Single Player bugs and crashes - After the 29th of March

[Thunderbrd]

I have some insight on #2 there... apparently the leaders are showing both their DL traits and non-DL traits. This may or may not be an xml issue but I'm inclined to take a look.

And the 3rd one is certainly a part of the multi-feature mod still.

 

[Talin2009]

Updated SVN today

I am unable to build Culture (Swazi) in my city of Jerusalem. I have Iron Working researched and Lead Ore with mine and route built near city. I have Native culture african built in other cities.


I am unable to build Culture (Syrian) in my city of Najran. I have Fermentation researched and Olives with orchard and route built near city. I have Native culture middle eastern as i am playing Turks.

Both of those are not yet built by anybody. And when i turn off show buildable only buildings in city window they are showing as non-buildable but no red text explaining why.

Savegame attached.

 

[dexter_inside]

What's happening when you're loading the save? I think you have to be on minimal settings for it to load

How about rev 5295 ? It says that Koshling fixed the bug that has prevented some saves from loading since rev 4597

With minimal gfx it uses 1811 megs of memory.

 

[strategyonly]

Another TXT error: When using "Join City.

 

[Whisperr]

I have a couple of problems with resource/improvements.

* The Plant Gathering Camps on Hemp, Tobacco, Opium, Incense etc, are upgrading to plantations long before researching Calender.

* The Plant Gathering Camp on my Opium was giving 5 , when it upgraded to a plantation it went down to 4 .

* Incense is revealed by Mysticism, but not enabled to Calender, I do not receive any of the benefits from it and cannot trade it. If there is no advantage with incense until Calender why is there an additional bonus on the incense improvement before then?

 

[bernard76]

hi , i try to put civ c2c for long time i see recently newversion 29 i put in my computer it's work but stop around 200 A.D and tell me : failed to allocate video memory . please try to reduce your graphics settings . file:\main\civillization\sdks\gamebryo 2.0\corelibs\NiDx9 source texture sata . ccp,line:321 i only play civ and i'm realy happy if someone help . sorry for my bad english i'm french. do you have someone in c2c forum speak french . you can add me . i'm not good with computer too.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have a couple of problems with resource/improvements.

* The Plant Gathering Camps on Hemp, Tobacco, Opium, Incense etc, are upgrading to plantations long before researching Calender.

* The Plant Gathering Camp on my Opium was giving 5 , when it upgraded to a plantation it went down to 4 .

* Incense is revealed by Mysticism, but not enabled to Calender, I do not receive any of the benefits from it and cannot trade it. If there is no advantage with incense until Calender why is there an additional bonus on the incense improvement before then?

Most plantations were moved to before Calendar quit awhile ago. It maybe that they are still called Plantations when they are actually something different.

Once I have gone through all the terrains and terrain features. Then improvements on terrains and terrain features. Then making sure that when improvements upgrade to ones that remove forest/jungle etc that they do. Then I was going to go through the map resources improvement chains for inconsistencies like you mention in point 2.

3) You get the commerce benefits from working the tile. So you get local benefits even if you can't trade.

 

[JosEPh_II]

hi , i try to put civ c2c for long time i see recently newversion 29 i put in my computer it's work but stop around 200 A.D and tell me : failed to allocate video memory . please try to reduce your graphics settings . file:\main\civillization\sdks\gamebryo 2.0\corelibs\NiDx9 source texture sata . ccp,line:321 i only play civ and i'm realy happy if someone help . sorry for my bad english i'm french. do you have someone in c2c forum speak french . you can add me . i'm not good with computer too.

How much Ram does your computer have? And how big a map and number of starting AI?

If you have less than 2GB you need to use the viewport to help play. If you have 4GB of ram you may need to update your video driver.

If you play a huge or bigger map with more than 25 AI and if youHave REVolutions On or Barb Civ On you can run into s shortage of Ram with less than 4GB. Your Vidoe card should have at least 1GB ram itself.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

3) You get the commerce benefits from working the tile. So you get local benefits even if you can't trade.

Yes and the point being made is that this is inconsistent with the premise that we don't yet know what it is we have on hand here in this resource (take incense for instance).

In otherwords, if you are getting extra commerce from the incense bonus on the tile, but you don't have knowledge of its benefits enough to think to trade it... why are you gaining any additional Commerce? What's this from? Sales of a bush being collected for who knows what reason because nobody knows its worth anything yet?

My personal view on this issue is that Incense being 'enabled' at calendar is what doesn't make sense. Particularly when the pre-plantation improvements that you can build on an incense plot state that they give access to incense, even though you will never have access from them until you have the ability to get Plantations. If you can't get access to the incense until then, there's no justification for an incense tile to enable anything more than what an unresourced tile would allow.

