Again: if we can't take other peoples' links at face value because they're "pro-Ukraine", how on earth are we meant to accept random videos on YouTube filmed in a car?
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[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine--Act 3: Ride of the Valkyries
- Thread starter Birdjaguar
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r16
not deity
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actual Cold Warriors tell me that feeling of Russia "winning" is always horrible .
sweden tells they were one of the first countries to declare the seperatists as a terrorist organization . Does their Foreign Minister also know that they dispatched two seperate Commando units to the Middle East after the assasination of Olof Palme , you know , because ?
sweden tells they were one of the first countries to declare the seperatists as a terrorist organization . Does their Foreign Minister also know that they dispatched two seperate Commando units to the Middle East after the assasination of Olof Palme , you know , because ?
Kupe Navigator
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saamohod
Deity
Two men in military uniform are talking with another man in civilian clothing. Person in the car "They are drafting people in Kharkiv!".
Yep, looks legit.
Sadly the street-drafting only happens in this very street corner in Kharkiv(?). Nowhere else it is the case according to my experience as a Ukrainian, or anywhere else according to my friends and relatives in other parts of Ukraine.
Yep, looks legit.
Sadly the street-drafting only happens in this very street corner in Kharkiv(?). Nowhere else it is the case according to my experience as a Ukrainian, or anywhere else according to my friends and relatives in other parts of Ukraine.
Snowygerry
Deity
There is little use in drafting every Ukrainian of military age into the army either - you'd end up with an army of 4 million men, with little to do but be targets.
Could be a better idea to send them west to receive military training as artillerymen or tankers and circulate them, but such things take months or even years.
Could be a better idea to send them west to receive military training as artillerymen or tankers and circulate them, but such things take months or even years.
amadeus
burning out his fuse out here alone
Is there a Marshall Zhukov St. in Kharkiv? There are ATB stores in the city but just looking at pictures I couldn't tell where this was.
saamohod
Deity
There are Zhukov streets in almost any city in Ukraine, as well as ATB. Whether it was filmed in Kharkiv or not is irrelevant, because "people are drafted to army in the streets" is bs.
amadeus
burning out his fuse out here alone
I just like checking to see if the basics presented are true before going on to examine the validity of any claims.
I very much doubt the military is issuing draft orders to people going to the store, and even if they were, why would you try to approach a store where two military personnel are handing out conscription papers?
Akka
Moody old mage.
Even if they were conscripting, that's actually legal and legitimate when the nation is invaded, unlike forced conscription for a "special military operation".
It's just again an attempt to pretend like Russia isn't "any worse" by trying very hard to bend facts in order to find false equivalencies. I mean, by now you should all be pretty much used to it.
It's just again an attempt to pretend like Russia isn't "any worse" by trying very hard to bend facts in order to find false equivalencies. I mean, by now you should all be pretty much used to it.
Ivano-Frankovsk, draft papers are given at a gas station.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GuAH2RXrWAk
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GuAH2RXrWAk
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
What posting these says is: "Look what we made them do!"
Kupe Navigator
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And what is so special about that? Even in Korea this would happen should we get invaded by foreign power.
@innonimatu The logical conclusion of your argument seems to be that any time a state with a stronger military threatens a weaker one, the weaker state should immediately capitulate and negotiate a surrender.
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
The Ukrainian city resisting Russian occupation
When Russian forces arrived in the southern Ukrainian city of Melitopol in February, they were met with stiff resistance from residents.
Locals tried to block armoured vehicles, and people waved Ukrainian flags as Russian troops rolled in to occupy the city.
When the troops started to crack down on the protestors, the resistance movement evolved and new groups emerged.
From 20 March to 12 April, these "partisans eliminated 70 Russian soldiers during their night patrol," Ukraine's military Intelligence Directorate reported.
These groups are still active - last week, a Russian armoured train was reportedly derailed. Two Russian soldiers were found dead in the street days earlier.
Ivan Fedorov, the mayor of Melitopol, says these attacks were organised by partisan groups. "It's the job of our partisans, our secret services and our soldiers. They do this job together," he tells the BBC.
In response, the Russians are desperately trying to crush all resistance. They are searching houses and detaining people, residents say, often at random.
These resistance groups, however, are only a small part of the movement.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61546571
When Russian forces arrived in the southern Ukrainian city of Melitopol in February, they were met with stiff resistance from residents.
Locals tried to block armoured vehicles, and people waved Ukrainian flags as Russian troops rolled in to occupy the city.
When the troops started to crack down on the protestors, the resistance movement evolved and new groups emerged.
From 20 March to 12 April, these "partisans eliminated 70 Russian soldiers during their night patrol," Ukraine's military Intelligence Directorate reported.
These groups are still active - last week, a Russian armoured train was reportedly derailed. Two Russian soldiers were found dead in the street days earlier.
Ivan Fedorov, the mayor of Melitopol, says these attacks were organised by partisan groups. "It's the job of our partisans, our secret services and our soldiers. They do this job together," he tells the BBC.
In response, the Russians are desperately trying to crush all resistance. They are searching houses and detaining people, residents say, often at random.
These resistance groups, however, are only a small part of the movement.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61546571
I fully support this action, but I wonder what the media is going to do with regards to the "terrorist" designation. Will they actually admit that being a terrorist or partisan is really a question of if the speaker agrees with the cause being fought for.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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If they cannot win any way, of course. Cut the losses. That's the only rational thing. What, you thing people want to go Afghanistan "for glory"? Die for the convenience of other's strategic goals? Are you drunk on the propaganda also?
