Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[grizly]

Hello,
I am a real noob in this game and I have 4 questions (at least for now:

1) How to make an army quickly? I know there is the whipping strategy (which unfortunately I still didn't completely understand), but without using it, How do you make units fast?
Usually I make only 2-3 production cities in the start of the game, and have the others as GP farms or commerce cities so my economy and research won't be damaged by the war and with only 3 cities making army, I always find it difficult to make a big army. Should I use all my cities to make units when I want to declare war?

2) I read an article in this website called: "hammer overflow" http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/hammer_overflow.php
English is not my mother tongue and there is a definition there I don't get:
Production Multiplier - The production bonus applied to a build converted from a percent + 1
I do actually understand every single word, but I still can't understand it. can someone give me a different explanation and an example of actual calculation (an example only will be great)?

3) If you whip more than one population in a city, doesn't it damage you in the long term? I read that the optimal whipping point is when you have enough food to grow your city a turn after the whip, but if you whip more than one population, you still have to wait some turns until the city grows back, and in the meantime you can't work on some tiles you could work on before the whip. So isn't damaging you in the long run?

4) Whipping means converting food to production. since it's much easier to make tons of food, isn't it better to make tons of food and whip instead of making mines in production cities? Or maybe the unhappiness will get too big?

Any other tips on whipping will be greatly appreciated and also any important guide that I should read and you can link me (or at least tell me its name) will be appreciated as well.

Thank you very much for reading, hope you can help me get better

 

[Samson]

Hello,
I am a real noob in this game and I have 4 questions (at least for now:

1) How to make an army quickly? I know there is the whipping strategy (which unfortunately I still didn't completely understand), but without using it, How do you make units fast?
Usually I make only 2-3 production cities in the start of the game, and have the others as GP farms or commerce cities so my economy and research won't be damaged by the war and with only 3 cities making army, I always find it difficult to make a big army. Should I use all my cities to make units when I want to declare war?

Generally not, except perhaps in the early game. Your production cities should be optimised for production and your GP/commerce cities should be optimised for that, so will not be good for producing units. You could make more production cities, or make them better probably.

2) I read an article in this website called: "hammer overflow" http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/hammer_overflow.php
English is not my mother tongue and there is a definition there I don't get:
Production Multiplier - The production bonus applied to a build converted from a percent + 1
I do actually understand every single word, but I still can't understand it. can someone give me a different explanation and an example of actual calculation (an example only will be great)?

This is the same as Production Multiplier for all production. If you have 100 hammers (from overflow, tiles or whipping) and a forge (+25% production) you get 125 hammers towards the project (25% + 1 = 1.25, 1.25 * 100 = 125).

3) If you whip more than one population in a city, doesn't it damage you in the long term? I read that the optimal whipping point is when you have enough food to grow your city a turn after the whip, but if you whip more than one population, you still have to wait some turns until the city grows back, and in the meantime you can't work on some tiles you could work on before the whip. So isn't damaging you in the long run?

As with so much in this game, it depends. If this is the early game, and your city cannot grow above 6 without becoming unhappy you may well want to always whip more than 1 pop. You only get 1 happiness (same as if you whipped 1) and get to convert more food to hammers. If it is a big city, perhaps without happiness problems, you probably want to minimise the amount of whipping, and when you do not whip too many people.

4) Whipping means converting food to production. since it's much easier to make tons of food, isn't it better to make tons of food and whip instead of making mines in production cities? Or maybe the unhappiness will get too big?

Any other tips on whipping will be greatly appreciated and also any important guide that I should read and you can link me (or at least tell me its name) will be appreciated as well.

Thank you very much for reading, hope you can help me get better

It is usually frequently better to use hills as well as whipping. Frequently the happiness is what makes the difference, or shortage of food.

 

[grizly]

@Samson

As with so much in this game, it depends. If this is the early game, and your city cannot grow above 6 without becoming unhappy you may well want to always whip more than 1 pop. You only get 1 happiness (same as if you whipped 1) and get to convert more food to hammers. If it is a big city, perhaps without happiness problems, you probably want to minimise the amount of whipping, and when you do not whip too many people.

