RB1 - Cuban Isolationists

[Sirian]

1964AD: THE BATTLE OF ANTIUM

Our Tanks Roll(TM). Their city falls.

OK, OK, enough cutting to the chase.
It went like this:

1959AD: Airstrikes on Delhi, capture Delhi.
1960AD: Advance on southern front in to position to take Satricum and Neapolis.
- Also move rear-positioned aircraft forward to Delhi. Airlift in reinforcements.
1961AD: Capture Satricum and Neapolis. Advance a couple of unhurt units past these cities. Airlifts.
1962AD: Advance in to position to take Arpinum.
1963AD: Capture Arpinum. (Flat ground, tanks could blitz. Didn't need a lot of units).
- Also move a few unhurt units in to range of Antium.
1964AD: The Battle of Antium.

The Air Power really is the key. Even vs Rome with their SAM Infantry!
If they have three SAMs and I can deliver ten bombers on target...
Then at least seven bombers will get through unmolested.

This is a bit of a hole in the AI. They don't gather their air force for a "Battle of Britain" style defense.
And that is really what is needed. (Maybe Civ4 can improve on this in the expansion).
Of course, if they get to Mech Infantry and SAMs, and have Bunkers, they can make it not worth your while.
Air power is much more effective vs an opponent who is behind you in tech.

With major air cover, the bombers can indeed take down city defenses.
That isn't always necessary, though. Sometimes just hitting the defenders is good enough!
Modern Armor can roll over half-strength Infantry units even in cities with their defense bonus intact.

Heck, you can roll over them, period, if you are willing to take a few losses.
(I did that at Coventry, the English holy city. No softening, just CHARGE!)
(Lost an elite tank, but saved three turns of not waiting for artillery to roll forward.)


THE BATTLE OF ANTIUM

Our Planes Bomb(TM). Our Tanks Roll(TM).

And just like that, I have taken five of Rome's nine core cities.

95 turns left! I expect most of India to be taken out by the end of the next 10 turns.

CLEARLY that was a typo. Plain as day. Obvious as the nose on my face.

What Sulla meant to write was:

95 turns left! I expect most of Rome to be taken out by the end of the next 10 turns.



See, it's very easily understood. Typos of this kind are extremely common.

He meant to press the letter keys for R - O - M - E and instead hit I - N - D - I - A.
Anybody could have made that mistake. The keys are so close together!

 

[Sirian]

1964AD: THE BATTLE OF KOLHAPUR

Our Tanks Roll(TM).

Their civ falls.

(Note Asoka's score. Yep.)

95 turns left! I expect most of India to be taken out by the end of the next 10 turns.

CLEARLY that was a typo. Plain as day. Obvious as the nose on my face.

What Sulla meant to write was:

95 turns left! I expect all of India to be taken out by the end of the next 10 turns.



See, it's very easily understood. Typos of this kind are extremely common.

He meant to press the letter keys for A - L - L and instead hit M - O - S - T.
Anybody could have made that mistake. The keys are so close together!

 

[StarrySurprise]

Is it just me, or does this thread have more views than the rest of the SGs combined?

Epic.

 

[madviking]

Is it just me, or does this thread have more views than the rest of the SGs combined?

Epic.

Almost, 80,735 to 83,583

 

[Heroes]

Warriors go all the way to Mech Inf, just like C3C. Nothing goes to tanks, that is the start point.

Man, in C3C warriors go all the way to TOW infantry, it's spearman that goest to mechanized infantry ... People have forgotten C3C so quickly after Civ 4's release.

 

[ChrTh]

Sorry. Not trying to stretch it out by design!

(Do you realize I've posted over 350 screens already? In this thread?)

OK, I'll try to wrap this up, now.


- Sirian

Sorry, Sirian, I wasn't trying to get you to rush. I'd rather you take your time and continue being thorough rather than rush through it to placate the mob.

Besides, I think is more of a "patient waiting" smiley. I would think is closer to rushing. In reality, there really needs to be a smiley of looking at your watch.

Of course, the smiley that works best for this game is

 

[Sirian]

Almost, 80,735 to 83,583

You actually added up the other ones? Wow. Now that's a CivFanatic!


