Random thoughts 1: Just Sayin'

[shadowplay]

But the question is.. Everyone the gift is from pays, right? If 8 people are involved, the cost is split 8 ways? That's how I was approaching it.

But then I was thinking.. 3 kids... maybe the kids should be paying more than the significant others? So if the gift is $325, I pay $75, my sisters pay $75 each, and the SO's each pay $50.

How is this usually done? My sister was complaining about daycare costs, but she's getting a friggin pool put in.. so that negates that point

In the scenario you're describing, to the best of my knowledge, you should be covering 1/3 of the cost.. couples usually give their contribution jointly and don't double up on the amount of gift just because there's two of them.

 

[warpus]

In the scenario you're describing, to the best of my knowledge, you should be covering 1/3 of the cost.. couples usually give their contribution jointly and don't double up on the amount of gift just because there's two of them.

I don't want to be a cheapskate, but why should I be paying twice as much as my sister, though?

If that's the way things are done, that's the way things are done, but I want to understand the logic, in case you are right

 

[Synobun]

I don't want to be a cheapskate, but why should I be paying twice as much as my sister, though?

If that's the way things are done, that's the way things are done, but I want to understand the logic, in case you are right

It's your dad's retirement, is it not? Why do SOs need to pitch in?

Edit: Especially when their pitching in is automatically implied since most grownup couples share finances.

 

[Takhisis]

their pitching in is automatically implied since most grownup couples share finances.

Next!

 

[warpus]

It's your dad's retirement, is it not? Why do SOs need to pitch in?

I asked my sisters who the gift should be from, if it should only be the 3 of us, as a "We're your children, have a great retirement!" kind of gift, or if it should be from all 5 of us. Both my sisters said the gift should be from all 5 of us.

So to me that means that the gift should be split 5 ways, right? Am I wrong?

I thought that initially their plan was for the gift to only be from the 3 of us, so I asked to clarify, and that's when all this came up.

Edit: Especially when their pitching in is automatically implied since most grownup couples share finances.

Yeah exactly, so in essence I would be paying for 2 people, while my sister for instance pays for 1. I want to be fair here, both to my sisters, as well as their SO's, but also to me.

 

[Synobun]

I asked my sisters who the gift should be from, if it should only be the 3 of us, as a "We're your children, have a great retirement!" kind of gift, or if it should be from all 5 of us. Both my sisters said the gift should be from all 5 of us.

So to me that means that the gift should be split 5 ways, right? Am I wrong?

I think that might be a debate over phrasing... much like how one's parents may give them a gift and say "it's from both of us". Doesn't mean both parties had equal involvement in what went down.

 

[warpus]

I think that might be a debate over phrasing... much like how one's parents may give them a gift and say "it's from both of us". Doesn't mean both parties had equal involvement in what went down.

Yeah but in one scenario in the card it will say "This gift is from your 3 children" and the gift will be split 3 ways, while in the other scenario the card would say "The gift is from the 5 of us (and the kids)" and would be split 5 ways.

That's how I see the scenario, and my sisters did not argue about it one bit and said splitting it 5 ways is fine. But I don't want to go against etiquette or whatever, have never been in this situation before. Logic seems to dictate that you divide the gift by the number of people it's from, but that's just my purely logical thinking speaking.

A couple is two people, with two jobs, two salaries so this makes perfect sense to me. But I seem to be getting some flak here for thinking this way?

 

[Synobun]

If they explicitly said it's going to be split 5-ways then that answers your question.

 

[warpus]

If they explicitly said it's going to be split 5-ways then that answers your question.

It does but they could just being nice to me, you know? I am getting some flak here for thinking this way, so obviously etiquette is not clear on the situation. I don't really understand the hate. If I had a wife we would obviously be splitting everything 6 ways. So since I don't, 5 makes the logical sense, not 3.. No?

It would be good to have a solid understanding of the etiquette rules involved here for future gifts, especially since I will not be getting a wife anytime soon

 

[Takhisis]

It would be good to have a solid understanding of the etiquette rules involved here for future gifts, especially since I will not be getting a wife anytime soon

Too expensive?

 

[warpus]

Too expensive?

I see you are implying that I am cheap. Nice, but it doesn't help, and I don't see how me paying exactly the same as every other person involved means I'm cheap.

