Single Player bugs and crashes v38 plus (SVN) - After the 20th of February 2018

[Thunderbrd]

It is not your fault, and principally your save is not corrupt. What TB says about is (I guess) he made one of the calculations for "points to level up", which may result in negative numbers, using C++ unsigned numbers throughout. Therefore when your culture is 361, 1 past the level threshold, the "points to level up" suddenly wraps around to 2^64-1 or so because it cannot be negative if stored as unsigned number.

Well explained. I'll have an update on the SVN in a few minutes.

???
Is it my fault?
Is this save corrupt or what?

No. It was saying I'd figured out the problem - but I didn't have time before I had to leave the house this morning to post the fix, and I found a crashbug to resolve in the process, one which Anq already warned me about but that I didn't realize would do more than just send asserts (warnings) when running the debugger. Found and fixed that too now and tested the other bug I wanted to see if I could address before wrapping up another compile and commit.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

I think maybe they did. Especially when these cuts of raxxo took for example, a 5% bonus of a building down to a 1% bonus. Same for a resource. And did you 1st update with raxxo's SVN commit or was it after his update with T-brd's latest commit? If the SVN Update period included both then definitely yes it did.

But as stated you will over come it quickly. And That is another thing I have to look into and smooth out.

I think the main issue with Writing is that it impacts so many Myth buildings - something in the range of 180 - by replacing their +1 with +1 . If you're aggressive with hunting you can easily have dozens and dozens of Myth buildings, to the point where the smart move is to delay researching Writing as long as possible.

I checked a recent game where I was in the Ancient era, a few tiers short of Writing. My 48 Myth buildings were worth 73.35, while my 6 Elder Councils were worth 21.15.

It would be helpful, I think, to spread out the obsolescence of these buildings to nearby techs, just as LumenAngel mentioned was done with the Stone Tool Maker. There are a handful that are obsoleted at techs like Sedentary Lifestyle and Trade, but much more spreading out could be done.

 

[TaylorItaly]

Thanx for the explanation and your work to fix things!

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think the main issue with Writing is that it impacts so many Myth buildings - something in the range of 180 - by replacing their +1 with +1 . If you're aggressive with hunting you can easily have dozens and dozens of Myth buildings, to the point where the smart move is to delay researching Writing as long as possible.

I checked a recent game where I was in the Ancient era, a few tiers short of Writing. My 48 Myth buildings were worth 73.35, while my 6 Elder Councils were worth 21.15.

It would be helpful, I think, to spread out the obsolescence of these buildings to nearby techs, just as LumenAngel mentioned was done with the Stone Tool Maker. There are a handful that are obsoleted at techs like Sedentary Lifestyle and Trade, but much more spreading out could be done.

DH did take some time to spread some out, as you noted. I don't think it's a bad thing in the design of the mod that we have to consider that a major empowering tech for the growth of tech also comes with a bit of an immediate setback. It creates an interesting quandry... do I go for it and take the hit? Will I be able to compensate for it and do better after I recover and build the new buildings it enables? Am I ahead enough on production to bounce back quickly? Have I so many myths that I won't even compensate it for a long time? Am I underestimating the value of the civic improvements in comparison to the buildings lost and those I could stand to gain? Is it a good time to MAKE a civics change or will I likely be sitting and not taking advantage of that for too long to make it worth it to take writing yet? There are some diplomatic benefits... including the ability to trade techs if I have that option on and others have this tech as well, so is it time for me to start getting into the tech trade race or am I too far ahead that I won't be able to make use of that factor yet?

There are a lot of things to weigh out when considering whether to go for writing or delay it and the strategic choice to do so is difficult and yet intensely meaningful. It can easily be misjudged.

So I say it is a feature that it should include such a major setback, NOT a bug. Much like on Beeline Stings (which I really want to get the AI up to speed on) how you can get a free tech by entering an era first BUT you make all the ones you skipped a lot more expensive than they would've been. Same kind of quandry. This is just good game design IMO.

 

[strategyonly]

latest dll (SVN) wont even go thru 1 turn, waited over 5 minutes to process, ,, nothing / / /. .

 

[LumenAngel]

SVN 10569
Crime (Graffiti) is a mid-classical era crime but it says it can spawn barbarian Street gang, a modern era units... With just 50 Crime... Not sure my patrols will be able to beat them...

 

[Thunderbrd]

SVN 10569
Crime (Graffiti) is a mid-classical era crime but it says it can spawn barbarian Street gang, a modern era units... With just 50 Crime... Not sure my patrols will be able to beat them...

Shouldn't be able to spawn something that you can't tech qualify for. Let me know if it does though.

 

[Thunderbrd]

latest dll (SVN) wont even go thru 1 turn, waited over 5 minutes to process, ,, nothing / / /. .

Do you have a save? Mine is working.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Shouldn't be able to spawn something that you can't tech qualify for. Let me know if it does though.

Graffiti and Gun rampage both have these tags added to them:
<PropertySpawnUnitClass>UNITCLASS_STREET_GANG</PropertySpawnUnitClass>
<PropertySpawnProperty>PROPERTY_CRIME</PropertySpawnProperty>

Neither should have thiese 2 lines.

But Gangs and Gang Warfare Do Not have these lines at all. These 2 Individual Crimes is where Street gangs are supposed to come in at.

