Single Player bugs and crashes v35 plus (SVN) - After the 18th of August 2014

[Pit2015]

You are hugely exaggerating the problems Montezuma is having here. -85 gold per turn at 95% research, with 17000 in the bank. Even if he doesn't reduce research, his reserve will last him 200 turns, which is kind of a lot (what speed are you playing on?).

In my scenario the AI gets 20000 gold on ethernal speed so they secure from getting bankrupt to early, read my scenario text... link in my signature. Montezuma is down already to 17000 gold after it was balanced pretty well, meens if the AI start with 0 gold they will be bankruft very fast as crime works now. Even if the AI changes at this point to +100% gold it will still lose -82 gold. Also if you dont build any crime raising building in a city it will kill the AI completely because the crime will happen to early now and make to mutch -gold.

 

[glaucus.b]

Hi guys. Thanks again for such a good mood. Here is the bug I have:

After updating to version 8773 (probably effect of version 8771) I have started to have earning of more than 2500 per turn with 100% science spending. Before the update it was around -175. I have added the screenshots and saved games before and after update.

capital before: View attachment 399519
capital after: View attachment 399513
financial advisor before: View attachment 399514
financial advisor after: View attachment 399515
saved game before: View attachment 399516
saved game after: View attachment 399517

 

[Pit2015]

Hi guys. Thanks again for such a good mood. Here is the bug I have:

After updating to version 8773 (probably effect of version 8771) I have started to have earning of more than 2500 per turn with 100% science spending. Before the update it was around -175. I have added the screenshots and saved games before and after update.

capital before: View attachment 399519
capital after: View attachment 399513
financial advisor before: View attachment 399514
financial advisor after: View attachment 399515
saved game before: View attachment 399516
saved game after: View attachment 399517

Thats because the gold calculation bug was fixed, now you get all bonus from the buildings that they should give correctly in your gold income. Look +% from bonus in your screenshots.

 

[JosEPh_II]

You are hugely exaggerating the problems Montezuma is having here. -85 gold per turn at 95% research, with 17000 in the bank. Even if he doesn't reduce research, his reserve will last him 200 turns, which is kind of a lot (what speed are you playing on?).



You seem to be implying you build every building in every city. If the city can't afford the crime, it can (generally) do without the building.

100% agree with this assessment. Pit uses Eternity for his scenario, the speed that distorts all modifiers.

@Toffer,
Once v36 is released, then I can continue with stage 2 which involves rearranging when and where Crimes appear in the Tech tree and what Era they appear. I know full well that Preh Era has too many crimes initiated for that Era. It had 15 Crimes of the 76 started in that Era. Currently it has 12 and several that remain have been pushed back further into late Preh. So No I don't plan to change burglary to suit Pit and his scenario. He needs to rethink and adjust his playstyle.

When Pit gets out of the Preh Era into Ancient and beyond he will find that crime becomes much easier to handle in it's current state. And by Ren Era it's actually Way Too easy to handle. Even with the lowered minCrime levels you can easily run in the -400 to -1000 Crime range! That is absurdly easy even for this old Diehard Hater of Crime.

I could've had much more put in before the Freeze period but was asked not too. I complied.

Players overall will not be able to ignore Crime any more like many Deity Players say they do. And the AI in all my test games (even the Slow one that is in Ren Era) has strong AI. This whole Pit matter is a much ado about Nothing.

One final thing, I changed one value in the Crime Diffusion Property that actually Helps Pit and all that struggle with Crime. I could put it back to what it was before and increase the diffusion of crime from Main city Tile to Adjacent tiles that then diffuses Back to the Main City tile. That would precipitate a 25% Increase in Crime levels generated by Pop and/or Crime producing enemy Units that get close to your cities.

But this is enough about Crime workings in the Bug and Crash Thread. ALL further Discussion should be in the Crime and Disease Thread in the Main C2C forum. This Includes you too Pit. No more carrying on about Crime in This Thread.

JosEPh

 

[Pit2015]

100% agree with this assessment. Pit uses Eternity for his scenario, the speed that distorts all modifiers.

@Toffer,
Once v36 is released, then I can continue with stage 2 which involves rearranging when and where Crimes appear in the Tech tree and what Era they appear. I know full well that Preh Era has too many crimes initiated for that Era. It had 15 Crimes of the 76 started in that Era. Currently it has 12 and several that remain have been pushed back further into late Preh. So No I don't plan to change burglary to suit Pit and his scenario. He needs to rethink and adjust his playstyle.

When Pit gets out of the Preh Era into Ancient and beyond he will find that crime becomes much easier to handle in it's current state. And by Ren Era it's actually Way Too easy to handle. Even with the lowered minCrime levels you can easily run in the -400 to -1000 Crime range! That is absurdly easy even for this old Diehard Hater of Crime.

