PH02: Eight Angry Men

[GreyFox]

@munter: ... okay, you converted me. Its the GreyFoxTown that converted me, mind you!!! Gems is insignificant in the scale of our vast empire. But to capture Monty's city, we need lots of cannons. That's what converted me, because we could be research banking while building tons of cannons.

@frankcor: Of-course we have Academy in Sparta. And in Athens, and in Karakorum as well. That's why I suggest lightbubling. And, lightbulbing is generally more beneficial this late in the game compared to academy. Academy adds only 50% (and it only apply to raw beakers). So, assuming you can find a city without academy producing 30 raw commerce, the benefit of academy is only 15 beakers per turn max. To overtake the benefit of ightbulbing which gives 2700 beakers, its takes 180 turns .

--

 

[Munterpipe]

@frankcor: Of-course we have Academy in Sparta. And in Athens, and in Karakorum as well. That's why I suggest lightbubling. And, lightbulbing is generally more beneficial this late in the game compared to academy. Academy adds only 50% (and it only apply to raw beakers). So, assuming you can find a city without academy producing 30 raw commerce, the benefit of academy is only 15 beakers per turn max. To overtake the benefit of ightbulbing which gives 2700 beakers, its takes 180 turns .

--

That's partly why I don't understand why you merged the other great scientist we had during your turns.

 

[frankcor]

GreyFox turning into a warmonger? :gasp:

Thanks for doing the arithmetic for me. Lightbulb it is!

 

[Lobsterboy]

I guess this means that I'm up. I downloaded the save, but I may not be able to get to it tonight. If not tonight, definitely tomorrow night.

 

[GreyFox]

@Munter: RE: joining vs academy vs lightbulb.

Firstly, joining the city is different from building the academy, acamedy adds 50% to raw beakers, so its great for high commerce cities but waste for low commerce city. Most of our high commerce cities already had academy. Joining adds +6 raw beakers without representation I think. But I do agree that even counting in the 75% boost is nothing spectacular at all.

Secondly, and more importantly, the scientist is going to learn us scienticfic methods next, I believe, which is frankly, useless for us at this stage and it obsolete the monastries.

But I could have save him for a Golden Age. Hmm ... perhaps its a after all

.

 

[Munterpipe]

If we had used both to lightbulb the PP, would there have been overflow? I guess not.

But a golden age would have been nice, in order to get our millitary cranking. Nothing to be done about that now anyway, but let's consider that in the future. If a great person doesn't lightbulb anything especcially good. I think a golden age is the way to go at the moment.

 

[pholkhero]

great discussion all. what can i say that hasn't already been said?

I have a Deviant Mind!! Do you?

I thikn going for monty sooner rather than later is the smarter move since we all know HE will come after us before too long. it would be better to take the fight to him, when we're prepared then to be caught off-gaurd, but with plenty of banks

 

[Lobsterboy]

Secondly, and more importantly, the scientist is going to learn us scienticfic methods next, I believe, which is frankly, useless for us at this stage and it obsolete the monastries.

Quite true. Eventually, however, we will need to research Scientific Method (for Physics -> Electricity -> Industrialization (Tanks!)) so using the GS to "lightbulb" us part of the way there would not have been a waste.

FYI, I will play tonight.

 

[Lobsterboy]

How long before Monty declares on us? Hopefully it won't be during this turn set!

Inherited Turn (1750 AD)
Everything looks fine. Let's hope we can crank out some Grenadiers!
Switch one tile in Athens - farm -> mine - to advance production of Aqueduct from 18 to 11 turns. Athens is now starving, however.(-2F/turn).

Stuttgart was working farm tiles (2 food, 1 commerce) instead of coastal tiles (2 food, 2 commerce). I found us another 3 GP/turn!

Use GS to lightbulb toward Printing Press. PP drops from 14 to 4 turns.


Turn 1 (1752 AD)
Harappan finishes: Buddhist Missionary --> Grenadier(7)
Karakoram finishes: University --> Grenadier(8)
Buddhist Missionary succeeds! Buddhism spreads to Tabriz!
Raise Research to 40% drops Printing Press to 2 turns (- 2 GP/turn).


