Can I see your save to check how long turns would be on my computer?
Single Player bugs and crashes v38 plus (SVN) - After the 20th of February 2018
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
Wow you or other tech leader should be in Classical era.
I guess space maps should be played with upscaled research cost, so you and AIs are slowed down.
Turn took 30 seconds here
Next turn took 50 seconds.
Nice city names.
Earth size is 124x57 - Standard is 120X80, Small is 108x72. Those sizes were always a thing for C2C world.
Respective areas are 7068, 9600 and 7776.
That is Earth in those space maps is Small- and their default civ amount is 6.
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Thanks for showing your true feelings. Greatly appreciated.
You can always play on Small sized map - it was equivalent of Large size on other mapscripts before making C2C_World sizes default. (6 default civs)
Earth in space maps is bit smaller - this means they are fast to play.
Those new sizes always were default for C2C_World mapscript.
I listed original sizes and C2C_World sizes which are used as new default.
Duel (2); 40x24 -> 60x40 - Now sized as Small-
Tiny (4); 52x32 -> 84x56 - Now sized as Standard+
Small (6); 64x40 -> 108x72 - Now sized as Large+
Standard (8); 84x52 -> 120x80 - Now sized as Huge-
Large (10); 104x64 -> 132x88 -Now sized as Huge+
Huge (12); 128x80 -> 144x96 - Midway between old Huge/Giant
Giant (14); 160x100 -> 156x104 - Virtually unchanged
Gigantic (16); 200x120 -> 168x112 - Now sized as Giant+
If sizes had original (old default not counting C2C_World) player count, then:
Duel/Tiny/Small would be for two players.
Standard - 4 players.
Large - 6 players.
Huge - 8 players
Giant - 14 players
Gigantic - 15 players.
Now area increases exactly as default amount of players (minor variations as 1.5:1 aspect ratio is kept).
Old Small/Standard/Large/Huge is pretty much new Duel/Tiny/Small/Standard now.
This was a thing for C2C_World it just was extended to all mapscripts as new default.
That is Standard world size is what Huge used to be in mapscripts other than C2C_World.
Large and Huge C2C_World (and now other mapscripts) are larger than original Huge size.
Giant isn't changed much.
Gigantic is now smaller though.
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I already play with upscaled research cost!
Why I am so far ahead probably comes from my far superior hunting technique compared to the AI. I was behind in early prehistoric and was too late in founding Druidism, but towards late prehistoric I was leading in technology because AI started hunting too late and I got tons of subdued animals. I was quick to expand (Industrious and Expansive traits did help, too) and then I could build criminals that did a lot of harm to the competitiors, mostly ruining their territory. Having the tech lead makes you more or less unstoppable (tech diffusion and tech trading is off), I could have conquered everything easily long before. This is with Emperor difficulty.
I also have all Cultures now and used most of my Heroes to join my main military city as Great Military Instructor, new units start with 340 experience!
You can play on Immortal next time.
I guess your map is too wet
That is not enough space to expand.
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Joseph plays on much bigger map (comparing sizes of Earth) with more AIs.@Snofru1 @raxo2222 played Snofru map as well, 20 second turn timers... How is that possible when we have other maps that go +5 min like @JosEPh_II case?
Space maps (Kation's Solar System and Snofru's maps) have Small- Earth with 7000 tiles, while Large or Huge map, which hes playing has 11616/13824 tiles.
Also Snofru was exterminating AIs as soon as possible.
Now there are two barely alive AIs, that are way behind him.
Larger maps - longer wait time, which is bad for longer speeds.
Blitz:Eternity is 20x difference in duration
Duel:Gigantic is 8x difference in area.
I'm not sure if this would be good suggested max game length.
Eternity on Duel map
Eons on Tiny map
Snail on Small map
Marathon on Standard map
Epic on Large map
Long on Huge map
Normal on Giant map
Blitz on Gigantic map
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Understand that a 5 min turn time for you means 5 months of work for me being vastly distracted from working on what I feel is actually important, which is the game balance and cohesion that will make this a good game in the end.
Yes, some AI work is a big part of that and that will probably have a major impact on improving AI turn times because I know some spots where they are spamming units and shouldn't have to be and fixing that will help a lot, but I can't clone myself here just so you can get the focus to be on what annoys you the most. Direct work on optimizing isn't even necessarily the best way to fix delayed turn times in the first place.
And I do not tolerate complaints that the 'mod is too big' because that's what we've made C2C to be on purpose. I don't want it to be laborious to play, no, and there are some ways to improve on that too but it doesn't involve efforts to go through and tear out whatever we can just get rid of. Demolition efforts are not the way to proceed here. Streamlining and smoothing, sure, if it helps the overall balance and is based on good reasons for the game design itself, but just complaints about volume are going to fall on deaf ears.
Another major complaint has been that we need to provide a way for the player to identify buildings that the player is not likely to want to build and put them into a separate list. I've figured out how we can go about that but may need some python help there. Again, another side distraction to make because its a frustration to tackle but since I had a conceptual breakthrough on how to do it, it's going to soon get some focus.
My point is that we should not be backpedalling. Forward can and will lead to better places here.
Not sure why AI is lazy to use tribes. They eventually use them.
Maybe time between Tribe and Settler is too short?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
It's still trying to catch up on buildings when the Tribe becomes available. Just an unproven theory but a very educated guess.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Why did you feel this was necessary?
We already had players getting into trouble on the old Huge, Giant, and Gigantic. To the point that we stopped recommending they even play the Old Gigantic. We kept it in for those that Must have it and tons of AI like Pit's scenario. But it was causing many problems that was clogging up the Bug and Crash thread.