I could've had much more put in before the Freeze period but was asked not too. I complied.

Players overall will not be able to ignore Crime any more like many Deity Players say they do. And the AI in all my test games (even the Slow one that is in Ren Era) has strong AI. This whole Pit matter is a much ado about Nothing.

One final thing, I changed one value in the Crime Diffusion Property that actually Helps Pit and all that struggle with Crime. I could put it back to what it was before and increase the diffusion of crime from Main city Tile to Adjacent tiles that then diffuses Back to the Main City tile. That would precipitate a 25% Increase in Crime levels generated by Pop and/or Crime producing enemy Units that get close to your cities.

But this is enough about Crime workings in the Bug and Crash Thread. ALL further Discussion should be in the Crime and Disease Thread in the Main C2C forum. This Includes you too Pit. No more carrying on about Crime in This Thread.

JosEPh

I can change my playstyle and survive this, but the AI cant. To bad if this mod will not work in eternity speed anymore, the loading screen told me that C2C is designed for eternity game speed. BTW we talk about the crime looting that gives you -75 gold and exist from just +260 crime. So let me know where are the crime modifiers are modded, i have to change this then via modmod, otherwise all AI players go bankrupt making them delete all there units that they builded. Provide a save where the AI player dont get bankrupt please, i want to see that, pre/ancient era. Will be the same on slower game speeds i am sure, the AI never will be able to create enouth gold so fast to cover this crime rating and they will reach next era very slow, slower than the player. Start a new game and test by your self, look the AI civs up in WB and you will see there gold will decrease fast or they have 0 gold. Ok i told you the problem, do what you want no more info from me on crime. Is like gameing for months and dont see that you miss 50% gold income from building bonuses. So where are these crime values, from where they exist, are modded?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think you would find that the AI will adapt. Obviously the first few rounds they will show huge losses but they'll adjust their sliders and build more gold producing buildings if they can. Sometimes the shift in assets can be detrimental during a game but if they were to have been faced with it with the graduality that the game would introduce it to them then they would've made different choices. They are motivated to keep themselves out of crime and as long as they have the ability to build units to address it they will but this IS a problem for the earlier stages of the game where currently they can't. So in this case they'll just end up adapting to the gold loss as if it was something unavoidable, which in many ways it is. Play it out and see how the AI fare.

 

[Pit2015]

Ok i play 200-500 more turns and check the AI civs then we see... in emergency i can give the AI later more gold in WB if needed, and if the AI cant adapt or the crime stuff is changed again then i can give them a new amount of gold if they went bankrupt and still bankrupt in 200-500 turns. But i dont think they can generate 75 gold in a city in 500 turns, even if they build all gold buildings they can. Maybe when they reach masonry and can build the first police unit, but that will take them about 500 - 1000 turns i think. So the AI will fall behind a lot and become mutch more easy to defeat.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Direct gold impact wasn't the whole problem. They also had a lot of new unhappiness (4 unhappy pop in your screen shot). Certainly they have buildings they can generate to address that as well. Between buildings for gold and happiness and potentially adjusting their sliders when they start feeling crunched by their treasury getting low, they may well be able to adapt and may have done a better job of it had it been introduced gradually as a normal game would play out.

It's still possible that it's going to be an issue until more capability to directly address crime is introduced earlier.

@Joe: Current SVN running the debug dll:

Assert Failed

File: CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 5294
SVN-Rev: 8758
Expression: stricmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0
Message: info type 'BUILDING_CRIME_CARTHEIFT' not found, Current XML file is: xml\GameInfo\CIV4PropertyInfos.xml

This means you have some xml indicating BUILDING_CRIME_CARTHEIFT somewhere (xml\GameInfo\CIV4PropertyInfos.xml) and that it doesn't exist. Sometimes this could be a simple misspelling but in this case I've found you commented out this Crime in the buildings xml so since it doesn't exist, this lingering call to a type that doesn't exist is problematic. I've fixed this and will commit immediately.

This also brings up a point I wasn't sure if you were aware of or not. Whenever you adjust xml, be sure to run the mod with the debug dll before committing. You won't get error messages about these sorts of things running the standard dll.

The way to run the debug dll is quite simple.

1. Rename the CvGameCoreDLL.dll file in the Assets folder to something else. I make it "CvGameCoreDLL.dll.core" when I do this.
2. Rename the CvGameCoreDLL.dll.debug file in the Assets folder to CvGameCoreDLL.dll
3. Run the game.
4. Don't forget to revert those changes before committing!