Turn 2 (1754 AD)
Dortmund finishes: Library --> Barracks (2)


Turn 3 (1756 AD)
Technology discovered: Printing Press --> Steel (21). We can discover Banking in 5 turns. I'm tempted to take it, but deciced to stick with the plan as discussed. So far, only Mao has Cannon.
We now have positive income (+10/turn) with Research at 40%!
Cologne finishes: Lighthouse --> Courthouse (18)
Buddhist Missionary succeeds! Buddhism spreads to Hangzhou (Chinese)!
Beshbalik finishes: University --> Grenadier (9)

Someone has discovered Democracy, as we are now suffering Emancipation penalties. Bummer.

Monty adopts Representation. He still doesn't have Chemistry.


Turn 4 (1758 AD)
Our best pal Mao drops by with a proposal:



Our map is already pretty good, so I decline.

Turfan finishes: Library --> Grenadier (10)
Dortmund finishes: Barracks --> Grenadier (9)


Turn 5 (1760 AD)
Peace Treaty with Napoleon expires.
Thermopylae finishes: Grenadier --> Grenadier (2)Courtesy of a forest chop.
Tabriz finishes: Granary --> Courthouse (30)


Turn 6 (1772 AD)
Sparta finishes: Grenadier --> Grenadier (7)
Karakoram finishes: Grenadier --> Grocer (10)
Turfan finishes: Granary --> Grenadier (10)


Turn 7 (1774 AD)
Thermopylae finishes: Grenadier --> Grenadier (4)
Frankfurt finishes: Granary --> Library (16)
Julius completes Statue of Liberty


Turn 8 (1776 AD)
Harappan finishes: Grenadier --> Grenadier (8)


Turn 9 (1778 AD)
Napoleon comes begging.




PFFT! I decline. Instead, I trade him Gold for 5 GP/turn.



Turn 10 (1780 AD)
Tiflis finishes: Lighthouse --> Library (45)

As soon as we get Steel, we might want to consider trading it to Julius for something. He is not friendly with Monty or Toku, so I don't think he will trade it.

Demographically, production is good, but income is still lousy - someone, probably Mao is earning nearly 10X more/turn than us!



Power is also poor. Monty's stacks in Dusseldorf and Calixtlcoatliskidoodle don't appear to have grown, so he must be hoarding troops back within his empire.



Here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/PH02_AD-1770.Civ4SavedGame

 

[GreyFox]

Good turns, printing press seems to help our economy a bit. But 21 turns to steel? Damned ...

Did you try extorting Bismarck?

-

 

[Lobsterboy]

Did you try extorting Bismarck?

He'll talk to us, but not about his giving any tech to us.

 

[frankcor]

It looks like I'm up next. I think our plan is to keep building grenadiers and then some canons when the tech comes in.

I'm going out to dinner this evening and I'm up in another SG before this one so it's unlikely I can play and post before tomorrow night. If anyone wants to cut in ahead of me in the mean time, feel free.

 

[pholkhero]

nice going ~ way to juggle SGs LB

Monty's jump in power may only be him upgrading his troops.

Frank > UP NOW
Munter > on deck
Pholk >
Fox >
Lobster > just played

 

[Lobsterboy]

BTW: I think we still need 2-3 more Universities before we can build Oxford in Sparta. Thermopylae can finish one in ~ 9 turns, and I don't think that we've built them in Athens and Hamburg yet, but they are obvious choices (although Hamburg is still only size 4-5). I didn't put them in the builds because I thought building up our army should take priority. Now that we have a some Grenadiers, however, try to slip them in. I positioned a worker outside of Therm. for another forest chop (I labelled him). We might consider putting those Hammers into a Uni. rather than more military when the time comes.

 

[frankcor]

Okay, I've got it. I plan to post in less than 24 hours. Good idea, Lobsterboy on the universities. I'll try to slip some in.

 

[GreyFox]

We are slowly catching up in terms of economy ... and universities is nice idea. Keep looking for forests inter-sparsed between cities' BFCs to chop. There bound to be some left.

--

 

[Lobsterboy]

We are slowly catching up in terms of economy ... and universities is nice idea. Keep looking for forests inter-sparsed between cities' BFCs to chop. There bound to be some left.