Who ever set these units up put them on the Wrong Individual Crimes in SpecialBuildings_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Graffiti and Gun rampage both have these tags added to them:
<PropertySpawnUnitClass>UNITCLASS_STREET_GANG</PropertySpawnUnitClass>
<PropertySpawnProperty>PROPERTY_CRIME</PropertySpawnProperty>

Neither should have thiese 2 lines.

Why? They were quite intentional. Graffiti used to also be a modern era crime that was introduced at Urban Lifestyle, or whatever the name of that tech is in the now 'Atomic' Era. Also the same tech that Street Gangs are supposed to be tech accessed. Street Gangs are modern inner city drug dealing gangs, not the earlier Prohibition Era Mob.

But it shouldn't matter because it shouldn't actually be possible to spawn those units in cities where the owner doesn't have the tech prereq to train those units.

Crimes were changed a lot since the original assignment of spawn potential.

The reason for Graffiti is primarily to mark territory by gangs. The reason it spawns street gangs is because it makes the youth afraid to walk the streets without some sort of affiliation and in its own way it advertises the lifestyle, as well as designates areas where one might find the contacts needed to join.

Gun rampage would also spawn gang members since many join a gang because some other gang killed someone they cared about and they want revenge.

I'm not saying it can't be changed if things were switched around to have new meanings and tech access. Just explaining why they were assigned that way originally.

 

[LumenAngel]

Thx Thunderbrd

Another glitch/question
At industrialism, quern go obsolete. But all its replacment at this era (Donkey mill, Windmill, Watermill and Ox mill) can't be build with Worldview - Slavery active. So, with slavery, you can't have flour during industrial and early modern ear? Ca we have a Slave mill at least?

 

[JosEPh_II]

hey were quite intentional. Graffiti used to also be a modern era crime that was introduced at Urban Lifestyle,

It was till someone put it back in at it's original Tech. Was that you? Me? or someone else. It's been awhile since I've done much with Individual Crime buildings. And seeing those 2 tags I posted were New to me. I thought all your Criminal units had their own set up and "places/techs" to come into the game with? Not from the Individual Crimes.

Lots of stuff got moved around over the past 2 years by other Modders. And I sure don't remember doing this either.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Thx Thunderbrd

Another glitch/question
At industrialism, quern go obsolete. But all its replacment at this era (Donkey mill, Windmill, Watermill and Ox mill) can't be build with Worldview - Slavery active. So, with slavery, you can't have flour during industrial and early modern ear? Ca we have a Slave mill at least?

Slavery is supposed to be going Obsolete in World View by the time you get to where you are in the game. That is Dancing Hoskuld's intent and design. He is the author of The World View and Slavery, not Thunderbrd.

 

[LumenAngel]

So, if I want slavery after industrialism, just like in some middle-east or african countries, I cant have flour ?
Worldview don't go obsolete, so why "supposed" players will drop them? It's still very effective during modern era...

 

[JosEPh_II]

So, if I want slavery after industrialism, just like in some middle-east or african countries, I cant have flour ?
Worldview don't go obsolete, so why "supposed" players will drop them? It's still very effective during modern era...

PM Dancing Hoskuld for your answers.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Gun rampage would also spawn gang members since many join a gang because some other gang killed someone they cared about and they want revenge.

Hydro had Gun rampage as an Industrial Era thing with the idea of the late 1800's and gunfighters. Otherwise he would've put it on a Modern Era tech when he built these Individual Crime buildings.

You ideas fit Gang and Gang Warfare for this Street Gang implementation/idea.

 

[Thunderbrd]

So, if I want slavery after industrialism, just like in some middle-east or african countries, I cant have flour ?
Worldview don't go obsolete, so why "supposed" players will drop them? It's still very effective during modern era...

I agree with you strongly on this. I've been complaining about slavery being an impediment to resource access as well.

Hydro had Gun rampage as an Industrial Era thing with the idea of the late 1800's and gunfighters. Otherwise he would've put it on a Modern Era tech when he built these Individual Crime buildings.

You ideas fit Gang and Gang Warfare for this Street Gang implementation/idea.

And seeing those 2 tags I posted were New to me. I thought all your Criminal units had their own set up and "places/techs" to come into the game with? Not from the Individual Crimes.

I explained those tags when I implemented them. They're just triggers that go on crime buildings and even some sanctioned crime buildings that make it possible to have such units spawn as Barbarian criminals in the city. If you want to change them over to more tech appropriate crimes for these, that's fine.

 

[strategyonly]

ok this time i did a complete reset of everything, and got a CTD, wont even work with the new SVN.

also retried it again, waited 10 minutes this time, did not even work at all, just stalled??

 

[Thunderbrd]

ok this time i did a complete reset of everything, and got a CTD, wont even work with the new SVN.

also retried it again, waited 10 minutes this time, did not even work at all, just stalled??

Your save had a crazy corruption from a previous bug. I built a quick fix to correct the problem. Even if you can get the game to process through the issue, don't keep playing it. That would only make the problem much much much worse.

A solution will be on the SVN shortly.

 

[strategyonly]

Your save had a crazy corruption from a previous bug. I built a quick fix to correct the problem. Even if you can get the game to process through the issue, don't keep playing it. That would only make the problem much much much worse.

A solution will be on the SVN shortly.

crap. this game took me 3 weeks to get here, darn . . .