 

[Pit2015]

If the city make 4 gold so if AI changes the slider to 100% gold, then they will get maybe 6 or 8 gold in this city, how will they adapt then to -75 gold? I still think that will not work. Also all gold buildings in prehistoric era will not generate 75 gold in the capital city. Will just not work, yes 4 unhappy pop will make them producing not mutch and so not building any gold building fast. We need an early police unit then to keep crime under control.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If the city make 4 gold so if AI changes the slider to 100% gold, then they will get maybe 6 or 8 gold in this city, how will they adapt then to -75 gold? I still think that will not work. Also all gold buildings in prehistoric era will not generate 75 gold in the capital city. Will just not work, yes 4 unhappy pop will make them producing not mutch and so not building any gold building fast. We need an early police unit then to keep crime under control.

You may well be right. Which would be unfortunate for just before release to have the AI crippled without the capacity to do anything about it. Some leaders have some tremendously crime generating traits and those would be the ones I fear for.

Then again, a few quick questions here...

Are you showing us one of your cities in that screenshot? (Is this an AI player that's suffering this?)

Are you playing at a level above Noble? (Crime is much higher above Noble and AI always play at Noble level where crime is almost difficult to force out of control.)

My point is that if this is your city and you're playing at a level above Noble then you're not getting an accurate assessment of what the AI would be suffering from. Additionally, the AI is usually pretty good at keeping its crime levels low, even if it only has buildings with which to work with to do it. I've rarely ever seen Crime get very high for the AI unless I"m really trying to MAKE it do so with criminal units.

 

[Thunderbrd]

i m playing crime revisited game and it always freezes up on discovering fission any reason?

Unfortunately I can't do anything to help here. The game crashes on loading and the crash takes place in the exe (I can do nothing about these). This could be an indication of a graphic problem perhaps - usually exe crashes are.

If it's not crashing for you on LOADING then its an asset difference that takes place between the core and the modmod you're running. And since Joe's taken down the modmod link I cannot download it to confirm if that has anything to do with it.

So I'm stuck trying to assist here.

Still looking for Pepper's save if I'm to do anything with it.

 

[Pit2015]

You may well be right. Which would be unfortunate for just before release to have the AI crippled without the capacity to do anything about it. Some leaders have some tremendously crime generating traits and those would be the ones I fear for.

Then again, a few quick questions here...

Are you showing us one of your cities in that screenshot? (Is this an AI player that's suffering this?)

Are you playing at a level above Noble? (Crime is much higher above Noble and AI always play at Noble level where crime is almost difficult to force out of control.)

My point is that if this is your city and you're playing at a level above Noble then you're not getting an accurate assessment of what the AI would be suffering from. Additionally, the AI is usually pretty good at keeping its crime levels low, even if it only has buildings with which to work with to do it. I've rarely ever seen Crime get very high for the AI unless I"m really trying to MAKE it do so with criminal units.

Yes is AI city from montezuma on spy view, not my city, i playing the USA. I am gameing on deity and eternity speed. Yes i have a thief running arround this city but my own city of mowhawk is at +213 crime (All anti crime buildings build) giving -15 + -8 + -2 gold. Also this will be to mutch for the AI if the AI city only generates 6-8 gold. Some more crime buildings and i am fast at +260 = -75 gold. Look screenie of my city mowhawk...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=399486&d=1445014931

So there is nothing left for me to reduce/control crime until masonry.

But the thief is not on his territory mutch so i think its because teh AI dont has anti crime buildings to build yet or not builded them, on my new founded citys with population 1 i got also +100 or +150 crime, making many -gold.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@T-brd,
Fixed your fix for Car Theft. It was not supposed to be deleted/commented out. Had removed it by accident in SpecialBuildings file. Replaced.

@Pit,
This is Not the Proper Thread for Crime Discussion. Please move all discussion over Crime to the Crime and Disease Thread main forum.

JosEPh

 

[Pit2015]

Ok look here and then letz finish crime discussion here, but still looks buged now. Ok i checked 3 AI civs, i went to WB and placed spys then i infiltrated these citys, look china civ, +350 crime... frenchi civ + 232 crime and they mostly getting soon more techs that give them more crimes they all loosing already gold and china and french will get soon -75 from looting at +260 crime when they get the warfare tech. So as soon as they get warfare tech most of them will have -80 gold in prehistoric era. Before this happens they get burglary, giving them -15 gold also, so all AI civs will go bankrupt for sure. And yes, they will get alot of unhappy population, resulting in very strong unproductivity.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@ Pit,
This is my Final response to you about this in this Thread.

The changes to Crime, especially the PrereqTech changes that moves a Crime from one Tech to a different tech Must require a New Game be started. The Tech Tree is set when you Launch a New Game.