 

[Yudishtira]

Yes and the point being made is that this is inconsistent with the premise that we don't yet know what it is we have on hand here in this resource (take incense for instance).

In otherwords, if you are getting extra commerce from the incense bonus on the tile, but you don't have knowledge of its benefits enough to think to trade it... why are you gaining any additional Commerce? What's this from? Sales of a bush being collected for who knows what reason because nobody knows its worth anything yet?

My personal view on this issue is that Incense being 'enabled' at calendar is what doesn't make sense. Particularly when the pre-plantation improvements that you can build on an incense plot state that they give access to incense, even though you will never have access from them until you have the ability to get Plantations. If you can't get access to the incense until then, there's no justification for an incense tile to enable anything more than what an unresourced tile would allow.

FWIW I think it's fair enough getting a commerce bonus before you get the resource. I'm thinking of examples like roses or gold. They were valued long before they could be put to any practical use.

I agree with you about Calendar. We knew enough about the seasons for a Plantation in the Prehistoric. Stonehenge is just one of hundreds of ritual structures that were aligned to the solstices in the 'Stone Age'. Which requires more 'advanced' knowledge of the seasons than any crop does.

 

[Thunderbrd]

They were valued long before they could be put to any practical use.

As they were valued, they were traded.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@TBd Attached is a save that shows the change of exp threshold problem when I do a recalc. I am using standard/default traits one of which means that I need more exp to gain a level. When do a recalc I no longer need the extra points so many of my units can get another promotion.

This was one of the bugs fixed in this last update.

However, apparently there's a nasty display bug somewhere in trait parsing that I found that I'll now need to address... grr..

 

[God-Emperor]

As they were valued, they were traded.

Not necessarily in any significant quantity. Just because you know that the sap that leaks out from some desert tree produces nice smells when you burn it does not mean you know how to raise the trees and produce the dried sap (i.e. incense) in the industrial quantities needed to trade it to enough people in every city you have to provide a happiness bonus in them.

Having a bonus means you are producing it in relatively large quantities that you can distribute to get full use of the product in every city in your empire. But things can be useful in the smaller quantities you can get just from gathering the naturally produced amounts without knowing techniques to cultivate the plant and extract the product in greater quantities without killing the plant (in the case of something like incense, which doesn't work like harvesting wheat), resulting in a little extra commerce from having some population working the plot (if you do) but no other benefit.

So I can see how you can get some benefit from a resource on a plot before you can actually get full access to the resource.

 

[Thunderbrd]

GE, I always love your discussion style. Very powerful debate commentary. I'm not being cynical here... I mean that. It's REALLY appreciated. You've almost got me convinced of the point you're making.

BUT I want to mention two more points that the new perspective you offer brings up.

1) This issue was brought to the fore when we realized we had Plantations on our incense plots long before calendar, which 'enables' incense. By this, I take it to mean that large amounts of incense are being harvested BUT they don't have a clue how to process it into something useful yet. So if your statements are to be taken as clarification of what's taking place here, then the fact that plantations are on that plot simply doesn't make sense and the plantations for incense are being unlocked too early, or the incense is being unlocked too late.

2) Although it would take a huge amount of programming to achieve this, what your saying is that the city there actually does have localized access to that resource. Thus, while it cannot produce enough of it to trade, it does have enough for its own citizens to benefit, and therefore other effects that derive from having such access in a city should ensue, would it not? This means you'd have an additional happiness from the Graveyard and Sage's Hut (which gives +1 happiness with access to Incense) in the city that at least has the resource being worked in its vicinity, wouldn't it?

Please don't take me as niggling over a pain in the ass point here - its just that this issue causes some player confusion and the rationale could be better thought out. For all the deep thinking we've done in C2C, the devil in the detail stuff like this is not unworthy of note. And its fun to debate when there's such great commenters replying on the subject!

 

[Whisperr]

Not sure if this TXT CODE problem has been reported before.

On a sidenote, has the problem with the Barbarian Civs when becoming a nation being unviable because of distance to palace costs, been fixed?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@Whisperr your comments on incense could just as easily be made on squash. Both are revealed long before they are enabled for trade. Civ III had the notion of local, national and international trade in resources and you could tell where you got each one from. In Civ IV this was reduced to revealed (= available locally) and enabled (=available for trade). We work with what we have.

If I had it my way shrimp, lobster and shell fish (clams) would all be revealed very early but not available for trade until refrigeration, since that is more realistic.

No that we have vicinity working we can have real local trade and so add buildings to give the local benefits at revealed. I suggested this but was told it was too complex.

 

[Sgtslick]

SgtSlick: (See attached 2)

No idea bro, never seen that before. Could be something to do with developing leader option & scenario or something?

