Single Player bugs and crashes - After the 24th of February 2014

[Thunderbrd]

I've seen a mini like that before from myself. I believe it is the reflection of a MAF rather than a normal CTD. The mini itself, if you'll notice, has a size of 0 kb. I think it's because the crash represented a sort of memory problem. This is what got me to raise an alarm on the memory issue I discussed last night. It's good to see that the build was not on my OOS debugging dll - it at least lets me know it wasn't only a localized issue.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@FaustMouse we may have discovered why your buildings are not working or at least why they cant be built by the great people. There may have been a change in the way the XML is read. Unfortunately it means that many of the religions and most of my stuff is also broken. We are looking into when and what to see what we can do to fix things. It looks like there was some miscommunication or I missed the implications of a suggested change or something.

 

[strategyonly]

Did something happen to getting Great Generals, I have NONE so far and the action icon(pic1) has gone through about 4 already??

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Did something happen to getting Great Generals, I have NONE so far and the action icon(pic1) has gone through about 4 already??

The same bar is used for Great Generals and Great Hunters. You get points towards each but when you are due to get a new one you get which ever reached the number of points. Then the total needed is raised for both with you keeping the points you have accumulated for the type you did not get and the one you did get being set back to zero like normal. It does seem a bit odd and is completely different to the other Great People but then Generals always were. I think it would be nice if the bar was red if the GG was ahead and green if the Great Hunter is. That way when we introduce Great Admirals we can use orange or something that colour blind people wont confuse with the current colours.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@FaustMouse we may have discovered why your buildings are not working or at least why they cant be built by the great people. There may have been a change in the way the XML is read. Unfortunately it means that many of the religions and most of my stuff is also broken. We are looking into when and what to see what we can do to fix things. It looks like there was some miscommunication or I missed the implications of a suggested change or something.

You're taking it well my friend.

True that if we can identify WHEN it took place (down to the revision) I can probably figure out from there exactly what the change was in code terms and may well be able to safely revert that particular adjustment. The problem is I think it was done nearly a year ago. Which means trying to identify at which revision this took place will be a nightmare.

The same bar is used for Great Generals and Great Hunters. You get points towards each but when you are due to get a new one you get which ever reached the number of points. Then the total needed is raised for both with you keeping the points you have accumulated for the type you did not get and the one you did get being set back to zero like normal. It does seem a bit odd and is completely different to the other Great People but then Generals always were. I think it would be nice if the bar was red if the GG was ahead and green if the Great Hunter is. That way when we introduce Great Admirals we can use orange or something that colour blind people wont confuse with the current colours.

That sounds cool. There really should be enough colors that exist that we can use for the additional ones to come. And we might be able to adjust the icon that shows on that bar to reflect the type as well. I'm not sure where that's handled but I highly suspect it's in the python that's generating the bar.

One very positive way this is working out is that the early phase of the game is generally dominated by Hunters (which are in many ways more valuable then given the +5 food and the greater need for Explorers) while later on combatants would be getting far more interaction so you start replacing the hunters with generals.

I'm quite happy with the dynamic as experienced in play so far and that includes the interesting side strategy of restricting yourself from sending out too many recon units if you want to get an early general. The general won't have as great a benefit to your nation in the beginning but if you really like to have that extra first promo and/or you like to have a strong commander that's been developed over many years of being part of a successful hunting party then sending out some early combatants like stone throwers and/or brutes would be a very deliberate strategy to achieve these results.

 

[strategyonly]

The same bar is used for Great Generals and Great Hunters. You get points towards each but when you are due to get a new one you get which ever reached the number of points. Then the total needed is raised for both with you keeping the points you have accumulated for the type you did not get and the one you did get being set back to zero like normal. It does seem a bit odd and is completely different to the other Great People but then Generals always were. I think it would be nice if the bar was red if the GG was ahead and green if the Great Hunter is. That way when we introduce Great Admirals we can use orange or something that color blind people wont confuse with the current colors.

So i am getting G Hunters instead of Generals I like the Hunters when getting them, but i need the Generals more. I have fought a TON of fights so far and deserve a General, but is this then for not??

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

You're taking it well my friend.

I a not really. I just type then don't post what I type.

True that if we can identify WHEN it took place (down to the revision) I can probably figure out from there exactly what the change was in code terms and may well be able to safely revert that particular adjustment. The problem is I think it was done nearly a year ago. Which means trying to identify at which revision this took place will be a nightmare.

It can't have been that long ago as it was fine when I started working on the Myth changes before the last release. I am sure I was using the normal WoC stuff then and it was working, but then I am getting old and forgetful.

So i am getting G Hunters instead of Generals I like the Hunters when getting them, but i need the Generals more. I have fought a TON of fights so far and deserve a General, but is this then for not??

Then stop using hunters to fight your battles, use normal troops.