It's still doesn't make sense to me. You say that early in the game, when my city can't grow over 6 without becoming unhappy, I should always try to whip more than 1 population, so I convert maximum food to hammers while causing minimum unhappiness. that much I understand, but if I do that then I won't be able to whip many times (since I will have to wait for the population to grow) and therefore it will offer me only a little advantage. On the other hand, in big cities, you say I should minimize the amount of whipping.
I read here many times that whipping is a very powerful tactic and that people whip constantly.
How are they able to whip so many times with those restrictions?
Another thing about whipping- I guess that in the early game, when I can't go over 6 population, it will make sense to whip in all cities, including production cities and GP farms. But when that is gone and I can go over 6 population should I ever whip on my GP farms or in my commerce cities? because it seems to me that the answer is no, Since those cities shouldn't worry about production. Is that correct?

Thank you very much

 

[Abegweit]

When going to war, all of your cities should be contributing to the effort. Generally a whip for 2 or 3 pop is optimal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a size 15 city and driving it into the ground. It's usually good tactics in fact.

When you're not at war, your production cities can deliver whatever units you need while your commerce cities are allowed to grow as Samson said.

One good whip trick which is especially effective with axemen or units slightly more expensive like cats. Put 1-4 hammers into the axe (work high food or comm tiles if need be to limit the hammers), then whip it out the next turn. On that one your hammer investment should be high.

The overflow will give a second axe on the following turn. Two axes in three turns Do that a couple of times in a half-dozen cities and you have an instant army. The reason why it has to be 1-4 hammers is because if there's more invested, you will only whip for 1 pop and thus not get much overflow. It has to be a 2-pop whip.

 

[Samson]

@Samson


It's still doesn't make sense to me. You say that early in the game, when my city can't grow over 6 without becoming unhappy, I should always try to whip more than 1 population, so I convert maximum food to hammers while causing minimum unhappiness. that much I understand, but if I do that then I won't be able to whip many times (since I will have to wait for the population to grow) and therefore it will offer me only a little advantage.

This is assuming that you can grow at more than 1 pop per 10 turns (on standard speed, the length of time it takes for wipping unhappiness to run out). You basicly want to be whipping what you can grow back in the appropriate time.

On the other hand, in big cities, you say I should minimize the amount of whipping.
I read here many times that whipping is a very powerful tactic and that people whip constantly.
How are they able to whip so many times with those restrictions?

I THINK they mean contstantly whipping when the unhappiness runs out. I do this when I have more food than happiness.

Another thing about whipping- I guess that in the early game, when I can't go over 6 population, it will make sense to whip in all cities, including production cities and GP farms. But when that is gone and I can go over 6 population should I ever whip on my GP farms or in my commerce cities? because it seems to me that the answer is no, Since those cities shouldn't worry about production. Is that correct?

Thank you very much

You would want to whip those cities when you either do not have the happiness to support the growth rate, or you desperatly need the commerce buildings (eg. if you have just got currency and are in a hole finacially you may want to whip markets).

 

[grizly]

@Samson

OK now it makes much more sense, thank you

On a completely different matter, I have some problem on deciding what to research in the mid and in the late game as well. In the start of the game I know how to choose which technology to research and when, but then somewhere after construction I find the variety of options quite overwhelming. Now I don't ask you to give me some magic technology path, don't get me wrong, but can you give me some guidelines (f.e: what are the best options if I want to be a warmonger or some guidelines maybe by other criterion like which victory condition I want to go for or simply how you choose what to research) or maybe link me a good guide about that?

thanks again

 

[grizly]

@abegweit

When going to war, all of your cities should be contributing to the effort.

But if all cities make units, won't my research and economy take a big hit? I might have a great army to win my war, but don't you think that the side effect which I will suffer on my research and economy will benefit a third civ which will be able to gain an advantage over me?