Hey, I'm willing to hear a logical argument here of why I'm wrong. If I am. I don't want to exactly screw my sisters over. But I don't really want to pay as much as both of them combined, either. That doesn't sound fair at all either.

And no, I prefer riding solo. If I meet someone who I want to spend every day with going forward, then that will happen. But for now I'm happy where I am

 

[Valka D'Ur]

yeah...the sleep hygiene stuff are behavioral recommendations, but because one method is statistically better than another does not mean it works for everyone... i myself cant sleep unless the tv is on, just barely audible. my wife used to turn it off when I was asleep and I would wake up and turn it back on....now she got used to sleeping with it on as well

Have you considered audio books? Just use earphones. You'll hear the sound of words, but nobody else has to. And if the book isn't that interesting or the voice isn't, it should work fine. I have some cassettes of Arthur C. Clarke reading his own stories. Puts me to sleep every time (his reading voice was a dry monotone).

There's a story Isaac Asimov told in his autobiography. He always typed his stories on a typewriter, so he was used to hearing that sound for hours a day, every day. But when he had to go to the hospital for some sort of operation (I don't remember what it was), he couldn't sleep. The doctors and nurses couldn't figure out what to do, but Asimov's wife (Janet, his second wife) realized that he probably missed the sound of a typewriter. So she brought an audio tape of someone typing to the hospital, put it in a tape player, and it worked. Asimov was able to sleep.

Etiquette question.

Me and my 2 sisters are discussing buying my dad a retirement gift. My sisters are both married and all of us are working. We are looking to get our dad an iWatch.

"My two sisters and I" (hey, you said it was an etiquette question )

I asked them if we are giving this gift from the 3 of us, or from the 5 of us (I don't have a SO). At first my sisters were saying the gift should be from all 5 of us, so I figured we'd split it 5 ways. But then they seemed to think it should be split 3 ways. Right away they changed their mind and said it should be from all 5 of us and we'll split it 5 ways..

So.. how does this work? What's the etiquette? In my mind whoever the gift is from should be splitting the cost, but that's my pov. Now I feel a bit bad because one of my sisters has kids and daycare costs and what not, so I said I'd contribute a bit more than just a 5th. Mind you I found out 2 days ago that she is putting in a swimming pool and re-doing her deck so obviously they have $$.. But.. What says you? What's the etiquette here?

It's usual for married couples to act as a single person, 'pretending' that both were involved. I even did that with a friend's wedding, signing the card from both myself and my boyfriend (I'd paid for the present and card, but I knew he genuinely wished her well, so it wasn't a 100% lie).

Is it fair? No. But it's a kind of "social fiction" that helps keep families from fighting over things like this.

How much does this thing cost, anyway? Is it something your dad really wants or would use? Are there any accessories or other gadgets associated with it? (electronic stuff does everything but the dishes, garbage, and litter box these days, so I'm asking)

But the question is.. Everyone the gift is from pays, right? If 8 people are involved, the cost is split 8 ways? That's how I was approaching it.

But then I was thinking.. 3 kids... maybe the kids should be paying more than the significant others? So if the gift is $325, I pay $75, my sisters pay $75 each, and the SO's each pay $50.

How is this usually done? My sister was complaining about daycare costs, but she's getting a friggin pool put in.. so that negates that point

Some families really count down to every last dollar. When my mother's side of the family decided to pool their money to send her parents (my maternal grandparents) to Hawaii for a much-belated special anniversary present), even I was told to contribute. Keep in mind that this was while I was still in school, making a whopping $1/hour babysitting and I don't think the library pay at school had been bumped up past that much/hour, either. Suffice to say I didn't have anywhere near the amount that I was told to chip in, so my mother covered that. My grandparents (dad's parents) didn't believe in allowances, so any spending money I wanted had to be earned by babysitting and working in the library. What I spent it on was books.

There's probably not much your sister can do about daycare costs, but if this watch is a done-deal decision, she should rethink her pool and chip in more (make it a little less fancy, maybe? I have no idea what kind of pool she's putting in, obviously, or what it costs).