ChrTh: No worries. Just pulling your chain.


FAMOUS LAST WORDS: "I should have the rest up momentarily."


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

1964AD: Our Stealth Bomber scouts Northeast Isle.

Rome has Oil hooked up? Wonder how long that's been true. (No sign of Tanks or Air yet!)


1965AD: Behold the wondrous BLACK DOT!

I cannot help but have affection for Civ's "small town" fishing villages.

We've had a settler up on the north continent? I lost track of it.
Sulla must not have specifically pointed that one out to me.
(I can keep track of obscure stuff, but don't expect me to observe the obvious!)

Anyway, that's where I think it should go. Fresh water, on both lake and sea, in range of a Fish.


Oh, by the way...

We are one turn away from our next Golden Age!
(First to learn Fusion pops a free Great Person).

(Or we can delay a few turns, and let some of these captured cities come out of resistance first!)


Who was it who wanted to know the composition of our armed forces?

There ya go.

Here's a casualty list for our enemies. (Not a good day to be in the infantry!)

 

[Spatzimaus]

I'd rather you take your time and continue being thorough rather than rush through it to placate the mob.

Bah, placate the mob! We like it!

I do like how the AI isn't making stupid deals for peace when it thinks there's a good chance you'll go right back to war. It's too bad you can't get across complex concepts like this to the AI players... of course, since you clearly only want the city to start a full invasion, it wouldn't exactly work on a human opponent, either.

I wonder, if you culture bombed the heck out of Masuyama, would it be enough to reach the Greek island? I can't find the post with that part of the map zoomed in.

 

[Sirian]

1965AD: A look inside our Wonder-ous capital. (I'm trying to pop an Artist!)

Internet! Due in less time if we kick off our golden age.


A view of NE Continent:

I have captured 12 cities on this round. (Everything Madras and eastward).
I also founded two cities (up in the ice). SAN CHARISSO! Yeah.

Note the 20% Science. I foresee a period of Universal Suffrage in our future.
I also have one of our near-equatorial cities working on the Space Elevator.
(If we do have to build the ship, we'll cruise to the win.)

This game is not so much a question of if or when, but HOW.


NW Continent:

SW Continent:

Eastern Hemisphere:

Somebody asked for bare maps.

Bare map, eastern hemi:

Bare map, western hemi:

The world as we know it!


ROME

I've left our forward-most stack of Armor unmoved.

Sulla can choose to press to Rome, or divert some units toward Circei.

Rome does have seven cities, so two are in the western hemisphere.
If they won't give them up now, though, I wonder if they ever will.
If we rip up the other half of their heartland, what use will it be for them to go on living?!?


I envy you, Sulla. Right on Rome's doorstep!

That son of a [female canine] Caesar, who declared on us in the early game...
I'm eager to see him repent for his sins against the holy motherland.


- Sirian

 

[Arathorn]

If they won't give them up now, though, I wonder if they ever will.

Not that I've seen. Current situation, warpower strength, current army, ability to reinforce, nothing seems to matter. The AI won't give up squat but will demand big cities for peace very often. I've had to just kill 'em off, because they won't listen to reason. "I have taken 3/4 of your cities, pillaged the rest of your land, and have a huge army. And you want ME to pay you for peace? :rolleye:" I think you're gonna have to end up settling for a space victory.

Arathorn

 

[Heroes]

Not that I've seen. Current situation, warpower strength, current army, ability to reinforce, nothing seems to matter. The AI won't give up squat but will demand big cities for peace very often. I've had to just kill 'em off, because they won't listen to reason. "I have taken 3/4 of your cities, pillaged the rest of your land, and have a huge army. And you want ME to pay you for peace? :rolleye:" I think you're gonna have to end up settling for a space victory.

Arathorn

Maybe 68% pop and UN victory is closer ...

 

[Sullla]

Well, looks like I haven't set difficult enough goals for Sirian to follow. Next time, it'll have to be something impossible, just to see if you can pull it off.

I'm a little surprised too at the AI's total refusal to give up ANY city in return for peace. I mean, we wanted to do something to limit the Civ3 pointy stick research a bit, but we may have gone too far. Regardless of what happens in this game, it's more info that we can pass on to Soren, and all to the good.