 

[Whisperr]

@Whisperr your comments on incense could just as easily be made on squash. Both are revealed long before they are enabled for trade. Civ III had the notion of local, national and international trade in resources and you could tell where you got each one from. In Civ IV this was reduced to revealed (= available locally) and enabled (=available for trade). We work with what we have.

If I had it my way shrimp, lobster and shell fish (clams) would all be revealed very early but not available for trade until refrigeration, since that is more realistic.

No that we have vicinity working we can have real local trade and so add buildings to give the local benefits at revealed. I suggested this but was told it was too complex.

Ok, TB and I have differing interpretations on what you have said, so he is going to follow up with his answer.

From what you are saying I see that incense should be available in the city (locally) that has the incense. The only benefit I see being derived by that city is 7 from the tile. Incense is not on the list of resources for the city, and the buildings, such as Sage's Hut and Graveyard are not receiving the 1 bonus from the incense. I should also note that there is a mud path on the tile, and the incense is on the tile next to the city tile and being worked.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Whisperr your comments on incense could just as easily be made on squash. Both are revealed long before they are enabled for trade. Civ III had the notion of local, national and international trade in resources and you could tell where you got each one from. In Civ IV this was reduced to revealed (= available locally) and enabled (=available for trade). We work with what we have.

If I had it my way shrimp, lobster and shell fish (clams) would all be revealed very early but not available for trade until refrigeration, since that is more realistic.

No that we have vicinity working we can have real local trade and so add buildings to give the local benefits at revealed. I suggested this but was told it was too complex.

I think the perceivable discrepancies we're pointing at suggest that 'your way' in both of those statements are absolutely the right (and only right) way.

What I'm hearing is you saying at revealed, we can see it and we can put an improvement on it but we don't get the actual resource. As Whisperr points out, the resource is not being considered accessed even in just that city, so what 'local' access must mean in your first paragraph is its being traded in the city enough to produce some commerce value (and that's pretty much it.)

I'm also hearing you say that we CAN have local only access to resources (which I was not aware of) via some building tags. Thus we can have an autobuilt building that states we have local access to a resource that can be triggered by having an appropriate improvement on that resource in the local city vicinity, right? If that's the way we need to do it to enable true local access, then I'm totally in agreement that this is a good idea.

I'm thinking the really problematic thing here too was the fact that we have somehow unlocked plantations of some kinds while having seen in Calendar that it unlocks plantations but we haven't gotten to Calendar yet. You stated that this was because there are multiple types of plantations and they are all universally being called, in the text reference: "Plantation" right? So this is horribly confusing in play.

Might I then inquire who would have this on their agenda to correct so that they are all, in-game, uniquely named to avoid confusion? As a player, I find this kind of thing makes it really tough to figure out what's going on or rather what should be going on. If help is needed in this department, we may want to try to enlist some.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I think the perceivable discrepancies we're pointing at suggest that 'your way' in both of those statements are absolutely the right (and only right) way.

What I'm hearing is you saying at revealed, we can see it and we can put an improvement on it but we don't get the actual resource. As Whisperr points out, the resource is not being considered accessed even in just that city, so what 'local' access must mean in your first paragraph is its being traded in the city enough to produce some commerce value (and that's pretty much it.)

I'm also hearing you say that we CAN have local only access to resources (which I was not aware of) via some building tags. Thus we can have an autobuilt building that states we have local access to a resource that can be triggered by having an appropriate improvement on that resource in the local city vicinity, right? If that's the way we need to do it to enable true local access, then I'm totally in agreement that this is a good idea.

I'm thinking the really problematic thing here too was the fact that we have somehow unlocked plantations of some kinds while having seen in Calendar that it unlocks plantations but we haven't gotten to Calendar yet. You stated that this was because there are multiple types of plantations and they are all universally being called, in the text reference: "Plantation" right? So this is horribly confusing in play.

Might I then inquire who would have this on their agenda to correct so that they are all, in-game, uniquely named to avoid confusion? As a player, I find this kind of thing makes it really tough to figure out what's going on or rather what should be going on. If help is needed in this department, we may want to try to enlist some.

It is not possible in Civ IV to have incense only show up in one city. We can simulate it with auto build buildings but there would probably have to be many.

Plantations have been moved all over the place but as one improvement on different resources.

I was going to go through all the terrains and terrain features to make sure sure they are interacting correctly. Especially the terraform improvements/features.

I was then going to check that the correct improvements can be built on the correct terrains and terrain features at the correct technologies. Marsh is a problem.

Then there is the need to make sure that improvements upgrade correctly, ie if forest/jungle should be removed and the total income goes up not down (except for forest removal).

However this takes time away from the era start balance and building free at tech stuff I would like to do.