Pop 8 ruled unconstitutional by 9th Circuit panel!

[mrt144]

Just want to point one thing out: We don't hate you guys. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Can you hate the sin and let God rectify it later, instead of imposing God's judgment here on earth, in the now, with secular laws? Please?

 

[kramerfan86]

Just want to point one thing out: We don't hate you guys. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

See you say that but that statement is grossly insulting and possibly destructive. How do you think a teenage person who naturally feels gay feels when people like you tell them their natural feelings are a nasty little sin to be hated? Telling someone who they are is wrong and morally reprehensible is a terrible thing to do no matter how much you try to spin it as caring about them.

 

[warpus]

See you say that but that statement is grossly insulting and possibly destructive. How do you think a teenage person who naturally feels gay feels when people like you tell them their natural feelings are a nasty little sin to be hated? Telling someone who they are is wrong and morally reprehensible is a terrible thing to do no matter how much you try to spin it as caring about them.

Well said.

 

[kochman]

See you say that but that statement is grossly insulting and possibly destructive. How do you think a teenage person who naturally feels gay feels when people like you tell them their natural feelings are a nasty little sin to be hated? Telling someone who they are is wrong and morally reprehensible is a terrible thing to do no matter how much you try to spin it as caring about them.

He's just talking about his opinion, I think.
Not saying he's on a campaign to push his point of view on teenagers, etc...

 

[kramerfan86]

He's just talking about his opinion, I think.
Not saying he's on a campaign to push his point of view on teenagers, etc...

And I am just saying that spouting that mindset is almost as bad as just straightup telling gay people you hate them because telling people you despise what they are is really pretty close to saying that anyways even if he personally isnt going around telling people the viewpoint he is trying to argue for.

 

[RobAnybody]

Just want to point one thing out: We don't hate you guys. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Have you ever had communion? If so, I just wanted to let you know that I hate your symbolic cannibalism. Eating the flesh & drinking the blood of your savior? Creepy. No offense to you, the cannibal, I just find your cannibalism gross.

 

[kochman]

And I am just saying that spouting that mindset is almost as bad as just straightup telling gay people you hate them because telling people you despise what they are is really pretty close to saying that anyways even if he personally isnt going around telling people the viewpoint he is trying to argue for.

I don't agree. Posting it on the internet is bad, perhaps, but it is passive...
People don't have to look at what he says.

If he were to just accost some poor teenage puff who's minding his own business then it would be a problem.

Also, he isn't saying he despises them, but that what they are doing is wrong... except he doesn't even really tell them, he thinks it.

See the point? You are kind of exaggerating and turning into "thought police".

Have you ever had communion? If so, I just wanted to let you know that I hate your symbolic cannibalism. Eating the flesh & drinking the blood of your savior? Creepy. No offense to you, the cannibal, I just find your cannibalism gross.

Does it have to turn into 5th grade level insults?

 

[warpus]

Does it have to turn into 5th grade level insults?

It's on the same level as "hate the gayness but not teh gay"

 

[useless]

And I am just saying that spouting that mindset is almost as bad as just straightup telling gay people you hate them because telling people you despise what they are is really pretty close to saying that anyways even if he personally isnt going around telling people the viewpoint he is trying to argue for.

This. This a 100%. I'm sorry Ferris, but as Kramerfan has alluded to above, "Hate the Sin lover the Sinner" basically translates to "I hate something that is an intrinsic part of you and everything to do with it, but I don't hate you personally". That's still hate, even if it's not about the person persay. It just doesn't translate in practise, because this can lead to LGBT people feeling like they themselves are scum and lesser people.

Also this isn't just an individual's view, this is society's view of LGBT people. Just because there's the "liberal media" (which re-inforces LGBT stereotypes) and that there are more of "them" out doesn't make the fact that being gay even in America is a pretty tough deal.

 

[kramerfan86]

I am not simply talking about him specifically, he may or may not say it to anyone. I am talking about and insulting that mindset in general. It is the same mindset some of our politicians like Santorum run off of.

And Im sorry, you really cant say that someone's mindset is an abomination but claim you love them. We are people, who we are is the person for all intents and purposes. If you despise who someone is, you despise the person essentially. We arent talking about a simple sin of action like stealing or murder, we are talking about a "sin" of personality.

 

[useless]

See the point? You are kind of exaggerating and turning into "thought police".

Once you put such a view out in public (aka telling anyone) it's no longer a "thought".

 

[kochman]

This. This a 100%. I'm sorry Ferris, but as Kramerfan has alluded to above, "Hate the Sin lover the Sinner" basically translates to "I hate something that is an intrinsic part of you and everything to do with it, but I don't hate you personally". That's still hate, even if it's not about the person persay. It just doesn't translate in practise, because this can lead to LGBT people feeling like they themselves are scum and lesser people.

Also this isn't just an individual's view, this is society's view of LGBT people. Just because there's the "liberal media" (which re-inforces LGBT stereotypes) and that there are more of "them" out doesn't make the fact that being gay even in America is a pretty tough deal.

Nonsense.
You can dislike what someone does without judging them. Example, I know people who use hard drugs.
I wish they wouldn't, but it's their life/choice, so big deal... I'm not here to judge them, and I certainly don't hate them.

"Some of my best friends are gay", I don't care what they do when alone with someone... I personally find the idea of man on man to be physically repulsive, but so what? There are certainly gays who find the idea of man on woman to be physically repulsive... that doesn't make them bigots.

@Kramerfan
There is a pretty big space between disliking something and thinking it is an "abomination". Did I miss someone calling homosexual acts that here?
You're really exaggerating... but at least you were honest that you do, in fact, subscribe to thought police activities, when you said even if a person only has it in their mind it is wrong.

Moderator Action: Saying that someone subscribes to thought police activities is trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[kramerfan86]

Once again though homosexuality isnt a simple action like drugs or violence, it is a deep part of who someone is.

 

[vypernight]

The thing is that, ultimately, it's not a religious argument at all. It's just dressed up in religion to make it sellable. There are always people with prejudices and always people who discriminate. They need a reason and a target to do what they would choose to do in any event.

Oh I know. I don't hate religion. I just hate when people use their religion to push their hypocritical, bigoted views onto other people. Slamming a group of people whose personal lives affect no one else is just one example.

 

[useless]

But you are still judging them Kochman.

 

[kochman]

Once again though homosexuality isnt a simple action like drugs or violence, it is a deep part of who someone is.

Drug abuse and violence can be as well...
People who abuse drugs often have chemical imbalances, etc...
People who are violent often have a history of having violence inflicted upon them...
Both are just as deep in my opinion.

 

[kochman]

But you are still judging them Kochman.

Um... no, I am not.
Hypersensitivity to such issues is understandable, but it isn't productive.

 

[useless]

Nonsense.
You can dislike what someone does without judging them. Example, I know people who use hard drugs.
I wish they wouldn't, but it's their life/choice, so big deal... I'm not here to judge them, and I certainly don't hate them.

Your own words bro

 

[kochman]

Your own words bro

You don't understand the difference between people's actions and actual people bro?

 

[Leonel]

Oh no! Now everyone's going to be government mandated to marry a member of the same sex!