Generally a whip for 2 or 3 pop is optimal

Do you mean that I should whip every time my city grows by 2-3 population or that I should whip only 2-3 population every time?

One good whip trick which is especially effective with axemen or units slightly more expensive like cats. Put 1-4 hammers into the axe (work high food or comm tiles if need be to limit the hammers), then whip it out the next turn. On that one your hammer investment should be high.

The overflow will give a second axe on the following turn. Two axes in three turns Do that a couple of times in a half-dozen cities and you have an instant army. The reason why it has to be 1-4 hammers is because if there's more invested, you will only whip for 1 pop and thus not get much overflow. It has to be a 2-pop whip.

So I guess I could use this trick with every kind of units, right? Just need to do the math. f.e: macemen cost 70 hammers, so I can invest 1-9 hammers, whip 3 population and then my next macemen will start at 21-29 hammers. Or do you have a more effective trick for the more expensive units?

 

[Abegweit]

But if all cities make units, won't my research and economy take a big hit? I might have a great army to win my war, but don't you think that the side effect which I will suffer on my research and economy will benefit a third civ which will be able to gain an advantage over me?

Your war effort should be all-out and it should be short.

There is nothing wrong with a temporary crash in your research and your economy. They will rebound after the war, as you swallow up your new conquests and your older cities grow back. Civ is a game where you often crash the economy and then re-build it. This can happen when you're at peace too. Build cities like crazy. Watch your economy crash as you stagger barely to some key tech like Writing or CoL. Then construct the building which allow you to recover. Rinse and repeat.

Do you mean that I should whip every time my city grows by 2-3 population or that I should whip only 2-3 population every time?

2-3 pop is generally what is required to whip units, which is what we are talking about. Generally 1-pop whips are undesirable but they are often acceptable for some of your basic buildings, notably monuments and expansive granaries. Bigger whips might be acceptable for things like forges. And, no, you shouldn't whip every time your city grows. It depends.

So I guess I could use this trick with every kind of units, right? Just need to do the math. f.e: macemen cost 70 hammers, so I can invest 1-9 hammers, whip 3 population and then my next macemen will start at 21-29 hammers. Or do you have a more effective trick for the more expensive units?

You always benefit from the overflow of course. However, this trick of getting a second unit out right after only works with cheap units. It's best with axes and acceptable with swords, cats and the like. With more expensive units, say cavalry, you have to make multiple whips. As I said, whip it into the ground. Spare nothing. If your citizens are unhappy, just kill more of them.

 

[grizly]

@abegweit

Very useful info, thank you so much

 

[Freeven]

@Freeven:

Only two civs can be eligible UN candidates at a given time. Did you build the UN or was it Catherine? The fact that Brennus had been AP resident throughout the game is a totally different matter. This means he had majority population in the religion the AP was built in and was probably more liked by the other AIs than his opponent. Or maybe he built the AP himself and was the only one to run the AP religion. UN however depends on your total population. And you probably won because you accepted demands from the AIs, maybe you ran the same religion and had also positive hidden modifiers because you were behind in the game.

Catherine built the UN. She, Brenus, and Justinian were all power houses. The rest of us were way behind in all facets. Brenus and Justinian shared a religion and had been warring with Catherine, so I aligned with the two of them over the one of her. I adopted their religion, gave into their demands, and traded with them. At the time the vote came up, I was Friendly with both of them, and Catherine's worst enemy, so I'm not surprised I beat Catherine in the vote. I was only surprised that only she and I were on the ballot.

I didn't realize only two civs can be UN candidates at a time. What determines which civs are eligible?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I didn't realize only two civs can be UN candidates at a time. What determines which civs are eligible?

It's aways the civ controlling the wonder plus the one with the highest population, or second highest if that one has the wonder.

 

[6K Man]

How do I turn off the autosave-on-exit function in BUG? I tend to manually save before quitting, and I'd like to get rid of the duplicate auto-saves (which have a naming protocol I don't like, anyway).