So your current game only has part of the changes. Do you understand? Update to latest SVN and start a New game to get ALL the Crime changes. Preh Era now has Only 8 crimes vs the 15 it had before. But perhaps you didn't Know that the Tech tree is Set at Game launch. And that any PrereqTech Change that affects any Tech in it will not show in that current game, but will show up on New games.

And last but not least you do not dictate to me Where we discuss a perceived problem, understand that. This is Not the thread about Crime and it's changes it's the Bug and Crash thread. I have pointed you to the Correct thread repeatedly. I will gladly discuss crimes changes with you there.

JosEPh

 

[Noriad2]

Yes is AI city from montezuma on spy view, not my city, i playing the USA. I am gameing on deity and eternity speed. Yes i have a thief running arround this city but my own city of mowhawk is at +213 crime (All anti crime buildings build) giving -15 + -8 + -2 gold. Also this will be to mutch for the AI if the AI city only generates 6-8 gold. Some more crime buildings and i am fast at +260 = -75 gold. Look screenie of my city mowhawk...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=399486&d=1445014931

So there is nothing left for me to reduce/control crime until masonry.

But the thief is not on his territory mutch so i think its because teh AI dont has anti crime buildings to build yet or not builded them, on my new founded citys with population 1 i got also +100 or +150 crime, making many -gold.

City in the screenshot has 73 tourism. My build is a few days old, and I'm loading a very old save game, but as far as I can see you get one tourism level at +10 tourism, one level at +25 tourism, and one level at +50 tourism. Which corresponds with +30 gold and +30 crime/turn.

+30 crime/turn will trend towards a crime level of +750 not counting other sources of crime.
I think that in this case it is not crime that is imbalanced but Tourism (at least in the prehistoric era).

At Pit2015: pls check out the tourism at the bottom of the "special" buildings tab, just to be sure.

Apologies for posting in the "wrong" thread.

EDIT: I didn't see JosEPh II's last post about the tech tree before posting. Nevertheless the effect of Tourism on crime should
be looked at in this case.

 

[Pit2015]

City in the screenshot has 73 tourism. My build is a few days old, and I'm loading a very old save game, but as far as I can see you get one tourism level at +10 tourism, one level at +25 tourism, and one level at +50 tourism. Which corresponds with +30 gold and +30 crime/turn.

+30 crime/turn will trend towards a crime level of +750 not counting other sources of crime.
I think that in this case it is not crime that is imbalanced but Tourism (at least in the prehistoric era).

At Pit2015: pls check out the tourism at the bottom of the "special" buildings tab, just to be sure.

Apologies for posting in the "wrong" thread

Yeah but i have in this city all anti crime buildings... AI dont has that, look the screenshots of the AI civs i checked, china civ has already +350 crime will give them -75 and -15 gold soon.

JosEPh this is the first time you tell me that a new game start is needed. Changes worked fine after update, so in a new game there will be no looting crime at +260 crime?

IS THAT TRUE?
The changes to Crime, especially the PrereqTech changes that moves a Crime from one Tech to a different tech Must require a New Game be started. The Tech Tree is set when you Launch a New Game.

New game start needed and it is fixed?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Looting will show up at 250 crime level.

Preh Era now only has 8 crimes revealed:
Kidnapping (325), Murder(500), Rape(370), Mugging(150), Burglary(125), Fighting(100), Gangs(300), Looting(250).

Timeline Tampering is the Highest level for a crime to show and it's minCrime level is 1000. Most Crimes will be revealed thru the Eras below 500 minCrime level.

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

TB,

can you pls check this game out, it is taking 10X the normal turn times, and i just checked and there is only 1 city per civ, and only like 8 civ or so, in PreH Era?? waaaaaaaay to long for turn times, i expect it to be less than 10 seconds, not 30-40 secs??

 

[JosEPh_II]

City in the screenshot has 73 tourism. My build is a few days old, and I'm loading a very old save game, but as far as I can see you get one tourism level at +10 tourism, one level at +25 tourism, and one level at +50 tourism. Which corresponds with +30 gold and +30 crime/turn.

+30 crime/turn will trend towards a crime level of +750 not counting other sources of crime.
I think that in this case it is not crime that is imbalanced but Tourism (at least in the prehistoric era).

At Pit2015: pls check out the tourism at the bottom of the "special" buildings tab, just to be sure.

Apologies for posting in the "wrong" thread.

EDIT: I didn't see JosEPh II's last post about the tech tree before posting. Nevertheless the effect of Tourism on crime should
be looked at in this case.

You are right Noriad2, Tourism is a by product of a modder who moved on and never checked to see it's total effects upon Crime. This was/is another of my "concerns/gripes" about crime property being interwoven into everything else.

JosEPh