 

[warpus]

How much does this thing cost, anyway? Is it something your dad really wants or would use? Are there any accessories or other gadgets associated with it? (electronic stuff does everything but the dishes, garbage, and litter box these days, so I'm asking)

It's an iWatch and will set us back anywhere from $600 to $950 CDN.. plus tax. So it's a pretty pricy gift overall, which is why I made a point of asking how many people the gift is supposed to be from. I mean I fully understand that couples do everything as a team, so I did expect the gift to probably be from all 5 of us, but it was not really spelled out, so I figured I should ask. Cause in my mind it would be plausible (and kind of touching for our dad) to have a gift only from his kids. I thought maybe my sisters had that in mind. Another reason to clarify who exactly this gift will be from, and how we will be splitting it.

In the past we've split everything 5 ways, whether it was a gift for my mom or a camping trip or whatever. It makes 100% sense to me. 5 people, 5 paycheques, we're all going in on something, you split it by the number of people involved. Yes the couples act as a team, but they are pulling in 2 incomes, and I'm pulling in 1.

This is a bit different now because the gift is a tad more pricy. And my sisters' husbands were not involved in gift selection in any way as far as I know. So it made me wonder about etiquette, which is why I asked here.
The way I am reading my sisters (if it's possible to do such a thing over the internet) they think that this is fair, but they would prefer to do it the other way but don't really care either way. But like I said it's not easy to read people over the internet.

There's probably not much your sister can do about daycare costs, but if this watch is a done-deal decision, she should rethink her pool and chip in more (make it a little less fancy, maybe? I have no idea what kind of pool she's putting in, obviously, or what it costs).

It sounds like they're going all out on the pool. It's not really relevant to be honest, but as soon as my sister started bringing up daycare costs.. it sort of becomes relevant, you know? She makes more than me, her husband probably makes more than me, he is part owner of the company and has profit sharing. And they're putting in a pool? I mean I love my dad but that makes me not want to pay for 2 people even more.

This whole double standard has made me grumpy.. I don't want to be a jerk to my sisters but I don't like the unfairness of making single people pay for 2 instead of 1. The way I read my sisters I think they understand it would be unfair to split it 3 ways, but the way you guys are saying this is "the way it's done" (tm) so I can see that side of it too. I'm not exactly one to follow unfair social etiquette, but at the same time I love my family quite a bit so I am willing to compromise. I have already told my sisters I would be willing to pay more than 1/5th. Having said that I don't want to create the precedent of me always paying double for everything going forward. I mean, I'm not poor, but I'm not exactly rich either

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It's an iWatch and will set us back anywhere from $600 to $950 CDN.. plus tax. So it's a pretty pricy gift overall, which is why I made a point of asking how many people the gift is supposed to be from. I mean I fully understand that couples do everything as a team, so I did expect the gift to probably be from all 5 of us, but it was not really spelled out, so I figured I should ask. Cause in my mind it would be plausible (and kind of touching for our dad) to have a gift only from his kids. I thought maybe my sisters had that in mind. Another reason to clarify who exactly this gift will be from, and how we will be splitting it.

If that hasn't been definitively spelled out, you need to make sure. Different people assuming different things are what can lead to family arguments.

In the past we've split everything 5 ways, whether it was a gift for my mom or a camping trip or whatever. It makes 100% sense to me. 5 people, 5 paycheques, we're all going in on something, you split it by the number of people involved. Yes the couples act as a team, but they are pulling in 2 incomes, and I'm pulling in 1.

If the incomes are reasonably close, it does seem fair to split it evenly among all the participants. But of course, that's just me making assumptions, going on the necessarily limited information presented here.

As I mentioned in my anecdote about my maternal grandparents, I think my uncle just assumed I'd ask my other grandparents for the money, or he assumed I got an allowance (no, to both of them; I knew even then that there was no way in hell that my dad's parents would chip in even one penny to send my mom's parents to Hawaii... especially as this was so many years after my parents were divorced and my mother wasn't even family anymore). My grandfather was incensed that they would expect me to contribute at all, as this was to be a present from the four adult kids to their parents, not roping in my younger cousin or me.

This is a bit different now because the gift is a tad more pricy. And my sisters' husbands were not involved in gift selection in any way as far as I know. So it made me wonder about etiquette, which is why I asked here.
The way I am reading my sisters (if it's possible to do such a thing over the internet) they think that this is fair, but they would prefer to do it the other way but don't really care either way. But like I said it's not easy to read people over the internet.

It sounds like someone had an idea, and everyone is confused about the fairest way to carry it out.

