Paula Deen - PC garbage or a true issue?

PC garbage of course. I cant really understand why any word should be given so much meaning.
Out of interest, would you happen to be a straight white male? Not that this necessarily invalidates your opinion, but if it is the case that you belong to a particular demographic to which no particularly weighty slurs can be applied, that might go some way to explaining why you have a difficult time understanding why people feel so strongly about these words.
 
Out of interest, would you happen to be a straight white male? Not that this necessarily invalidates your opinion, but if it is the case that you belong to a particular demographic to which no particularly weighty slurs can be applied, that might go some way to explaining why you have a difficult time understanding why people feel so strongly about these words.


Honkeys are oppressed. :scan:
 
Out of interest, would you happen to be a straight white male? Not that this necessarily invalidates your opinion, but if it is the case that you belong to a particular demographic to which no particularly weighty slurs can be applied, that might go some way to explaining why you have a difficult time understanding why people feel so strongly about these words.

Someone's never been called a stupid cracker on a playground full of blacks.
 
I'm not denying that it is possible for people who are white or male or straight to be ostracised under certain circumstances, but it's not really a generalised phenomenon, so such slurs don't carry any broader social or historical weight. A white person in a heavily black area might be put out to be called a "cracker", because it carries certain implications of cultural exclusion, I can understand that, but to somebody in a pasty town like mine it would just feel a bit ridiculous. "N____", on the other, would be offensive anywhere, regardless of the relative proportion of black:non-black faces, because it carries the weight of centuries of marginalisation and oppression.
 
People are awfully quick to bring up the Southern thing like only Southerners are racist.
The real difference is that the racists in the rest of the country learned long ago to hide their racism. To no longer state or show it publicly. Some Southerners still have no problem either directly or indirectly advocating the "good old days".
 
Proof? Before you Google bomb us just think about how easy it will be for me to provide examples from Boston, NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago or even London or Paris for that matter.
 
I'm not denying that it is possible for people who are white or male or straight to be ostracised under certain circumstances, but it's not really a generalised phenomenon, so such slurs don't carry any broader social or historical weight. A white person in a heavily black area might be put out to be called a "cracker", because it carries certain implications of cultural exclusion, I can understand that, but to somebody in a pasty town like mine it would just feel a bit ridiculous. "N____", on the other, would be offensive anywhere, regardless of the relative proportion of black:non-black faces, because it carries the weight of centuries of marginalisation and oppression.

Anywhere in North America and probably western Europe. The word does not carry the same weight behind it in other places.
 
Proof? Before you Google bomb us just think about how easy it will be for me to provide examples from Boston, NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago or even London or Paris for that matter.
You want "proof" that overtly being a racist is no longer politically correct in the US? That I think some Southerners still do so to a greater degree than other areas from my own personal experience? That this is just my opinion instead of any sort of "provable" fact?

But since you so politely asked, here is a "Google bomb" for you:

Mother Jones: This Study Said the South Is More Racist Than the North

"Is it the government's submission that the citizens of the South are more racist than the citizens of the North?" John Roberts, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, asked that in February during oral arguments over the fate of the Voting Rights Act, a 1965 civil rights law. Donald Verrilli, the government's chief lawyer, said no. Not surprisingly, the Obama administration was not willing to assert that citizens in Southern states were statistically more likely to hold racist beliefs. Without making such a claim, though, it was harder for the government to defend the VRA's requirement that some states—but not others—seek federal approval (which lawyers call preclearance) before changing their voting laws.

The eight states that are required to seek preclearance are determined by a formula intended to pick out areas with a history of discrimination. (Places that go for 10 years without discriminating can escape the requirement.) On Tuesday, the Supreme Court voted 5-4 to strike down that formula as unconstitutional. Here's the idea that led to that decision: If all states are equally racist (or not racist), why not treat them equally?

Certainly plenty of people outside of the South are racist, and plenty of people in the South are not. But here's the trouble: There's social-science evidence that, 150 years after the Civil War, Southern states do have bigger racism problems than states outside the South. And many of them are the same states that the VRA requires to seek federal approval before changing their voting laws.

The key study on this subject is new. In May, Christopher Elmendorf and Douglas Spencer—law professors at the University of California-Davis and the University of Connecticut, respectively—released a paper arguing that the list of states required to obtain federal approval under the VRA "remarkably" mirrors "the geography of anti-black prejudice" in the United States. "What we have generated," Elmendorf says, "is an answer to the question that the chief justice asked during oral arguments and [Verrilli] was either unable or unwilling to answer." The answer, they argue, is yes.

Elmendorf and Spencer used data from the 2008 National Annenberg Election Survey, which asked nonblacks to rank their own racial group and blacks regarding intelligence, trustworthiness, and work ethic. Respondents ranked their racial group above blacks by an average of 15 points in each of these categories, perhaps proving the Avenue Q claim that "everyone's a little bit racist." Elmendorf and Spencer, however, only counted a person as "prejudiced" if he thought his racial group was more superior to blacks than the average person—and only if he thought so in two or more of the three categories. That is, a respondent could think his race was a lot better than blacks and still not count as racist under their methodology.

