[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: War News Thread: Round 6

[Theov]

I heard women are now called back to Ukraine so they can fight in the war.

 

[Bamspeedy]

The war started because USA don't compromisse to stop expand the boarders of NATO.

Meanwhile Russia expands their borders and then acts like a victim, and some gullible people fall for it.

 

[saamohod]

I heard women are now called back to Ukraine so they can fight in the war.

Doesn't sound true. Unless they are of some valuable military profession, in which case it doesn't matter whether they are male or female.
Care to provide a source?

 

[Verbose]

I need to disagree on that point, USA is part of conflict since the beggining.
The war started because USA don't compromisse to stop expand the boarders of NATO.
And since beginning of the war, USA made all they can, on diplomatic front, to attack Russia.
Ukraine is in the middle of a new cold war between USA and Russia.

You're just too hung up on the US to see Europe.

This started because Russia wants to tear up the entire post-WWII peaceful settlement of European politics. By literally making war.

I gather you neither know or care anything about Europe – but the Europeans do, since Russia is a direct threat to them.

So it's an inconvenience that someone like you gets the entire situation ass-backwards, because of US involvement, but it does not change that Russia started a war, and the rest is about defending against Russia. NATO is just a means that that end.

Sure, maybe it would be more... convenient... if the US played no part in European security (that's because of WWII, and WWI, of course). That might be doable too, if necessary. But unless the US removes itself (it might... Trump etc.), it seems perfectly redundant to do so just because of the inconvenience of someone like you going cross-eyed when squinting at the map of Europe because you are myopically focused on the US. That would be a silly reason.

 

[citizenofdoom]

Whether a country chooses to join NATO or not is none of Russia's business. Nothing to do with "compromise".

They see that punching Ukraine at that time yields better benefits than not punching Ukraine then.
Why invest more in the military in the future because of the extended border instead of just literally taking over Ukraine?
Well, at present, many people see that as a bad gamble.
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Didn't expect/want the war lasts this long as the frequency of attacks on civilian increased.
What is left to take a burnt place? And what is left to ally with a broken economy?

 

[Remorseless1]

So...what now? Tell the Ukrainians to stop fighting?

 

[Joij21]

The aim to create a change in position was abandoned long ago.

Anti-vax, Trump really did win, january 6th was a peaceful gathering and Russia invaded Ukraine with the best intentions aren't debatable sentiments. They're sentiments based on alternative facts.

There's no debating that.

Then why do you still insist on arguing with the other side?

 

[Joij21]

Again we're all still arguing. All acting like a bunch of NPCs.

Look no one's position is clearly changing!!!

 

[Birdjaguar]

So...what now? Tell the Ukrainians to stop fighting?

If they surrendered peacefully now, they could start their train ride to a long Siberian vacation sooner! Fun in the snow and cold like rich folks have in the Alps!

 

[Birdjaguar]

Then why do you still insist on arguing with the other side?

Again we're all still arguing. All acting like a bunch of NPCs.

Look no one's position is clearly changing!!!

Moderator Action: We've had these Ukraine threads for almost two years; there is a pattern to the news and emotions expressed. It is the staff's job to monitor and manage what goes on. There is no need for you to get involved in that side of things. You could always start a new thread about the nature of forum discussions on difficult topics if you like. Thanks.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Next time we will read is Russia losing the war was Putin's original genial plan. And i am sure Ukrainians are immensely grateful towards pro-russians for how worried they are about Ukraine's future and hate the west for helping them to defend their country. LoL

Returning to war news, the number of videos about Ukrainian soldiers taking and clearing Russian trenches have multiplied in last days on Twitter. Otoh i am watching a video by some Spanish military analyst who is usually pretty accurate, and it looks like Ukraine has finally some very serious attack forces much more powerful than last year. I think the counter offensive is pretty close but terrain is still too muddy. The question is where will they attack. There is some holes in Russian defenses at the south but the weakest point is at the north. I bet they will try to make a feint at the south and the real breakthrough at the north. Imagine if Ukraine liberate Bakhmut in a week after Russia needing 9 months to invade it partially losing tenths of thousand men. I wonder if even Putin could survive that.

 

[Akka]

The war started because USA don't compromisse to stop expand the boarders of NATO.