I don't expect to get to this game until Sunday - got a lot planned for Saturday (tomorrow). I'll finish out removing the last non-Cubans from our hemisphere and see if I can beg, borrow, or steal a city somewhere on one of the other continents.

 

[CrazyMrLeo]

Yikes. What a set of turns!

 

[Liquidated]

After reading the india/rome blitz last night, I beat down on an unsuspecting ghandi using a few tanks and plenty of bombers. I had a few cannons with me from before and they never once had a chance to attack. Armor + bombers is simply insane on a foe that doesn;t have anti air units.

Thanks so much for the detailed turn set sirian, I'm am just starting on the offensive part of civ4 and well the cubans schooled me major

All I can say is bum rushing attack copters + tanks + bombers then following it all up with air lifted infanty and workers to spam rail roads is just insane. One thing to see the pros pull it off, yet another to see a noob like me wipe out india without a single loss (those copters sure came close tho ).

m0 bombers!!!

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[Gufnork]

I decided to test how powerful the hydra can be. So I tried a game on Noble.

Behold the Hydra JewChrIslHinBudConTao:

Yes, that's spearmen guarding it at 2045AD. They're friends, what can I say?

This is how much my empire costs to run:


This is how much I get from the Hydra:

Almost enough to support my entire empire (35 cities, population of 30 million).

It's an interesting strategy, I must say. I wouldn't recommend going for a JewChrIslHinBudConTao though. Sorry, I'll let you get back to your regular programming, just thought people in here might be interested in this. I was interested enough to play a 3.5 hour game to test it.

 

[Sirian]

I decided to test how powerful the hydra can be. So I tried a game on Noble.

Behold the Hydra JewChrIslHinBudConTao:

The seven-headed Hydra!

If you will note, though, you are pulling 82 gpt from your shrines.
We're getting that much from just three shrines.

There are diminishing returns involved, since it costs extra Great Prophets to build the additional shrines, and it is increasingly harder and costlier to spread additional religions to cities that already have several. There is a soft cap on how many shields you can burn on training Missionary units before it costs you more than it's worth.

HinBudJewIsm the Magnificent is doable for a civ who starts with Mysticism and prioritizes early religion at the cost of early growth. This is chasable even on Monarch or Emperor, although much harder to obtain there. ("Spain on a Lake(TM)" might have a shot at it.)

Trying to get a fourth holy city in your capital, though, will always cost you more than it is worth. Delaying expansion for that long hurts in more ways than I could count! Doable in OCC, though, of course.


- Sirian

 

[Gufnork]

Actually, if you get Theocracy from Oracle it doesn't take that long. More than four is definetly not worth doing though, since it's not worth the effort trying to get more than four religions in a city.

Getting all seven required me to stick to one city for a very long time. Once I could expand the other civs on the island had already taken all the available land. I was able to squeeze in five cities within massive cultural borders and flip two more though. And since this was just Noble I managed to outtech everyone and conquer the world with Cavalry (they're quite useful against Longbowmen).

Religion denial is an interesting thing to try, though. I think the AIs on other continents were set back quite a bit due to the lack of religions. Might be a useful strategy on higher difficulties if you get a good start (I prefer Inca by Oasis over Spain on a Lake) with a Mysticistic civ.

 

[Sirian]

Actually, if you get Theocracy from Oracle it doesn't take that long. More than four is definetly not worth doing though, since it's not worth the effort trying to get more than four religions in a city.

Oracle is not available until Priesthood, which is off the beaten path of the rush to Judaism. On higher difficulty, you will not get Judaism without a beeline, in the overwhelming majority of cases. So then you are talking about going all the way to Judaism first, then researching Priesthood, starting the Oracle, and researching Writing, all of this before putting anything to expanding to a second city? Monarch may be a bit more of a step up in difficulty than you are thinking.


- Sirian

 

[Gufnork]

You're right, I forgot about Writing. I don't doubt one could win Monarch by doing it, but the gains from a fourth head would be marginal at best and you'd be worse off than if you didn't try it. Then again, it was a while since I played on Monarch.

Three is the max I would try this strategy for and the third I'd get mostly for denial purposes.