The results were striking: The researchers' mathematical model suggests that of the seven states in the country with the highest percentage of people who are biased against black people, six are Southern states—Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina—required to seek federal approval for election law changes under the VRA. Arizona and Alaska, the other two states required to get the feds' permission before changing their election laws, ranked much lower in anti-black bias. But as Elmendorf and Spencer note, these states are presumably required to seek that permission because of other bias—anti-Latino in Arizona and anti-Native American in Alaska—which their study did not measure. (Besides the eight states mentioned above, the VRA requires some counties and municipalities in seven other states to seek federal permission to change election rules.)

The researchers crunched the data several different ways to make sure they were getting valid results. But "whichever approach you pick, the Deep South states are close to the top," Elmendorf says.

Elmendorf and Spencer's study came too late: On Tuesday, the Supreme Court struck down the portion of the VRA that governs which states are and are not required to seek the feds' permission to change their election rules. Now Congress will have to come up with new rules to determine which states this section of the VRA should cover. If lawmakers decide to embrace Roberts' implication that states with more racist attitudes should receive special scrutiny, Elmendorf and Spencer's study suggests they could end up with a list of VRA-covered states that looks a lot like today's.
 
Im pretty much just saying that this PC stuff does not fit to countries outside Anglo-Saxon world. Talking about USA, Great Britain, South-Africa and Australia. People from these countries dont know other cultures. This can lead to misunderstandings.

Some candies were banded in Finland, because some fools in Britain thought that the wrapping papers of these candies offended black people. There were African people in the pictures of these candies so of course they must be racist. They had African features like big lips so of course they are made to ridicule black people. I, other Finnish people or black people living here didnt understand they were racist until wise Brits came to tell us that those candies were racist.

I dont think these overly PC stuff really helps anything.
 
Im pretty much just saying that this PC stuff does not fit to countries outside Anglo-Saxon world. Talking about USA, Great Britain, South-Africa and Australia. People from these countries dont know other cultures. This can lead to misunderstandings.

Some candies were banded in Finland, because some fools in Britain thought that the wrapping papers of these candies offended black people. There were African people in the pictures of these candies so of course they must be racist. They had African features like big lips so of course they are made to ridicule black people. I, other Finnish people or black people living here didnt understand they were racist until wise Brits came to tell us that those candies were racist.

I dont think these overly PC stuff really helps anything.
Reminds me of Golliwogs, which were fantastic chocolate biscuits in Australia that happened to be shaped like caricatures of small children with fuzzy hair. Being chocolate, these biscuits were black. My god, the stir they caused when someone finally decided they were racist.

Then there's Coon cheese, a company named after its founder, whose surname was Coon, which ar also apparently racist. A certain sportsfield in Queensland was renamed a few years ago because its name was "N*gger Brown field." That sounds bad, until you realise the ground was named after local sporting hero N*gger Brown. Yes, that is the most unfortunate name in history, but it was still the chap's name.

Let's not forget that you can't call cigarettes "fags" in Australia anymore, despite the term "f*ggot" literally meaning "a bundle of sticks," which is much more logical when applied to cigarettes than homosexual men. There was a candy in Australia, shaped like cigarettes, called "Fags" which were shaped like cigarettes, but first they had to change their name to "Fads" because the previous name was offensive, then they had to remove the small orange colouring from one end - the only part of the candy that actually tasted good - to make it look less like a cigarette, removing the only two reasons for kids to want them, forcing the company to withdraw the product.

In case you haven't worked it out, I like Fags and Golliwogs.
 
In Turkey there's a brand of cookies called negros which are black but not shaped like black people and doesn't have a picture of a black man or anything like that. No one has raised a stink about it but Turkey only has a really tiny black minority and is not a very PC place anyway. A group of black Americans I met in Turkey thought it was hilarious and were taking photos of it.
 
You want "proof" that overtly being a racist is no longer politically correct in the US? That I think some Southerners still do so to a greater degree than other areas from my own personal experience? That this is just my opinion instead of any sort of "provable" fact?/

Stalling? I would normally say by faining ignorance but in this case...

But since you so politely asked, here is a "Google bomb" for you:

Mother Jones: This Study Said the South Is More Racist Than the North

Thank you for showing us it is the opinion of both the Executive Branch and Supreme Court that the South is no more racist than anywhere else.
 
Coincidentally, I saw Fads for sale last night. Apparently they didn't go out of business, they just down-sized, rendering my insane rant above obsolete.
 
Fads come and go, racism not that much.
 
I don't think people should be strung up for a word choice made thirty years ago during a time of stress.

I do think it is upsetting when a workplace becomes an unsafe or hostile.

I think it is a shame that people are focusing on her symbolic use of language instead of any material discrimination or hostile workplace issues.
 