--

Yes. In addition to the Worker outside of Thermo. , we have two others in the west doing the same (near Karakoram and the cities in the far SW).

 

[frankcor]

I played 10, totally uninspired builder turns but did manage to crank out a bunch of Grenadiers too. I kept our workers busy chopping forests, all outside any city fat-cross. I also built some roads in forests that will someday (wish, wish, wish) have lumbermills built in them.

I keep thinking we had optics? Well, when Beshbalik completed a work boat, I immediately began work on a 2nd one (2 turns) intending to build fishing nets on the fish southwest of there. DOH! There were already fishing nets there I learned, so I disbanned the second work boat to save 2 gold/turn maintenance. Then I discovered we have yet to discover Optics??? There's a workboat parked in Corinth anticipating the time in the future (wish, wish, wish) when they can go out and kill whales. This is my of the turnset.

Spoiler Gory Details :

Inherited Turn (1770 AD)
Athens finishes: Aqueduct
Thermopylae finishes: Grenadier
Cologne grows: 6

IBT:

o/~ Bis - mark is hope - less -- neener neener neener o/~
o/~ Bis - mark is hope - less -- neener neener neener o/~

Turn 1 (1772 AD)
Athens begins: Courthouse
Thermopylae begins: University
Beshbalik finishes: Grenadier
Dortmund's borders expand

Turn 2 (1774 AD)
Sparta finishes: Grenadier
Karakorum finishes: Grocer
Corinth grows: 9
Hamburg finishes: Courthouse
Turfan finishes: Grenadier
Dortmund finishes: Grenadier

Turn 3 (1776 AD)
Sparta begins: Courthouse
Karakorum begins: Grenadier
Hamburg begins: University
Turfan begins: University
Dortmund begins: University
Harappan grows: 11
Beshbalik finishes: Work Boat
Hamburg grows: 6
Old Sarai finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 4 (1778 AD)
Beshbalik begins: Work Boat
Old Sarai begins: Forge
Stuttgart grows: 4

Turn 5 (1780 AD)
Louis Pasteur (Great Scientist) born in Athens

Thermopylae finishes: University
Harappan finishes: Grenadier
Beshbalik finishes: Work Boat
Old Sarai grows: 5

Turn 6 (1782 AD)
Thermopylae begins: Grenadier
Harappan begins: University
Beshbalik begins: Harbor
Grenadier promoted: Guerilla I
Thermopylae finishes: Grenadier
Corinth finishes: University
Frankfurt grows: 6

IBT:
Islam has spread: Karakorum

Turn 7 (1784 AD)
Thermopylae begins: Buddhist Monastery
Corinth begins: Catapult
Cologne's borders expand

IBT: Uhoh, here comes the Bismark the Hopeless. Run for your lives! bwaahhh hah hah hah

What a goof.

Turn 8 (1786 AD)
Sparta finishes: Courthouse
Karakorum finishes: Grenadier

Turn 9 (1788 AD)
Sparta begins: Grenadier
Karakorum begins: Buddhist Monastery
Sparta grows: 13
Thermopylae finishes: Buddhist Monastery
Tiflis grows: 4
Frankfurt's borders expand
Cologne finishes: Courthouse

Turn 10 (1790 AD)
Thermopylae begins: Grenadier
Cologne begins: Forge

I used binary research and Steel will be coming next turn but that's at 0% on the science slider. Next player remember to crank it back up next turn. There's a few catapults started that will convert to canon, I hope.

What's next to research? We can get Optics in 4 turns, Banking in 5, Replaceable Parts in 12. We popped a great scientist and I burned him on Scientific Method. We can research that in 9 turns. I started some Buddhist Monastaries just in case we get some time to build missionairies for Hamburg's shrine.

Oh, and Napoleon declared war against us.

The save is here: PH02_AD-1790.Civ4SavedGame.

 

[GreyFox]

You burned the GS??? I thought munterpipe made it very clear we should save him for GAge? Heh, frank, I sugest you prepare for the drunken rage from munter!

Good turns, you made the smoke I did with optics.

--

 

[Munterpipe]

What!?! You burned the GS!?!?!?
Seriously, I'm happy that we are ready to go to war soon. Monty, here I come!
(I got it)