Would it mean more to your dad if it was the 3 of you who gave him this present, or if it was all 5 of you? Does he consider your sisters' SOs to be more than just sons-in-law? If it's the latter, it seems that it's not a bad thing to split this 5 ways.

It sounds like they're going all out on the pool. It's not really relevant to be honest, but as soon as my sister started bringing up daycare costs.. it sort of becomes relevant, you know? She makes more than me, her husband probably makes more than me, he is part owner of the company and has profit sharing. And they're putting in a pool? I mean I love my dad but that makes me not want to pay for 2 people even more.

This is perfectly understandable. I have to wonder (sheer speculation, as I have no information to go by) if they see your trips to other countries the same way you see the pool. I'm talking about the "if ___ can afford ____, he/she can certainly afford to chip in 1/3 of the cost of this watch" equation.

(I don't mean the above to be judgmental or biased in any way; your trips fall into the category of "the experience of a lifetime" and there's no reason at all that anyone should begrudge them or use them as a "but what about..." point in an argument)

This whole double standard has made me grumpy.. I don't want to be a jerk to my sisters but I don't like the unfairness of making single people pay for 2 instead of 1. The way I read my sisters I think they understand it would be unfair to split it 3 ways, but the way you guys are saying this is "the way it's done" (tm) so I can see that side of it too. I'm not exactly one to follow unfair social etiquette, but at the same time I love my family quite a bit so I am willing to compromise. I have already told my sisters I would be willing to pay more than 1/5th. Having said that I don't want to create the precedent of me always paying double for everything going forward. I mean, I'm not poor, but I'm not exactly rich either

Just because we've said "this is the way it's done" that doesn't mean it's actually the best way. It's the most expedient way, and the goal is usually to minimize the chances for a family argument (it doesn't always work).

I did some elementary figuring, based on the $950 price (not sure if that includes GST/HST or not; you need to figure in things like that, plus an enviro fee if that's a thing in your province (in Alberta there's an enviro fee on some electronic/computerized things due to some of the toxic metals in them)).

So $950 split 5 ways is $190 per person. Your sisters and their SOs would end up paying $380/couple. If they think you're underpaying, you could offer to make up the difference in another way... such as doing some sort of chores or other favors/services for your dad that he'd normally have to pay someone to do it.

Not sure how much extra you offered to chip in.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It does but they could just being nice to me, you know?

Yes, I know. And yes, they are.

 

[warpus]

If the incomes are reasonably close, it does seem fair to split it evenly among all the participants. But of course, that's just me making assumptions, going on the necessarily limited information presented here.

Thank you, I thought I was crazy that everyone was disagreeing with me on this point. Honestly I don't understand the insinuations that I'm cheap and all the backlash.

It doesn't really matter tbh, all 5 of us are adults with good jobs. But for context's sake my sister makes about $20k more than I do, and her husband owns a part of the company he works for and gets profit sharing and other bonuses. My other sister is a nurse and I have no idea about her salary actually, but her husband is a director of a big facility and probably makes a killing.

Honestly I don't think the salaries really matter, unless one of us was working minimum wage. But for context I am including that information.

It sounds like someone had an idea, and everyone is confused about the fairest way to carry it out.

As soon as I asked how we're splitting it everyone seemed to agree that splitting it 5 ways is "fine". But initially there was sort of an assumption that it would be split 3 ways. Which is why I asked to clarify if we're doing this gift as a "From your loving kids" type of thing, which does sound sentimental, so I thought maybe that's what my sisters are going for. But no, they said they would like the gift to be from all 5 of us. Right away they said that splitting it 5 ways is "fine".

Honestly I think it's just my elder sister being low on money because she's getting an in-ground pool.. rebuilding her deck.. getting a dog.. etc. So in a sneaky way I think she would have preferred for me to pay a bit more. I don't want to accuse her of that and will give her the benefit of the doubt, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like "something like that".

Would it mean more to your dad if it was the 3 of you who gave him this present, or if it was all 5 of you? Does he consider your sisters' SOs to be more than just sons-in-law? If it's the latter, it seems that it's not a bad thing to split this 5 ways.

My dad loves my sisters' husbands and they are over often. They have been accepted into the family and then some.

