Single Player bugs and crashes v38 plus (SVN) - After the 20th of February 2018

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Please report all single player bugs and crashes for the SVN version of C2C here. (release v38 = SVN Revision ???)

If you are using the download version of Caveman2Cosmos v38 please use the other thread.

To assist us in fixing the problem please include the version of C2C you are playing.

If the bug involved a repeatable "Crash to Desktop" (CTD) or similar please include

• a save and description of how to reproduce the crash
• if your mods folder is not Caveman2Cosmos please state what it is when posting a save to help the modders and save them time when trying to identify the problem.
• the MiniDump.dmp file. It is found in your Beyond the Sword folder that contains the Mods file containing Caveman2Cosmos. IE the folder that contains the BeyondTheSword.exe file.

If the bug includes error messages then the Python.Err file in the logs folder would be useful also. It can be found in the same location as the the Saves folder containing your save games.

A screen shot.

Basically as much information as you can that will help us find the problem[/INDENT]

If you saw the AI doing something stupid/unoptimal/otherwise bad make sure your BBAI logging is set to 3 in the BUG options. Then, post a savegame exhibiting the behavior as well as the BBAI log, found in the Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword/Logs folder.

How to turn on logging.

In the Civ 4 INI file, located in Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword, there are some logging options. Make sure they look like this.

; Enable the logging system
LoggingEnabled = 1

; Enable synchronization logging
SynchLog = 1

; Overwrite old network and message logs
OverwriteLogs = 1

; Enable rand event logging
RandLog = 0

; Enable message logging
MessageLog = 1

Note: You only need to have RandLogs on if you are playing Multiplayer, otherwise just leave that off (thx Cyrusfan)


How to turn on the AI logging.

The AI logging is turned on in the BUG options screens. It is the BBAI log mentioned on the Logs page. It writes to the same folder as the other logs creating a BBAI.log file there.

Known issues

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[Usul13]

SVN 9930
Formatting bug in the Sevopedia:

Spoiler :

Different problem: If the Forced March or the Enhanced March status is set on a unit the healing time goes up significantly. On my Stone Thrower unit it went up from 1 turn to 9.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Different problem: If the Forced March or the Enhanced March status is set on a unit the healing time goes up significantly. On my Stone Thrower unit it went up from 1 turn to 9.

That sounds appropriate though I'm not sure if it's intentional or not. Been a while since we designed that.

With the first bug... @alberts2 Not trying to throw blame around but is it possible that something you did with the text recently might have caused this?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

While I mostly like the new buttons for the religions

1. The action button for the missionary to spread the religion does not look right
   
   
2. The building buttons are difficult to distinguish ie the small religion button in the top corner is too small
   
   
3. The new building buttons are fuzzy and not clear like before. Also the religion "theme" of the buttons belonging to the same religion has been lost.

 

[Septimius]

Something has gotten seriously bugged in one of the recent updates, my bet is Toffer's 9928.

Tech costs have gone out of whack, so now the end of a tech chain costs more than the beginning of the next (more advanced) tech age.

Example - Linguistics cost 77798 tech, the next tech after that is Classical Lifestyle at 37322 tech.

Also everything seems to be massively more expensive. The first in the chain Nomadic Lifestyle costs 1909 tech, which I believe means that your first tech will now be finished in 150-190 turns (at around 10-15 tech income to begin with IIRC).

Basically the tech tree is broken.

All this at eternity speed, nightmare difficulty and on the gigantic map size.

 

[Usul13]

That sounds appropriate though I'm not sure if it's intentional or not. Been a while since we designed that.

To be honest, if it's intentional it's not a very good feature. If it's not it's not a big issue. You can work around it by unsetting the status and healing the unit in the next turn then setting the status again. It's just a little bit annoying.

I found another bug. I have a Wanderer. It gets damaged by the terrain, the lines above the unit and under it's picture are change their color but the status area says that it has full strength, 0.66/0.66. I don't know if you can do anything about it because I can't repeat the problem. After reloading the game it shows the correct strength value.

Spoiler :

Also I wanted to ask that the textures of the taiga and tundra tiles shouldn't be switched with each other? I'ts a bit strange that after the green areas we have very icy/snowy areas then dark areas with almost no ice/snow then very icy areas again.

 

[Usul13]

Something has gotten seriously bugged in one of the recent updates, my bet is Toffer's 9928.

Tech costs have gone out of whack, so now the end of a tech chain costs more than the beginning of the next (more advanced) tech age.

