PH02: Eight Angry Men

[pholkhero]

Good turns, Fox. I thought Biz and Genghis would've been open for peace after a few more turns.

Is my computer messed up or are some pics missing? I can only see biz's paltry offer

 

[GreyFox]

Welcome back, Pholk.

@lobster: I don't think Monty will redeclare soon, as he is the one who pays money for peace. But to prevent that, one thing we could consider is to buy him into a war ... afterall, he did fight Bismarck once.


EDIT: try reloading, the pics should be up ... hosted by photobckets.
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[Munterpipe]

I have played, but you've got to wait a bit for the post. Sorry.

 

[Munterpipe]

This won't be long since I am short on time.
Bismarck had a lot of troops, but careful planning and positioning helped keeping our units alive.
Kept Otto at bay and finally made a push against the Buddhist holy city. Played 11 turns in order to capture it. To bad it hasn't got the shrine.

 

[pholkhero]

Munter, nothing wrong w/short and sweet!

Let's throw up a temple or 2 at Sparta (that's probably the best place for it, i think) and run a couple priests! Should we make peace or keep pushing?? I don't want to fall too behind in techs.

Also, if nothing else, i want to try and grab that one German city north of Athens where i wanted a GNP farm.

Monty-wise, i think a real smart move would be to completely remove him from our part of the continent and control access down here. I think that's Calix... up there right??

Frank > on deck
Pholk >
Fox >
Munter > just played
Lobster > UP NOW

 

[Lobsterboy]

Kept Otto at bay and finally made a push against the Buddhist holy city. Played 11 turns in order to capture it. To bad it hasn't got the shrine.

Sweet! I downloaded the save and will try to play tonight. I'm also up in SGOTM1 (yes, we haven't finished yet), but I think that I'll be able to play both. We shall see...

 

[pholkhero]

Lobster, no worries. (We're still playing too!) Also, look for TT03 tonight!

 

[Munterpipe]

Again, I would have done it longer if I had better time. Those eleven turns were really something to report about. Kill count was something like 20-6, and most of the casualties were taking Hamburg. It wasn't easy, but I used a lot of time when playing to make the best use of terrain and AI stupidity. All the clever tricks you never think of doing in SP was put into play. Using unit treats to an advantage, and enemy unit treats to a disadvantage for them.

I think the best place to put the temples for priests is not Sparta, but Athens. Athens is really all you want for a great people farm. Sparta needs to focus on commerce. Let's build the palace there soon, and revolt to beraucracy.

 

[Munterpipe]

BTW I need someone to teach me how to spell beurocrazy

 

[GreyFox]

Wow, I am really interested in seeing all those tricks you mentioned, and learn a few things here and there. Civ4 should have a "Record Play" feature, so that spectacles can watch how an exprt play. Will also be immensely useful for SGs.

Buerocrazy seems right.

 

[Munterpipe]

It wasn't anything magical, but just a lot of small things. In SP you get paranoid and attack anthing inside your borders ASAP. As an example, a HA was two tiles away from our southermost city defended by a lone Phalanx. Normally you would use the road, and attack right away to make sure it didn't pillage anything else. The city had hills and forests between the HA though, and I took time to consider that the HA would not be able to move and pillage on the same turn, and would not have the defense bonus from the terrain, so I decided to wait a turn and was able to kill the HA and go back in the city again without leaving the Phalanx in the open for an attack from Otto in the IBT. I also remembered to keep a Guerilla 2 Longbow with the SOD going for Hamburg both for defence on the way (those crossbows do can be bad news for CR maces), and to move into Hamburg after the siege (more important). The city is on a hill so guerilla is as good as garrison for that special occasion.
Late in my turnset, a German cat and mace pair got to a forest north of Athens and started bombarding our capital. Againg, I would normally panic when my capitol was under siege, but I figured that the mace would do no harm to our City defender 3 LB inside even with the defences down to 0, so I decided to not sacrifice any troops attackin the pair. (I think they are still there, but they are really no threat.)
All those small things are things you might or might not pay attention to normally, but are valuable in keeping casualties down, and therefore essential when playing difficulties on emperor.
I'm positive that I would have lost this game ages ago if playing it single player, but as I see it, we really have a good chance here.

 

[frankcor]

Well done, Munterpipe! And nice work with the guerilla promotion. I keep learning more and more.

"Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep..."


I'm on deck. I'll play tomorrow and post.

