported in Orleans, Rennes and Nantes.

'Determined'

"The law must have the last word," Mr Chirac told reporters in his first public address on the violence on Sunday.

"The Republic is quite determined... to be stronger than those who want to sow violence or fear."

Mr Chirac promised arrest, trials and punishment for perpetrators.

But he also noted that "respect for all, justice and equal opportunity," were needed to end the unrest.

Mr Chirac has faced criticism from opposition politicians for not speaking publicly about the unrest since it began on 27 October. His only previous comments came through a spokesman.

Sunday's remarks came after talks with key ministers including Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, at the presidential palace in Paris.

 

[Bugfatty300]

A little off-topic, but I thought France was a gun-free society?

So much for the anti-gun people using post-Katrina riots and anarchy as reason to ban guns.

 

[Taliesin]

I saw an item on the CBC last night showing the damage in Evreux, which appears to be a small town in Normandy: stores completely razed, rubble in the street. Brutal stuff. The CBC is also reporting that more than 1500 cars and busses have been torched, and on Saturday two schools were burnt down in a Paris suburb.

I admire the restraint displayed by the French government in not reacting in Draconian fashion, but I think stern force has now become necessary. 11 days of rioting is too long for a state to endure, and the unrest shows every sign of increasing rather than petering out. I hope it is a flash in the pan, rather than an indicator of things to come; in any event, it's time for the French state to, however reluctantly, use armed force to end this nonsense.

 

[storealex]

A little off-topic, but I thought France was a gun-free society?

So much for the anti-gun people using post-Katrina riots and anarchy as reason to ban guns.

Come on, there's no reason to be ignorant. No country is 100% gun-free, it's all about numbers. There's even guns in Denmark, though prohibited by law. The law does not remove them completely, only decrease their numbers.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Come on, there's no reason to be ignorant. No country is 100% gun-free, it's all about numbers. There's even guns in Denmark, though prohibited by law. The law does not remove them completely, only decrease their numbers.

I'm talking about people using post-Katrina incidents to furthur anti-gun legislation.

And as for "gun-free," I was being sarcastic.

 

[storealex]

I'm talking about people using post-Katrina incidents to furthur anti-gun legislation.

And what's wrong with that? It's clear that enforced anti-gun legislation decrease the numbers of guns, and therefore the number of dead people.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Canada has more guns per person than the US or anyother country in the world and look at their gun death rate. Its lower than even some European countries.

Its more than just numbers I'm afraid.

Western Europe has a long history of strict gun control and they work when you examine statistics. But such laws would do little on the American society which has a massive gun society not to mention millions and millions of guns, only a few of which are registered.

Its a social issue really.

 

[Taliesin]

As far as I know, though, our handgun ownership rate is fairly low. It's rifles that bring the average up to 1 gun per household. In any event, I think the ban on carrying guns in public qualifies as "anti-gun legislation", and so Canada's low gun-related homicide rate would really seem to support storealex here.

 

[TheEvilCheater]

And what's wrong with that? It's clear that enforced anti-gun legislation decrease the numbers of guns, and therefore the number of dead people.

*cough* Britians homicide rate went up after guns got the banned *cough*

 

[Bugfatty300]

As far as I know, though, our handgun ownership rate is fairly low. It's rifles that bring the average up to 1 gun per household. In any event, I think the ban on carrying guns in public qualifies as "anti-gun legislation", and so Canada's low gun-related homicide rate would really seem to support storealex here.

That actually contradicts Storealex's theory that less guns = less crime.

The US has an almost universal ban on carrying guns in public with out special license except in rural areas where gun violence is nothing compared to Urban areas where guns are completely banned.

Its much more complicated than simply banning guns everywhere.

Its quite obvious that Americans view guns much differently than most other western countries so its not really logical to think that simply banning alll guns in the US will solve the problem. Millions of people already own and keep guns illegally.

 

[TheEvilCheater]

That actually contradicts Storealex's theory that less guns = less crime.

The US has an almost universal ban on carrying guns in public with out special license except in rural areas where gun violence is nothing compared to Urban areas where guns are completely banned.

Its much more complicated than simply banning guns everywhere.

Anyway who thinks banning guns will stop the violence is a bit insane.

Finland Switzerland and other countries with high gun ownership per capita compared to britian. And yet have crime rates that make britians look 3rd world. It all boils down to cultural conflicts and economic situations. I mean america has cities with more population than european countries have total. Thats a breeding ground for crime. So of course were going to have more ect ect.

 

[Taliesin]

I stand corrected. I thought it was legal in American cities to carry concealed handguns.

 

[storealex]

Bugfatty and evil cheater, it's too simple to mention a single example that supports your argument, when there's plenty of examples that goes the other way. I believe that's selective evidence.
Of course it's also a social issue. No one is saying that it is only a legislation issue alright? What Im saying is that anti-gun legislation decrease the number of guns. Sure there would still be lot's of them in US, even with a ban, but don't tell me an enforced ban, followed by hard sentences for violation, would not decrease them amount of guns in US.

 

[TheEvilCheater]

Bugfatty and evil cheater, it's too simple to mention a single example that supports your argument, when there's plenty of examples that goes the other way. I believe that's selective evidence.
Of course it's also a social issue. No one is saying that it is only a legislation issue alright? What Im saying is that anti-gun legislation decrease the number of guns. Sure there would still be lot's of them in US, even with a ban, but don't tell me an enforced ban, followed by hard sentences for violation, would not decrease them amount of guns in US.

well duh law adbiding citizens will always obey the laws. So of course they'll give them up and follow the laws. And thats y thenumber will decrease

All the laws do is take the guns out of the hands of the law adbiding ones. Criminials are allready prepared to break the law to asume they wont break the law to get a weapon is bad logic. Tho in alot of big cities it is illegal for alot of different guns. Of course it doesnt stop them from illegally getting them.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Bugfatty and evil cheater, it's too simple to mention a single example that supports your argument, when there's plenty of examples that goes the other way. I believe that's selective evidence.
Of course it's also a social issue. No one is saying that it is only a legislation issue alright? What Im saying is that anti-gun legislation decrease the number of guns. Sure there would still be lot's of them in US, even with a ban, but don't tell me an enforced ban, followed by hard sentences for violation, would not decrease them amount of guns in US.

Example. Washingdon D.C. has a 100% ban on all firearms. No one can own or even keep any handgun or musket. Not even papa's old squirrel gun locked up in the addic is legal.

DC has one of the highest handgun murder rate in the country.

So sure there are less guns per person in DC than your average rural county or but is gun violence (per person) any less? Nope.

 

[storealex]

Then that must mean that the law is not enforced probably, which was one of the conditions I already mentioned for it to work.