I am not sure which type of gift my dad would prefer. I think he might tear up a bit if he got a gift from just me and my sisters, and for example liquor from my sisters' husbands. That does seem a bit more sentimental. But honestly it's hard to say which one he would prefer more. He does consider my sisters' husbands to be close family. One of them (the non-Polish guy) is even learning Polish! He even converted religions just to appease my parents. They never even asked him to and they would't really give a crap either way. He's really gone out of his way to be a part of this family and we all love him for it. The other guy was already Polish so it was easier, and he is equally liked by my parents.

Just because we've said "this is the way it's done" that doesn't mean it's actually the best way. It's the most expedient way, and the goal is usually to minimize the chances for a family argument (it doesn't always work).

It seems to me that an unfair splitting of the cost is more likely to lead to arguments rather than a more fair 5 way split. But mind you I come from a family of logical thinkers - physicists, math teachers, scientists, etc. Even so, I think my sisters are swayed a bit by North American traditions in this case. It's hard to say though.

So $950 split 5 ways is $190 per person. Your sisters and their SOs would end up paying $380/couple. If they think you're underpaying, you could offer to make up the difference in another way... such as doing some sort of chores or other favors/services for your dad that he'd normally have to pay someone to do it.

Not sure how much extra you offered to chip in.

I didn't mention an amount but I would be willing to pay 25% of the gift, the rest split between them. I mentioned that I would pay more, but they didn't even respond to it. So I think in their minds we either split it 5 ways, or we split it 6 ways and I pay for 2 people. Doesn't seem like an "in between" solution is in the cards, but maybe I'm wrong.

I am totally for me personally paying for some other aspect of the celebrations, as a personal gesture to my father. We are taking him out to dinner to a nice restaurant. I would totally pay for his entire dinner, but my sisters want to split that too. I don't think they would like it if I paid for the whole meal, they want in on the gesture.

Essentially this is how I look at it:

Me, my sister, and her husband order a pizza, which costs $15 after taxes and delivery. We all eat an equal amount of slices.

Does it make more sense for me to pay $7.50, my sister to pay $3.75, and her husband to pay $3.75.. or for each one of us to pay $5?

Logic drives a lot of my thoughts. I'm a math guy as well. I don't understand how it would ever make sense for me to pay $7.50 and for that to be fair. But I am willing to listen and understand why people are upset that I'm not paying for half of the pizza. The only reason I've seen so far is "Because tradition". I would need a far more logical break-down of why I'm wrong in order for me to change my mind. So if such a reason exists, please share it with me, because my mind is open and I am willing to listen.

 

[Arakhor]

Call me mercenary if you like, but if everyone agreed to split it evenly (either three ways or five ways), then that's what you should do. If your sister is actually hinting that she wants you to pay 40% or so and they pay the other 60% between the four of them, then perhaps she should say that directly.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Thank you, I thought I was crazy that everyone was disagreeing with me on this point. Honestly I don't understand the insinuations that I'm cheap and all the backlash.

It doesn't really matter tbh, all 5 of us are adults with good jobs. But for context's sake my sister makes about $20k more than I do, and her husband owns a part of the company he works for and gets profit sharing and other bonuses. My other sister is a nurse and I have no idea about her salary actually, but her husband is a director of a big facility and probably makes a killing.

Honestly I don't think the salaries really matter, unless one of us was working minimum wage. But for context I am including that information.



As soon as I asked how we're splitting it everyone seemed to agree that splitting it 5 ways is "fine". But initially there was sort of an assumption that it would be split 3 ways. Which is why I asked to clarify if we're doing this gift as a "From your loving kids" type of thing, which does sound sentimental, so I thought maybe that's what my sisters are going for. But no, they said they would like the gift to be from all 5 of us. Right away they said that splitting it 5 ways is "fine".

Honestly I think it's just my elder sister being low on money because she's getting an in-ground pool.. rebuilding her deck.. getting a dog.. etc. So in a sneaky way I think she would have preferred for me to pay a bit more. I don't want to accuse her of that and will give her the benefit of the doubt, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like "something like that".



My dad loves my sisters' husbands and they are over often. They have been accepted into the family and then some.

I am not sure which type of gift my dad would prefer. I think he might tear up a bit if he got a gift from just me and my sisters, and for example liquor from my sisters' husbands. That does seem a bit more sentimental. But honestly it's hard to say which one he would prefer more. He does consider my sisters' husbands to be close family. One of them (the non-Polish guy) is even learning Polish! He even converted religions just to appease my parents. They never even asked him to and they would't really give a crap either way. He's really gone out of his way to be a part of this family and we all love him for it. The other guy was already Polish so it was easier, and he is equally liked by my parents.



