So he was a bigger beneficiary of grade inflation than Gore or Kerry? Good to know, he's clearly not stupid. All the empirical evidence to the contrary is wrong, his grades were good. It's also pretty obvious bathsheba (or pretty much any critic of his) thinks W is some evil mastermind. That label was usually attached to Cheney.
Reflections on the Iraq War
- Thread starter Azale
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You've got to admit . . . W was smart enough to fool 23% of the people 100% of the time.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
I just get tired of the silly arguments where people try to label him an idiot or whatever. GWB was always a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
Ajidica
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He wasn't an idiot, but simply being 'not an idiot' in no way implies 'presidential material'.
Too bad his Presidency didn't live up to his academic collection of gentleman's C's.
hobbsyoyo
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Everyone knows he was either an idiot or an evil genius who tomahawked the twin towers. Duh. Get with the program dude.
Looking back (and to an extent during his Presidency) I see Bush as sort of the loyal "team player" who wanted to do right by his allies and his Elite circle of trust, which was the Turd-blossom/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz wing of the Republican party at the time. I think he honestly believed that what these guys were telling him to do was the right thing. How bad he is for failing to recognize the errors of the policies and decisions these people wanted him to make is a different question. But I don't think he was an evil person necessarily, I think he was part of a larger machine and he was willing to use his position and power to do what his circle wanted. It didn't matter if they failed catastrophically, he would stick by them in his loyal frat-boy way. (E.g., Katrina.) This often made him look less than intelligent. (E.g., Katrina.) Bush certainly did not lack conviction and the ability to make decisions and stick to them though. It became a joke after he called himself "the decider" but he was, actually, precisely that. It's just that his decisions were often tragically wrong.
Absolutely. I was always against the Iraq war.
hobbsyoyo
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I see.
What was frustrating for me is that my 18th birthday was just 5 months after the 2004 election, so I didn't have a say even though I was very politically aware and motivated to vote. I was against the war then and for a long time afterward. Though against it, I've always wanted us to win it since to not win seemed an even greater waste. It's only very recently that I've come to change my opinion from the war as a total waste to, well, not a good thing but possibly not a terribly bad thing.*
*In the long run, if things go very well for the next few decades.
What was frustrating for me is that my 18th birthday was just 5 months after the 2004 election, so I didn't have a say even though I was very politically aware and motivated to vote. I was against the war then and for a long time afterward. Though against it, I've always wanted us to win it since to not win seemed an even greater waste. It's only very recently that I've come to change my opinion from the war as a total waste to, well, not a good thing but possibly not a terribly bad thing.*
*In the long run, if things go very well for the next few decades.
The cheerleaders of the war never gave a defimition of winning. They just babbled on about not cutting and running until we won. Now they babble on about us not even knowing if we won for another few decades or so.
hobbsyoyo
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While true, I do tend to think that pulling out in the middle of the insurgency and creating another Afghanistan complete with never ending civil war and terrorist breeding ground* is losing. Granted, the lack of a definable winning condition was and is stupid - particularly since what those responsible define as winning changes as they need it to.
*I acknowledge we created those conditions by invading in the first place.
*I acknowledge we created those conditions by invading in the first place.
Yes, I imagine that would be tiring.
Patroklos
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I have provided many metrics that can only be interpreted as success. On the flip side nobody claiming failure can point to one metric that supports that conclusion.
To lay the myth that the expense as particularly notable to rest:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22926.pdf
wmd finds/(blood + treasure)
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
What about the decisions that he made that were right?
For example, his support to Africa in trying to address the AIDs issue there. He did more than any other President prior to him.
GWB did a lot of things right as well. Although trying to get his dectractors to admit that is like pulling teeth.
He just wanted to be in the next "We Are the World" video
Tycho Brahe
Emperor
George W Bush is willfully ignorant, intellectually incurious and, ironically, filled with moral certitude.
(Stolen quote)
(Stolen quote)
GhostWriter16
Deity
VRWC lost some conservative points
The Iraqi War was by its very nature a progressive invasion, as any member of the Old Right could have told you. Neoconservatives and liberals are really hard to tell apart, because they're almost the same. I, of course, am fully opposed to this idiotic war and think George W. Bush and Dick Cheney should be charged with mass murders that would make Ted Bundy blush.
The Iraqi War was by its very nature a progressive invasion, as any member of the Old Right could have told you. Neoconservatives and liberals are really hard to tell apart, because they're almost the same. I, of course, am fully opposed to this idiotic war and think George W. Bush and Dick Cheney should be charged with mass murders that would make Ted Bundy blush.
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