I stated my case If you wish to classify it as "complaints" that is your decision and reaction. Can't stop you on that. You are free to state your stance any time. And of course you do.How about showing the same considerations to others before you berate? Just sayin'. You do get heavy handed alot.
If I had realized (if it had stuck with me) how much Raxxo had changed the map sizes I would have dropped to even smaller than the current Standard map the current game is on. So I see I need to drop down to Small or Tiny to get my testing done that needs to be done after Classical Era.
And sorry I can't go buy a new Computer either.
Once again I say, that those changes to sizes didn't affect players, that play only on C2C_World mapscript.
That is on this mapscript Gigantic always was smaller, and Duel/Tiny/Small/Standard map generated with C2C_World always had size of Small/Standard/Large/Huge map approximately.
I just standardized sizes in relation to that mapscript.
This change only affected players, that play on other mapscripts - that is not C2C_World players.
That is unknowingly you were always playing on mapscript, that made biggest maps of all mapscripts on given world size except Gigantic.
Gigantic size now is bit smaller now.
@Toffer90 when you changed size of generated maps last time?
Apparently Joseph was unaware, that your mapscript made maps larger than old default values of WorldInfo xml and other mapscripts except 2 biggest sizes.
I even said, that I standardized map sizes to your mapscript - now hes annoyed about my change, that didn't affect him, as he already is playing only on your mapscript
He should blame my other change, that boosted AI economy, as now its forced to look at some buildings, that are replacements, part of building/resource (smelters, smiths, industrial+ resource producers) chain or give free buildings (national wonders).
Other than that Hunting Instructions and Community Discussions
In one game he was about to be blitzed by tanks and airplanes as he was in Medieval era, but turn times were too long here.
Also weren't always his mature games taking 2 - 5 minutes to process turn, when he was spending 20 - 30 minutes doing them?
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Where did I berate anyone? I was just saying how I feel about it. You've made a lot of comments lately to try and get us all to suddenly shift focus to turn times like that's suddenly a new problem and there needs to be a red alert and drop everything to go fix that and I haven't said anything in reply because working directly on turn times is not something I consider my 'specialty' and is definitely not my 'interest'. And yet I'm really the only one who can do anything about it (with the exception of Toffer who only offers his assistance on that primarily through his modmod, and DH who doesn't divert his focus towards what can be done in Python to speed things up much either.) I can muddle about with it but I'm in the middle of a project at the moment and I'm not 'dropping everything' to go racing off to try and patch up a problem that I already have a number of ways to help with on my endless list of things to accomplish. Since I feel like you've been bringing this up repeatedly because you haven't been getting any response on it, which from me you haven't because I'm not prepared to work on it right now and didn't want to outright say that but apparently it needs to be stated, I felt you needed to know why and where I am on the matter. It's not a lack of empathy for your plight but it I'm not a machine you can just drive with your demands. I have other priorities myself and speeding things up falls within that realm but isn't yet current highest priority. I'm sorry for that. Finishing what I started with the project I'm on is my only priority at the moment and I'm probably going to take a bit of a breather after that marathon and more importantly, I promise that you'll probably be thoroughly unimpressed with that as much as everything else I do around here.
I don't mean "I don't tolerate" to be a statement of control so much as I'm just saying 'I'm not swayed by arguments for'.
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I know something has been changed with the ordinances recently...
Well, some of them don´t work here. See the attached save. The only active units are judges that should be able to build ordinances but they don't appear (except prostitution ban). They also aren´t buildable in another way. Example: City "C" has built the Departement of Motor Vehicles. It has a Courthouse (through a Wonder) and Motorized Transportation is researched so all requirements should be fullfilled.
Or maybe I am just blind and overlooking something...
Well, some of them don´t work here. See the attached save. The only active units are judges that should be able to build ordinances but they don't appear (except prostitution ban). They also aren´t buildable in another way. Example: City "C" has built the Departement of Motor Vehicles. It has a Courthouse (through a Wonder) and Motorized Transportation is researched so all requirements should be fullfilled.
Or maybe I am just blind and overlooking something...
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Hope you are having fun with this Raxxo. My turn times when I stop playing the Test games I have going on were all exceeding 8+ minutes at EoT and getting worse. And yes I have been using Toffer's Map, is that a crime now? And NO I did not know they were larger than the standard map sizes, silly me fo missing that. Plus I thought it was the best map available. Much better than your map to be quite frank about it.
I posted it to let it be known Not to force anyone to do anything. And as a matter of fact 2 others have also posted the same in varying degrees, SO for one and code99 who is getting similar results to me.
But This Will Be my last post on this subject. I will not mention nor report EoT turn times anymore. This has turned into a Circus act with everyone wanting to play Ring Master. Enough is enough.
Perhaps with Dad in the process of dying from Alzhiemer's I've been a bit scattered of late. Excuse me please.
It has been pretty much the same size I introduced the script to C2C.
I did change the aspect ratio for all the sizes a year back but I tried to keep the number of plots pretty much unchanged for all the sizes.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
This also may be why I'm a bit more defensive about it than usual. My apologies if you felt I was being harsh towards you. I do wish I had more power to affect change at a faster rate here. I realize it's incredibly frustrating and all the moreso when you feel you don't have much power to change it yourself as well. I promise I'll try to do as much as I can about it in the upcoming pre-v39 release debugging cycle.
I'm also very sorry about your Dad. That sort of thing would destroy anyone's inner peace.
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