It seems to me that an unfair splitting of the cost is more likely to lead to arguments rather than a more fair 5 way split. But mind you I come from a family of logical thinkers - physicists, math teachers, scientists, etc. Even so, I think my sisters are swayed a bit by North American traditions in this case. It's hard to say though.



I didn't mention an amount but I would be willing to pay 25% of the gift, the rest split between them. I mentioned that I would pay more, but they didn't even respond to it. So I think in their minds we either split it 5 ways, or we split it 6 ways and I pay for 2 people. Doesn't seem like an "in between" solution is in the cards, but maybe I'm wrong.

I am totally for me personally paying for some other aspect of the celebrations, as a personal gesture to my father. We are taking him out to dinner to a nice restaurant. I would totally pay for his entire dinner, but my sisters want to split that too. I don't think they would like it if I paid for the whole meal, they want in on the gesture.

Essentially this is how I look at it:

Me, my sister, and her husband order a pizza, which costs $15 after taxes and delivery. We all eat an equal amount of slices.

Does it make more sense for me to pay $7.50, my sister to pay $3.75, and her husband to pay $3.75.. or for each one of us to pay $5?

Logic drives a lot of my thoughts. I'm a math guy as well. I don't understand how it would ever make sense for me to pay $7.50 and for that to be fair. But I am willing to listen and understand why people are upset that I'm not paying for half of the pizza. The only reason I've seen so far is "Because tradition". I would need a far more logical break-down of why I'm wrong in order for me to change my mind. So if such a reason exists, please share it with me, because my mind is open and I am willing to listen.

I don't think I ever said you should pay more than your fair share (1/5 if splitting it 5 ways, or 1/3 if splitting it 3 ways). I explained what was customary, but also mentioned that it's often done as a way of avoiding arguments or just including the "other" person for appearances' sake.

Some customs aren't always right, and from what you've explained in this post, I don't see any reason at all why the cost shouldn't be split 5 ways, each person paying an equal share. I don't think you're cheap, and never said so (sorry if that wasn't clear in my earlier posts).


To me a gift should be meaningful to the recipient, and the amount spent shouldn't matter (within reason). My mother would accuse me of being cheap, but to her it did matter about the money. If I spent $25 on my dad, she figured I'd damn well better spend at least that much on her, too... no matter what the gift was or what it might mean. It got to the point where I stopped giving her Mother's Day cards because none of them were ever good enough, and she'd just throw them out anyway. She was livid when she found out that I still gave my dad Father's Day cards, and didn't understand when I told her the reason: "Because he appreciates them, and keeps them. You're never satisfied with the ones you get, and you just throw them in the garbage."

The above was one of the last conversations we ever had, btw. She was mad about the cards, and mad about some other things she thought I was being unreasonable about.


So it sounds like your family is really close, and that's nice to hear. Based on all of this, my view of it is go ahead and split the cost of the watch 5 ways, each person paying 1/5. If your sister mentions day care or the pool or the dog (purebred from a breeder? Or adopting from a shelter?), it's entirely reasonable for you to point out that you have plans to go to Nepal and wherever your next trip after that will be.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Significant others are to count as 3/5 of a person. What each 1/5 of a person gives is prorated by that 1/5 person's income. If any party has purchased a pool or gone on a major vacation recently, that person pays a double share, and any excess is subtracted from the amount the other pays.

In the card to your father, all of this should be spelled out with meticulous accuracy. He should then divide his "thank you" card into strictly proportional segments. Your sister should get the t and part of the h; her significant other should get the rest of the h and half of the a. You should get the remainder of the a and all of the n and k. Your other sister should get the y and most of the o and her significant other the remainder of the o and all of the u.

Just read the opening of King Lear and it will all be clear to you.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Significant others are to count as 3/5 of a person. What each 1/5 of a person gives is prorated by that 1/5 person's income. If any party has purchased a pool or gone on a major vacation recently, that person pays a double share, and any excess is subtracted from the amount the other pays.

So warpus' sister counts as 40% of a person and her husband counts as 60% of a person?



I'm sure she'd feel super-complimented to know that.