Putin actually good for US

[Bulldog Bats]

Some thing that I have been discussing with friends - what Putin is doing may be good for the US internationally in the long run. During the Cold War, other countries may not have liked us, but they kind of needed us. The two superpowers balanced each other out.

Since the fall of the USSR, there has not been any country on the world stage on the same level. Some people didn't want the US poking their nose around the world, because we were the only real big guy left.

It is my opinion that Putin wants to re-form the Soviet Union, or some version, and take control of vast parts of Asia and eastern Europe. As others have said in other threads, he may be dangerous, but he is not crazy or stupid.

Thoughts?

 

[gay_Aleks]

Stalin wasn't crazy or insane when he took control of the Soviet Union, either.

 

[warpus]

Is OP's argument really "it's better to have two jerks instead of one, because then the jerks will be busy screwing with eachother?"

I guess it worked during the cold war, sort of..

 

[gay_Aleks]

Is OP's argument really "it's better to have two jerks instead of one, because then the jerks will be busy screwing with eachother?"

I guess it worked during the cold war, sort of..

Except for the part that for some 45 years they threatened to destroy the world seven times over with nuclear missiles, and at times like the Cuban Missile Crisis we came off very close to being blasted to pieces?

And the split of the world by an Iron Curtain which separated and still separates the world in two (before, in capitalist and communist countries, but now, in developed and backwards hellholes with no real government)?

Yeah, totally worked out, you guys.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

Never said either is a jerk. The US sees/saw itself as the guardian of freedom. Some countries were greatful, some just wanted it to butt out - my opinion on that is irrelevant.

For the most part, the US has been viewed, and acted, in a positive manner, and was arguably the tipping point in both world wars, as well as the counter to the USSR in the Cold War.

If Putin continues, I would bet the world opinion of the US will go up, since a counter will be needed, or he will continue to grap countries.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Never said either is a jerk. The US sees/saw itself as the guardian of freedom. Some countries were greatful, some just wanted it to butt out - my opinion on that is irrelevant.

For the most part, the US has been viewed, and acted, in a positive manner, and was arguably the tipping point in both world wars, as well as the counter to the USSR in the Cold War.

If Putin continues, I would bet the world opinion of the US will go up, since a counter will be needed, or he will continue to grap countries.

Tipping point of both world wars? That could be argued. I am in a no way Dachs on that topic, but I believe that some other countries gave a whole lot more casualties in both World Wars (see: Eastern Front, France during WWI, French Resistance, Polish Resistance, etc etc.).

 

[warpus]

For the most part, the US has been viewed, and acted, in a positive manner

That's not really true though. There are a lot of people around the world who hate the U.S. for taking down democratic institutions, installing dictators, supporting dictators, interfering with local politics, the economy, and so on.

So it's sort of opposite - for the most part the U.S. has acted like a jerk - but we do have to be grateful to them for butting heads with the Russians, being decisive helpers in both world wars, and so on.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

In recent years, the US has been viewed in more of a negative manner - that was exactly my point, that it was sticking its head where is was not wanted/needed.

As to the prior post, how is number of casualties a measure of effective aid in a war? Regardless, neither world war was fought on US soil, and the US did not enter either war at the start. But in both wars, both the manpower and financial aid clearly were a major reason the Allies took control.

 

[gay_Aleks]

So, sticking it's head into Russia is a completely sane decision that won't backfire?

You know what happened to the last 2 guys who decided to do the same?

Yeah, me too. Me too.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

And the alternative is what? The world letting him pick off countries until he gets his fill?

 

[Kyriakos]

Putin can play the role of Eurasia.

But the US still needs Goldstein as well.

 

[gay_Aleks]

No, wait until his successors mess up his country so badly that it collapses into different independent countries, as it happened after the Cold War, and after the full collapse of Tsarist Russia (until they were rightfully returned to their original owner. Or Russia).

Hear my words; the only one who can destroy Russia is Russia itself.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

Sure, just like Germany. Let him take everything he wants. Nothing bad can come of that.

 

[gay_Aleks]

So. We have two variants:

A) Invade Russia, a nation notorious for being damn hard to invade

B) Leave Europe to Russia until it implodes. And besides, do you think that Russia can match an unified European Union? In economy and military?

 

[Formaldehyde]

It is my opinion that Putin wants to re-form the Soviet Union, or some version, and take control of vast parts of Asia and eastern Europe.

At least, unlike many, you are willing to openly admit it.

As others have said in other threads, he may be dangerous, but he is not crazy or stupid.

And yet here you are claiming that he would be do what many would consider to be quite "crazy" and "stupid" acts, which is quite likely what Putin himself would claim if you suggested it to him.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

I never said invade Russia - Hitler, Napolean etc. can attest to that. But I do think that something will have to be done. Sticking one's head in the sand is also not the answer. Also,

1. I don't know if I would call Europe unified.
2. A largely unified Europe didn't work in WW1 or WW2.

And I never claimed anything he is doing is either stupid or crazy. I think he is taking as much power as he can, especially if there is no resistance.

 

[gay_Aleks]

See, this is the problem with Russia - we neither can invade it, and sanctions won't exactly work.

Also, Europe WAS NOT united during WWI/WWII. Unless you think that the Allies and Axis worked together against the communists?

 

[Bulldog Bats]

I said largely united, and I don't exactly see it as being either an economic or military superpower as it is. That is why Putin is moving in - no one to stop him.

Not exactly the same, but Hitler swallowed up countries while everyone sat with their thumbs up their butts, sayin', just let him have that - he was some rights to the land anyway (or so he says). Maybe if we let him take a little land, he'll be satisfied.

When your only strategy to an invader is to hope they will mess up and fail on your own ...

 

[gay_Aleks]

He took Sudetenland. And Austria. That's... two countries. About that much. Plus the Prussian territories, which for some reason after the Versailles actually didn't take.

Then he decided to invade Poland. And, as they say, the rest is history.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

Yes, he decided to invade Poland in when - 1939? It only took how many years and lives, and only when how many other countries got together to stop him? And thank God he was a moron as a military leader.