 

[Faustmouse]

In my game I used units to hunt all the time and I didn't get a single GH. So it works fine I guess

 

[Chaktor]

Release version :
Cant access to BUG screen, it take infinite time and I forced to kill process

I have the same problem. At begin of a game, it is no problem to access the BUG screen. But when the game progresses, the time rises until the screen appears.
Now, in the classical era, the BUG option appears never. I have to kill the civ 4 process with the taskmanger then.

EDIT:
I play the v34 release version.

 

[Pef]

New bugs on v34

cities cannot build airports
but they are required to build other buildings

also , a critical resource Manganese
cannot be mined or found anywhere except worldbuilder

also food inside cities is wasted (too much ) , some big cities waste 2000 food
farmscraper (farm) improvement doesnt allow to get rice or whatever grain

a critical building , commercial spaceport , cannot get built due to latitude

bug buildings arent buildable , even if you place bugs and forts on them on map

 

[olduser]

You're taking it well my friend.

True that if we can identify WHEN it took place (down to the revision) I can probably figure out from there exactly what the change was in code terms and may well be able to safely revert that particular adjustment. The problem is I think it was done nearly a year ago. Which means trying to identify at which revision this took place will be a nightmare.

It can't have been that long ago as it was fine when I started working on the Myth changes before the last release. I am sure I was using the normal WoC stuff then and it was working, but then I am getting old and forgetful.

The problem is that not all enumeration Tags are programmed to add things from modules, many of them just overwrite. This makes it seem that something was changed but in reality it was always that way.

Example for a adding Tag is UnitInfo:Builds

	for ( int i = 0; i < GC.getNumBuildInfos(); i++)
	{
		if ( getBuilds(i) == bDefault && pClassInfo->getBuilds(i) != bDefault)
		{
			if ( NULL == m_pbBuilds )
			{
				CvXMLLoadUtility::InitList(&m_pbBuilds,GC.getNumBuildInfos(),bDefault);
			}
			m_pbBuilds[i] = pClassInfo->getBuilds(i);
		}
	}

and a example for a overwriting tag is UnitInfo:PrereqOrBuildings

	if ( m_aePrereqOrBuildings.empty() )
	{
		int iNum = pClassInfo->getPrereqOrBuildingsNum();
		for (int i = 0; i < iNum; i++)
			m_aePrereqOrBuildings.push_back(pClassInfo->getPrereqOrBuilding(i));
	}

This means that someone has to go through all the copyNonDefaults functions and change all tags to add and not overwrite.

 

[Thunderbrd]

So i am getting G Hunters instead of Generals I like the Hunters when getting them, but i need the Generals more. I have fought a TON of fights so far and deserve a General, but is this then for not??

All units produce points towards a Great Military Person.
Recon and Hunter (summed up as 'Explorer') unit combats produce points for Great Hunters. All other units produce points for Great Generals.

You can see in-game how the points are adding up for you at any time. Hover the mouse pointer over the Great General progress bar and take a look at the information you see in the hover information panel.

The problem is that not all enumeration Tags are programmed to add things from modules, many of them just overwrite. This makes it seem that something was changed but in reality it was always that way.

Example for a adding Tag is UnitInfo:Builds

	for ( int i = 0; i < GC.getNumBuildInfos(); i++)
	{
		if ( getBuilds(i) == bDefault && pClassInfo->getBuilds(i) != bDefault)
		{
			if ( NULL == m_pbBuilds )
			{
				CvXMLLoadUtility::InitList(&m_pbBuilds,GC.getNumBuildInfos(),bDefault);
			}
			m_pbBuilds[i] = pClassInfo->getBuilds(i);
		}
	}

and a example for a overwriting tag is UnitInfo:PrereqOrBuildings

	if ( m_aePrereqOrBuildings.empty() )
	{
		int iNum = pClassInfo->getPrereqOrBuildingsNum();
		for (int i = 0; i < iNum; i++)
			m_aePrereqOrBuildings.push_back(pClassInfo->getPrereqOrBuilding(i));
	}

This means that someone has to go through all the copyNonDefaults functions and change all tags to add and not overwrite.

A big job (somewhat) but one I'm willing to do. I'll add that to my fix it list right up near the top. Won't be solved overnight but if it makes the rest of the team's life easier it doesn't bother me to take care of those.

I heartily thank you Alberts for the examples and the diagnosis. That in and of itself helps tremendously.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The problem is that not all enumeration Tags are programmed to add things from modules, many of them just overwrite. This makes it seem that something was changed but in reality it was always that way.

OK makes sense except I a sure that upgrade classes used to be additive when I added subdued animals all those years ago.

I think there may be two problems with the same result.

For example each of the custom religions adds a shrine to what the Great Prophet can build. This working fine the GP ends up being able to build all the shrines. However faustmouse uses the same structure to add other buildings and they are not being added.

Upgrade classes is not acting the same way at all. Modules loaded later are overwriting earlier ones not adding to it. It needs to change I think.

 

[olduser]

OK makes sense except I a sure that upgrade classes used to be additive when I added subdued animals all those years ago.

I think there may be two problems with the same result.