 

[Lobsterboy]

I opened up the save and took a look around. Having the Buddhist Holy City allows us to view Bismarck's troop deployments, and here is what we see:



Bismarck has a total of 6 Knights, 1 Horser Archer and a Pikeman that he can throw at Hamburg in the IBT. (The is another Knight in Frankfurt to the SW.) As you can see, aside from Munter's inspired Guerrila II promoted Longbow, Hamburg is pretty lightly defended. I could move the anti-Horse Phalanx to the SW into the city in an attempt to hold it, but that would mean the certain defeat of our weakened CR Macemen there. Doing so, however, *might* allow us to continue the war and attempt to take either Dortmund to the NW or Franfurt to the SW. Frankfurt, in particular, would be a good addition to our empire, as it would definitely reduce the German cultural pressure on Hamburg and would give us, finally, access to Horses (more about that below). If we don't claim Frankfurt, and end the war now, we may lose Hamburg to cultural pressure anyway.

So the question is, do we end the war now, or let the dice roll and hope that we can hold off Bismarck's counterattack?

Here is Bismarck's best offer:



Unfortunately, he is not willing to give us any techs.

Regarding Horses, some are still unclaimed in the West. Mao, however, already has one settlement there and he or Genghis will probably plant another one to claim the Horses within the next 10-15 turns. If it's Genghis, no problem, but if it's Mao, we could be in for another war to claim them.

 

[pholkhero]

I think we need to continue onward a bit. We can't lose Hamburg, can we, since we just captured it? Isn't that one of the rules? You can't lose a city to culture flip to the civ you just took it from...

hmm...Cologne looks like it has the bulk of Biz's army. Perhaps we should build up a bit (maybe take peace for that) and then capture Dortmund and Frankfurt and raze Cologne?? what sort of troops are at "Dort und Frank"?

 

[GreyFox]

Damned, Bismarck has a GProphet sleeping in Berlin and did not build the shrine?

Seeing Guids, we already have Music, right? Can we bribe Monty into war with Bismarck? That should take some pressure off us.

Yep, we shouldn't lose Hamburg to culural flip, but it will starve to death ... we need to take out Frankfurt to ease the cultural pressure. I think we can rid ethis through with at least Frankfurt taken, if we play it right. Current forces should reinforce Hamburg, while we whip more units and bring them up front to take Frankfurt.

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[Lobsterboy]

I think we need to continue onward a bit. We can't lose Hamburg, can we, since we just captured it? Isn't that one of the rules? You can't lose a city to culture flip to the civ you just took it from...

Eh? I could have sworn it's happened to me... Anyway, my immediate worry is losing Hamburg to counterattack.

what sort of troops are at "Dort und Frank"?

Not much. Dortmund has 3 Longbows. Frankfurt has a Knight, a Longbow and one other unit. If we can hold onto Hamburg, Frankfurt is definitive doable soonish.

 

[Lobsterboy]

Damned, Bismarck has a GProphet sleeping in Berlin and did not build the shrine?

Yeah! I meant to mention that!

Seeing Guids, we already have Music, right? Can we bribe Monty into war with Bismarck? That should take some pressure off us.

Nope. I checked with Napoleon, Toku and Mao too. No soap.

Yep, we shouldn't lose Hamburg to culural flip

How the hell can I not know this?!?

If we lose Hamburg to counterattack, I don't know that we'll be able to take it back easily. Biz has some Longbows he can spare to defend it which will arrive before any of our troops.

 

[GreyFox]

It will be disaster if we lose hamburg back ...

... cos that means no more Big Mac and Happy Meals for Greeks!

er, no, I mean, that means hamburg will immediately get back its huge cultural defense. I think we need to reinforce hamburg with all the closeby greeks troops, and ride out the counteratack, meanwhile bring fresh units in to take out Frankfurt.

I am not too inteested in Dortmund, its too damn close to Monty for my comfort.

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[Lobsterboy]

The only troops with movement points left are the Phalanx to the SW. Moving him into the city probably will mean sacrificing the Macemen he is guarding, including the only Medic we have in the area.

Unless we declare Peace.

Yeah, I had already decided that Dortmund was worthless unless we take our Monty's city to the N.

 

[pholkhero]

The shrine may've been destroyed when we Munter took the city.

@ GreyFox: i see what you mean about Dortmund, but if we eventually take some of those northern cities from Monty, Dortmund will jut into our empire like a man sticking his tongue out!! It's closeness to Monty is exactly WHY i want it. It'll make a) a nice focal point for his attacks and b)a nice jumping off point for ours.

Also, aren't culture borders multiples of 20?? If so, that means Cologne and Essen have walls and so there may not be a ton of culture pressure on Hamburg . . . at least from that side. It also means Dortmund has walls and a castle probably.