 

[TheMulattoMaker]

I'm trying to get my Monuments to not become obsolete, so I went in the XML and changed "<ObsoleteTech>TECH_ASTRONOMY</ObsoleteTech>" to "<ObsoleteTech>NONE</ObsoleteTech>"... and they still went kaput at Astronomy. Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks.

 

[plastiqe]

@Samson

OK now it makes much more sense, thank you

On a completely different matter, I have some problem on deciding what to research in the mid and in the late game as well. In the start of the game I know how to choose which technology to research and when, but then somewhere after construction I find the variety of options quite overwhelming. Now I don't ask you to give me some magic technology path, don't get me wrong, but can you give me some guidelines (f.e: what are the best options if I want to be a warmonger or some guidelines maybe by other criterion like which victory condition I want to go for or simply how you choose what to research) or maybe link me a good guide about that?

thanks again

Here are some tech lines you can "magically" research by using Great Scientist tech bulbs. The most common tech path is Currency ----)> Code of Laws ----)> Paper ----)> Education ----)> Philosophy ----)> Liberalism. Then use the free tech to set up for Renaissance/Industrial war with something like Cannons or Cuirassier. With Great Scientists you can bulb Paper, Philosophy, most of Education and most of Liberalism if you want to.

Another option for Medieval war is Metal Casting ----)> Machinery ----)> Engineering but you have to avoid Fishing to allow Great Scientists to bulb it.

But mostly picking a tech is deciding partly what you want to do in the future and also what will help you the most at the moment. Researching something the AI doesn't have is good because you can get maximum trading value for it.

 

[Sisiutil]

How do I turn off the autosave-on-exit function in BUG? I tend to manually save before quitting, and I'd like to get rid of the duplicate auto-saves (which have a naming protocol I don't like, anyway).

BUG mod options (Ctrl+Alt+O), General tab, AutoSave, Exit Save.

 

[wtfisgoingon]

Uh eh, hello there. I started playing Civ 4 a couple of days ago and I really like it. So it got the BUG mod, the BUFFY mod for GOTM/HOF games and wanted to play maps that other people also play, to see where they do better, what they do different etc.

But I really don't understand where the competition is aside from these GOTM games for Vanilla/Warlords/BTS.
I saw that there is a HOF Challenge series, but some of the threads dont even have replies...

So this is rather confusing, I have no idea how many people are playing CIV 4 atm and participate in these events. I can also buy CIV 5 and start playing that instead, if there are more people competing. Although I don't like the looks of it..

Thanks for help

 

[grizly]

Here are some tech lines you can "magically" research by using Great Scientist tech bulbs. The most common tech path is Currency ----)> Code of Laws ----)> Paper ----)> Education ----)> Philosophy ----)> Liberalism. Then use the free tech to set up for Renaissance/Industrial war with something like Cannons or Cuirassier. With Great Scientists you can bulb Paper, Philosophy, most of Education and most of Liberalism if you want to.

Thank you very much. Can you please tell me why that tech path is the most common? what makes it so good?

 

[Abegweit]

GSs are the easiest GP to generate and the best to bulb with since they generate the most beakers. This is the natural path for bulbing with them and it leads to the powerful Cuirassier unit. All in all, it's hard to beat.

 

[Sisiutil]

Thank you very much. Can you please tell me why that tech path is the most common? what makes it so good?

Being first to Liberalism gets you a free technology. Great Scientists will "lightbulb" Philosophy, Paper, and (part of) Education, which are all prerequisites for Liberalism. This means you can devote most of your research to a different tech path.

 

[dalamb]

The Philosophy bulb can be especially important because (a) it's a Lib prereq and (b) once you get it, the AI foolishly fail to prioritize it, so you have a better chance of beating them to Lib. If I have a suitable GP farm (which I haven't seem to have had lately, sigh) I use the first GS for an academy and the 2nd for Philosophy. By the time I get to Paper it's usually not that bad to self-research; double-bulbing Education can sometimes work.