Example - Linguistics cost 77798 tech, the next tech after that is Classical Lifestyle at 37322 tech.

Also everything seems to be massively more expensive. The first in the chain Nomadic Lifestyle costs 1909 tech, which I believe means that your first tech will now be finished in 150-190 turns (at around 10-15 tech income to begin with IIRC).

Basically the tech tree is broken.

All this at eternity speed, nightmare difficulty and on the gigantic map size.

On a huge map at snail speed I have correct values.
Edit: On Emperor difficulty.

Also the pace of the research seems to be very good at the start of the game.

Edit2: If I remember correctly, there should be a game settings tab on the Victory Conditions screen. I can't find it anywhere.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Something has gotten seriously bugged in one of the recent updates, my bet is Toffer's 9928.

Tech costs have gone out of whack, so now the end of a tech chain costs more than the beginning of the next (more advanced) tech age.

Example - Linguistics cost 77798 tech, the next tech after that is Classical Lifestyle at 37322 tech.

Also everything seems to be massively more expensive. The first in the chain Nomadic Lifestyle costs 1909 tech, which I believe means that your first tech will now be finished in 150-190 turns (at around 10-15 tech income to begin with IIRC).

Basically the tech tree is broken.

All this at eternity speed, nightmare difficulty and on the gigantic map size.

I borked beeline stings and need to fix it. Might be other causes. Share settings pls.

 

[Toffer90]

Something has gotten seriously bugged in one of the recent updates, my bet is Toffer's 9928.

No it's caused by the change TB did to the era tech cost modifier. the cost of the tech is not adjusted by era until you reach that era. He changed a tag that used to change tech cost based on the era the tech is in to be a tag that change the tech cost of all techs based on what era the player is in.

@TB: I liked it better when it worked the other way around. Now the era iResearchPercent tag works as a second beeline stings tag.

Will you change the iResearchPercent tag to work as the iTechCostModifier did?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Will you change the iResearchPercent tag to work as the iTechCostModifier did?

It already does. It affects all techs, not just ones left behind in the previous era. That's what iTechCostModifier always did as well. The iResearchPercent just modified based n the starting era. Fairly useless there.

 

[Toffer90]

It already does. It affects all techs, not just ones left behind in the previous era. That's what iTechCostModifier always did as well.

No, the iTechCostModifier only affected the cost of techs depending on what era the tech belonged in.
So when the player was in the prehistoric era the tech cost of e.g. a transhuman tech would show the same cost then as it would when the player reached the transhuman era; and the same tech cost as when the player reach the future era.
Now the cost of that transhuman tech change every time the player reach a new era.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I borked beeline stings and need to fix it. Might be other causes. Share settings pls.

Actually this is calculating correctly. I thought I'd done something wrong there as I was thinking about it but nope... it's right.

 

[Thunderbrd]

No, the iTechCostModifier only affected the cost of techs depending on what era the tech belonged in.
So when the player was in the prehistoric era the tech cost of e.g. a transhuman tech would show the same cost then as it would when the player reached the transhuman era; and the same tech cost as when the player reach the future era.
Now the cost of that transhuman tech change every time the player reach a new era.

Which matches how the building and unit build costs adjust as well. I suppose we can change it so that it doesn't adjust all techs and just allow the stings factor to achieve the goal we're going for there.

 

[Toffer90]

Which matches how the building and unit build costs adjust as well. I suppose we can change it so that it doesn't adjust all techs and just allow the stings factor to achieve the goal we're going for there.

It was really nice to have that tool to change the cost of all techs in one era without it affecting other eras. e.g. if prehistoric techs had too low cost while ancient era had too high cost, and classical era had a bit too low cost then one could set the prehistoric tag to 140%, the ancient era tag to 80% and perhaps the classical era tag to 120%. without a systematic progression as it has to follow the way the tag works now.
The building and unit cost tags in era should also work as the iTechCostModifier tag used to work for tech imo.
I see those cost modifier tags in eraInfo more as a modders tool for easy whole sale adjustments and not really as a tag meant to achieve any specific in game features (exception: beeline stings is meant to provide a game mechanic feature that adds flavour to the game).