Thank you for showing us it is the opinion of both the Executive Branch and Supreme Court that the South is no more racist than anywhere else.
Actually, that is not what the Supreme Court stated at all in yet another 5-4 decision with the Republican reactionaries again voting the same. They stated the standards needed to be revamped to reflect the issues of today instead of 50 years ago. Claiming they did find that "the South is no more racist than anywhere else" is just yet another example of your clearly disingenuous remarks concerning how generally more racist of the South continues to be in relation to other parts of the country, as the recent study I posted makes quite clear.

While the racism has obviously gotten better than it was less that 30 years ago when many Southerners were still openly and publicly racist, there still needs to continue to be massive improvement before the Republican politicians stop using dog whistles and continue to blatantly disenfranchise minority voters.

I think it is a shame that people are focusing on her symbolic use of language instead of any material discrimination or hostile workplace issues.
You mean like those she readily admits occurred in her brother's restaurant, which she is directly involved? Events which she readily admitted she felt no desire or need to intercede?

Paula Deen’s Brother Told Black Employee: ‘You People Are All The Same’

Now, a former employee is stepping forward to describe the painful racist attacks he endured as an African-American working in the kitchen of Paula’s brother Bubba Hiers‘ restaurant in Georgia.

“Bubba talked to me like I was trash,” Sheldon J Ervin, the oyster cook who worked under Bubba from 2008 to 2010 at Bubba’s Oyster House in Savannah, tells RadarOnline.com in an exclusive interview.

Of the racist behavior he witnessed, he says: “I’ve been trying to tell people about what kind of stuff was going over there and no one would listen to me. Paula was too powerful.”

In one instance, Bubba got mad at Sheldon over a small misunderstanding and things quickly turned racial.

“One day, Miss Paula had a book signing event at the restaurant and she gave me a signed picture for my grandmother because she was sick,” Sheldon explains.

“Her assistant put it on my station in the kitchen because I was in the middle of my shift, working. Bubba came in and saw the picture there and thought I was disrespecting Paula or something. He didn’t even let me explain before he started threatening my job.

“He talked to me like I was trash,” Sheldon remembers. “He disrespected me so bad. He didn’t use the ‘N’ word, but it was obvious he was talking around it because Lisa Jackson, the manager, was there watching.”

“Bubba said to me, ‘You people are all the same. You don’t appreciate it when people are trying to help you succeed in life. You’re always trying to make money off of people that are just trying to help you get ahead in the world.”

“I was so mad, I almost went to jail over that,” Sheldon recalls. “But I just kept telling myself, ‘Calm down. Don’t say nothing bad.’”

In another instance, one of Bubba’s favorite employees, a white man named Mike, was less circumspect with his racial assault on Sheldon.

“I got into it in the kitchen one day with a white dude named Mike,” Sheldon says. “I was trying to help him out where he was getting jammed during the rush, and he caught an attitude for some reason.”

“In front of everybody, he started yelling, ‘N****r’ this, ‘N****r that,” Sheldon remembers. “I’m thinking, OK, Paula and Bubba and Lisa are going to handle the situation. They sent him home, but he was right back at work the next day as if nothing happened.

“As time passed, I started getting madder and madder about how I was being treated, and I started complaining to Uncle Bubba and Lisa Jackson,” he says.

“They didn’t pay me no attention until finally they found some reason to get me out of there and get me fired.”

“I filed a suit,” Sheldon explains. “I went down to the [Equal Employment Opportunity Commission] and I filed a complaint and they did nothing about it. I took all the procedures I was supposed to take and it didn’t matter. I’ve been trying to tell people about what kind of stuff was going over there and no one would listen to me. Paula was too powerful.”

But now, in the court of public opinion, justice has finally come for Paula and Bubba. Says Sheldon, “I am just super happy.”
It is quite clear that her employers and sponsors are indeed now "focusing on" "material discrimination or hostile workplace issues". That it had much to do with their decisions to terminate her show and revoke her sponsorships.
 
I lived in Wisconsin for a year and my Lord people were so racist there and very open about it. Compared to the South I find out very racist. Many of the Southern states were not among the highest in the survey, and it is one survey.
 
It is quite clear that her employers and sponsors are indeed now "focusing on" "material discrimination or hostile workplace issues". That it had much to do with their decisions to terminate her show and revoke her sponsorships.

That's as may be, but it is not what the press or the general public is focused on. When the fourth estate focuses upon a symbolic gesture rather than material behaviors it implicitly states that what is important is the symbolism and use of language, rather than decisions that affect who is hired and retained. This emphasis is misplaced because the material issues are far more important in the long run because they have direct economic consequences upon the victims.
 
That's as may be, but it is not what the press or the general public is focused on. When the fourth estate focuses upon a symbolic gesture rather than material behaviors it implicitly states that what is important is the symbolism and use of language, rather than decisions that affect who is hired and retained. This emphasis is misplaced because the material issues are far more important in the long run because they have direct economic consequences upon the victims.

I thought they were focused on the "Plantation wedding" and the "I can't see you next to that board" remarks. That's what all the news stations I watched were focused on, anyway.
 
Back
Top Bottom