 

[Zardnaar]

Also note Ukraine didn't join NATO and couldn't due to Russias actions. That's an excuse and justification.

Russian invaded Ukraine.

It's not a rational response nor are they trying to change the government they're trying to annex territory.

If they had a problem with Ukraine foreign policy suggest they had other options more appropriate to what Ukraine might do eg sanctions, cutting off gas supplies etc.

But since they had no intention of peace or whatever...

 

[citizenofdoom]

So...what now? Tell the Ukrainians to stop fighting?

Russians should stop bombing urban places because it not only makes ordinary people suffer but also decreases the resources they needed to continue the war effort. They probably bomb just because they can.
Btw, do you see any benefit of Ukrainians stopping their fight? I don't see any reason. Against an enemy with a load of resources to sustain the war (Russians), they (Ukrainians) have to keep attacking to make miracles.
Ukrainians stop fighting or surrender = their life worse than hell; Russians probably don't see Ukraine as something develop-able even if they conquered it because not only the Russian economy is in bad shape but also they start the war with the vision of Ukraine as a future warzone... Remember their statement of NATO border expansion and such... conquering Ukraine + developing the conquered land -> increased border.

 

[Remorseless1]

Russians should stop bombing urban places because it not only makes ordinary people suffer but also decreases the resources they needed to continue the war effort. They probably bomb just because they can.
Btw, do you see any benefit of Ukrainians stopping their fight? I don't see any reason. Against an enemy with a load of resources to sustain the war (Russians), they (Ukrainians) have to keep attacking to make miracles.
Ukrainians stop fighting or surrender = their life worse than hell; Russians probably don't see Ukraine as something develop-able even if they conquered it because not only the Russian economy is in bad shape but also they start the war with the vision of Ukraine as a future warzone... Remember their statement of NATO border expansion and such... conquering Ukraine + developing the conquered land -> increased border.

That was a response to our Brazilian friend's suggestion that Ukraine should negotiate an end to the killing. I think the Ukrainians would keep fighting even if they weren't being aided by NATO. no one wants to beat Russian slave.

 

[REDY]

People in this thread may still remember my rather controversial statement about critical thinking...

There is a good animation to explain it.:

 

[Henri Christophe]

There is a good animation to explain it.:

I think the main question is about Donbass. What Russia don't will stop untill have at least this territory. (Despite they anex more then Donbass) I guess Zaporizhia is included.
And Zelensky think is a good idea also revindicate the Crimea back to Ukraine, since it was a conquest of 2014 without great international recognition.
Concede some land to Russia will end the war, but will make the country vulnerable to future invasions. So, Zelensky decided to go to war to protect all inches of Ukraine boarder. But Donbass problem will still be a problem to Ukraine, because the separatist moviment is very old there.

 

[Birdjaguar]

So, Zelensky decided to go to war to protect all inches of Ukraine boarder

Zelensky did not decide to go to war. Putin decided to invade Ukraine in Feb 2022. There was no war prior to that.

 

[REDY]

I think the main question is about Donbass. What Russia don't will stop untill have at least this territory. (Despite they anex more then Donbass) I guess Zaporizhia is included.
And Zelensky think is a good idea also revindicate the Crimea back to Ukraine, since it was a conquest of 2014 without great international recognition.
Concede some land to Russia will end the war, but will make the country vulnerable to future invasions. So, Zelensky decided to go to war to protect all inches of Ukraine boarder. But Donbass problem will still be a problem to Ukraine, because the separatist moviment is very old there.

The separatist movement in 2014 wasn't very old. Without Russian aggresssion, it would have same relevance as O Sul é o Meu País in Brasil.
I thought there would be some Munich Agreement demanding a part of the land for peace, but there was no such clear demand or condition.
European governments were too soft and open to compromise, therefore Russia had no other option than war???
It's surprising that Ukraine, Sweden, Finland, and Moldova, who didn't want to join NATO before, now want to join. It seems that NATO aggression knows no boundaries.

 

[saamohod]

So, Zelensky decided to go to war to protect all inches of Ukraine boarder.

Russia attacked Ukraine.
A Rússia atacou a Ucrânia.
Subject - verb - object

In other news:

The Linguist Has Spoken

Spoiler :