 

[Septimius]

Ok, so it sounds like it's mostly working as intended. I guess a new game will give me a better feel for how it works, instead of looking back at tech costs through my advanced game. It just seemed odd is all, not least because the tech cost first went down, then took a sharp turn up after that, but you can really feel any tech price changes on the highest difficulty and on the biggest maps.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It was really nice to have that tool to change the cost of all techs in one era without it affecting other eras. e.g. if prehistoric techs had too low cost while ancient era had too high cost, and classical era had a bit too low cost then one could set the prehistoric tag to 140%, the ancient era tag to 80% and perhaps the classical era tag to 120%. without a systematic progression as it has to follow the way the tag works now.
The building and unit cost tags in era should also work as the iTechCostModifier tag used to work for tech imo.
I see those cost modifier tags in eraInfo more as a modders tool for easy whole sale adjustments and not really as a tag meant to achieve any specific in game features (exception: beeline stings is meant to provide a game mechanic feature that adds flavour to the game).

At some point down the road I can probably try to write the building and unit cost increases into the beeline stings but I'm not messing with the production cost stuff yet. The tech stuff makes sense though so I'll have it changed on the next update.

 

[Toffer90]

At some point down the road I can probably try to write the building and unit cost increases into the beeline stings but I'm not messing with the production cost stuff yet. The tech stuff makes sense though so I'll have it changed on the next update.

I'm not sure that a beeline stings effect for building and unit cost is called for anyway, it's not all that difficult for a developed society to build a primitive construction in the same way as it is for a developed society to invent primitive concepts and techniques.

I'll construct some hypotheticals that are not entirely related to how the game is in every way.
A society (A) that has modern medicine might find it hard to invent natural medicines (that may have existed in other prehistoric societies (B,C,etc) that were not directly part of society's (A) heritage. Think natural medicine from china that were never invented in Europe), while a nation that has invented carpentry and is capable of building steel construction might not find it that much harder, than their ancestors did, to still set up carpenter workshops. Sure, a Renaissance society would demand more from a carpenters workshop than what an Classical society would demand from it, but I'm sure newer construction methods and tools would make up for it.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm not sure that a beeline stings effect for building and unit cost is called for anyway, it's not all that difficult for a developed society to build a primitive construction in the same way as it is for a developed society to invent primitive concepts and techniques.

I'll construct some hypotheticals that are not entirely related to how the game is in every way.
A society (A) that has modern medicine might find it hard to invent natural medicines (that may have existed in other prehistoric societies (B,C,etc) that were not directly part of society's (A) heritage. Think natural medicine from china that were never invented in Europe), while a nation that has invented carpentry and is capable of building steel construction might not find it that much harder, than their ancestors did, to still set up carpenter workshops. Sure, a Renaissance society would demand more from a carpenters workshop than what an Classical society would demand from it, but I'm sure newer construction methods and tools would make up for it.

All great realism based arguments. The game effect is to penalize those who rush to the free tech or to the benefits of techs in the next era so as to promote getting more out of the current age before moving on. However, it might be good to include that effect into beeline stings as an option instead so I'll switch that over to only operate with that functionality under beeline stings.

 

[Toffer90]

The game effect is to penalize those who rush to the free tech or to the benefits of techs in the next era so as to promote getting more out of the current age before moving on. However, it might be good to include that effect into beeline stings as an option instead so I'll switch that over to only operate with that functionality under beeline stings.

That game effect is achieved pretty well by making techs from earlier eras more expensive, is it necessary to do it for building and unit cost too? I feel you are stuck in the mindset that nothing can affect tech cost without affecting unit and building cost equally. It is a good mindset for difficulty, gamespeed, and map size options, because they are options. while it is not necessarily a requirement for eras, as that is something that is mandatory to play through for all players anyway, no player would ever experience this differently as no player can pick and choose what era they want to be in, other than to delay the inevitable increment. The process of balancing the mod is not complicated by an unequal era effect on hammer and beaker costs because all players would experience this difference the same way.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That game effect is achieved pretty well by making techs from earlier eras more expensive, is it necessary to do it for building and unit cost too? I feel you are stuck in the mindset that nothing can affect tech cost without affecting unit and building cost equally. It is a good mindset for difficulty, gamespeed, and map size options, because they are options. while it is not necessarily a requirement for eras, as that is something that is mandatory to play through for all players anyway, no player would ever experience this differently as no player can pick and choose what era they want to be in, other than to delay the inevitable increment. The process of balancing the mod is not complicated by an unequal era effect on hammer and beaker costs because all players would experience this difference the same way.

To answer your question, it isn't absolutely necessary but I'd like to include the penalty as it was something I wanted to have happen even before we started discussing the beeline stings. That said, it's a more minor effect on the option than the tech cost hit. I'm not trying to lock the two ratios so much as trying to enhance the nature of the option in its goal of penalizing those who race ahead and leave behind much of the previous era.