NATO's goal in Ukraine was to use it as a weapon. This war has already outright been called a "proxy war". Its aim has already been described as being about "bleeding Russia". Both on record as statemented from the US administration, which effectively sets policy in NATO. What is absent in the goals of ukranians fighting on? Protecting Ukraine. Protecting the ukranians.
It's like Churchill telling the french to fight on in 1940, to have their capital wrecked. No, they were smart to surrender and negotiate peace even though the price was high. They bounced back years later. Or even better, it's like the security guarantees given to Czechoslovakia and later Poland. There were even Dow when Poland got invaded, but there wasn't any actual invasion of Germany. The plan was to have the poles fight and die.
Is Canada reintroducing a two year universal draft? Is Canada changing its state budget in the major way it would be required if it was envisaging fighting WW3? No. Nor are any european countries, not the US. And all know that WW3 cannot be won anyway. But not even a serious conventional proxy war is on the plans. Ukranians though are expected to all die for... "glory"? For NATO bleeding Russia.
Loot at the cynicism of the whole "ukranian food exports" thing. Read this piece. Despite the link text, it's about the ukranian food exports. It is being claimed in the media that grain is "rotting in silos" and needs to be exported. Apparently these silos are worse storage than cargo ship holds, or silos on teh destination countries. Grain only rots inside ukranian silos. Despite a history of grain being the staple of much of mankind because it's easy to stiore long ter, you'se supposed that there is now a need ro quickly export all of Ukraine's stockpiled food because "it's rooting".
To cut things short, this is a lie. What is happening is that foreign governments are in a panic about food prices. Ukraine's silos are to be emptied before it surrenders - to fill western european silos.
The concern is not food security in Ukraine, is having the ukranians pay for the "help" they get with they food they still have. Because high prices. And futuire scarcity finally being factored in. And the russians get accused of looting and starving Ukraine?
It's like the essential workers fairy tale about medics, nurses, retail workers, etc during early covid waves, isn it? Pure cynicism from our rulers and their servants. They mean nothing of it. There were no raises, no improvemente of working conditions, nada.
And in this ukraine war there is no concern for the ukranian population, they're just to be used and dumped, and all the talk of "glory" is bait to get them to sacrifice themselves. From our governments, their mouthpieces throughout the media, and the poppet in Kiev.
Zardnaar
Deity
That's a lotta victim blaming there. "She made me do it your honor she was wearing a short dress".
Only if Russia is the aggressor. If it's the US or other nations, then obviously the defenders should fight with any means necessary.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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What is hard to understand, for you, is causation.
Ukraine's government has not been representative of its population for a long time now. Since 2014 and the civil wart caused by the new regime turning one half of the country against the other half. The puppet in charge now was elected on a platform of peaceful resolution of the civil war, of implementing the agreements already in place - and promptly betrayed his voters. Whom does he actually work for? Not Ukraine surely, because all this talk of "glory to Ukraine" is just goading ukranians to continue fighting a war that leads to the dissolution of Ukraine. Fighting this war is exactly the opposite of what would be the correct strategy to defend the homeland. That could only be done diplomatically. But the ship has sailed away I'm afraid.
There was one way to keep Ukraine together as one country: going back to coexistence, shaky as it had been with tensions, between its east and west. Instead its government, encouraged (to say the least) by foreign advice and promises, went for the "military solution", even announcing it was about to invade its breakaway regions, build nuclear weapons, and wanted Crimea back too. It was always clear that the military solution was as crazy was it had been for Georgia back in 2008. Ukraine is larger but the situation is the same. Subjugating separatists when those separatists are supported by a much larger country across the border is impossible. It would be impossible even if Russia had not countered with a big invasion and did cross-border support and destabilization. Europe states with colonies in Africa all learned that the hard way during the cold war when both the US and the USSR undermined their rule there. With later help in the party from China, Sweden, etc. So this is only a surprise for those in european capitals who didn't take any history lessons.
Unsurprisingly, of the major countries in Europe France and the UK were the ones with governments that could see clearly how badly this would go. The UK of course is ruled by people hell-bent on wrecking the EU no matter how, so the whole Ukraine crisis is going just fine from their point of view. France wanted to keep having an EU and did try to push for a diplomatic solution. But I thing they too were surprised when Putin lost his patience and decided that if war it was it would be a big one this time. That intelligence services head got fired for something. The others, they're just to ignorant and used to be impotent to see or plan ahead. And the US, it's distracted with the infighting in Washington and hoping from one stupidity to the next as if on auto-pilot.
Quote me if you can on encouraging "fighting for any means necessary" american aggression is hopeless wars. You have 20 years of comments here free for searching. Plenti of americ an invasions of other countries and commenting about it.
I never encourage illogical actions and pointless or counter-productive waste of lives.Do keep in mind that the US also has a history of actually getting defeated in its invasions, Afghanistan comes to mind. Ukraine is not Afghanistan.
Ukraine confirms 87 KIA after cruise missile strike against military barracks in Chernigov region. Number of wounded not specified.
https://www.ukr.net/news/details/russianaggression/91464894.html
https://www.ukr.net/news/details/russianaggression/91464894.html
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