For example each of the custom religions adds a shrine to what the Great Prophet can build. This working fine the GP ends up being able to build all the shrines. However faustmouse uses the same structure to add other buildings and they are not being added.

Upgrade classes is not acting the same way at all. Modules loaded later are overwriting earlier ones not adding to it. It needs to change I think.

It seems like more problems but for me it is exactly what the different programming may cause. The difference why it is working in one case and not in another could just come from modules loaded afterwards. It also could change if changes are made in a module loaded afterwards. But it is possible that there is another problem hidden somewhere.

 

[olduser]

For example each of the custom religions adds a shrine to what the Great Prophet can build. This working fine the GP ends up being able to build all the shrines. However faustmouse uses the same structure to add other buildings and they are not being added.

What Buildings don't work? faustmouse's are shown in the pedia here if they just can't be built that is a another problem.

Also i did some testing with the Upgrade classes and it seems to be working does anyone have a not working example.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

What Buildings don't work? 's are shown in the pedia here if they just can't be built that is a another problem.

Also i did some testing with the Upgrade classes and it seems to be working does anyone have a not working example.

faustmouse's building buttons are not showing up at all for the GP to build. All the shrine ones are even the ones you can't build in the city but they are greyed out as expected.

I think TB changed the XML but the Scout could not upgrade to a Guide because of the XML in the Subdue Animals unit infos file had it upgrading to a tracker. All you need do is uncomment that code to see the problem.

 

[Faustmouse]

faustmouse's building buttons are not showing up at all for the GP to build. All the shrine ones are even the ones you can't build in the city but they are greyed out as expected.

Oh man... Well, at least we know then, right?
What about the volcano events? I found some bugs in the events (and some were reported) that I want to fix sometime.

 

[charlesb96]

Does the Barbarian Generals option have to be turned on in order to get GH's? I do not like turning that on because GG's show up WAY to often, even killing animals generates GG points. Can we get the separate options of GH and Barbarian Generals? Then only hunters will generate GH points while everything else will only generate GG points if attacking other civs.

 

[Thunderbrd]

faustmouse's building buttons are not showing up at all for the GP to build. All the shrine ones are even the ones you can't build in the city but they are greyed out as expected.

I think TB changed the XML but the Scout could not upgrade to a Guide because of the XML in the Subdue Animals unit infos file had it upgrading to a tracker. All you need do is uncomment that code to see the problem.

I didn't comment it out - I added the Guide to the list on the module. To see it in action just remove the guide from the module update.

Does the Barbarian Generals option have to be turned on in order to get GH's? I do not like turning that on because GG's show up WAY to often, even killing animals generates GG points. Can we get the separate options of GH and Barbarian Generals? Then only hunters will generate GH points while everything else will only generate GG points if attacking other civs.

It does not have to be on but it'd be difficult to get it to happen without it on. Perhaps if you had start as minors on as well it might be more possible but the lion's share of xp earned by explorers is going to come from barbs and animals - when at war you'd be mostly using combatants so GGs would be far more common to the point that it would be a great struggle to get GHs and it would take a concerted effort to throw explorer units into combat with non-barb units. My suggestion would be to go ahead and play with Barb Generals on... this new feature rebalances it nicely by making most of the early Great Military births Great Hunters unless you favor sending Combatants out to hunt.

The recent change to the Brute would inspire this a little more... If you really want a GG early you can send out a Brute and a Stone Thrower stack for a fair degree of early survivability... as much as you can get anyhow. Brutes are now cheaper to build and are particularly good against the random human or neanderthal barbarian threat (such as the villagers are hostile results.) But they do kinda suck against animals so a stone thrower with them can take on a wider range of challenges, particularly if you can get your stone thrower to be very good at withdrawal (and you're playing with defender withdraw.) But this is the kind of risky strategy work that would be necessary to get early GGs rather than having them birthed as Great Hunters instead (which would happen if you rightfully(due to the much improved chances of overall success) rely on wanderers, scouts and chasers and their upgrades for hunting and exploration.) I often send along a clubman-stone axeman to dispatch the defenders of goody huts and to protect against neanderthals but the Brute now becomes a reasonable substitute for this if you're building the explorer stack earlier than clubman have been unlocked. This also helps me to accumulate enough GG pts that I'm not overwhelmed with only GHs at the beginning so I can get a little exp generation in my capital from the rare GG. It's a slower stack, 1 hunter, 1 scout, 1 melee, but it's both survivable and can overcome all the challenges the map has to offer thus the loss of speed is usually worthwhile in exchange for added longevity. And you can often play some interesting map strategies between the three...

Sorry... I digress into a deep strategic discussion in the midst of the debug thread. My apologies.

 

[strategyonly]

All units produce points towards a Great Military Person.
Recon and Hunter (summed up as 'Explorer') unit combats produce points for Great Hunters. All other units produce points for Great Generals.

You can see in-game how the points are adding up for you at any time. Hover the mouse pointer over the Great General progress bar and take a look at the information you see in the hover information panel.

Did NOT know that, sorry guys?? But it doe make sense now, thx.